Megan Vail - Posted - 01/09/2011:  10:49:46

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Sunday, January 09, 2011 @1:28:30 PM

Hello there! I am a VERY green fiddle player ( not even a year under my belt) but have been graced by great friends to join in their jam sessions. Thier music is all original pieces with a old timey feel, although a few songs are more "up beat". My trouble is although they have written down their guitar chords for me to follow so I primarily just play single string notes but I there are many members of the "band" and so there for a whole lot of a rythem section. I am not particularly looking for a solo but a little help maybe in spicing up changing chords or if the song has 4 measures in A what I could play that wouldn't sound like I was tuning my A string for 4 measures! I do take lessons but since the music is original I'm having a bit of trouble filling in between the lines....Any suggestions out there before they stop telling me when practice is!! Thanks

fidnaz - Posted - 01/09/2011:  11:48:23

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A good next step would be to learn some arpeggios---- playing the three notes in a chord one at a time. That and the double stops where you play two of the three notes together as a partial chord. If they are writing in the guitar chords for you already, then you just need to figure out the other two notes in that given chord and find them on the fiddle.

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 01/09/2011:  11:50:22

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Well .... you have to understand how a chord is made up to play one or alter one. You can usually only play two notes at a time on a fiddle. Sooo. Playing any two notes of the chord at a time is the way to persue what you are asking about. Chords have three or more notes, most times in Folk type music the 1-3-5 notes of the given scale relevant to the chord being played. Example In a C scale a C chord 1- 2- 3-4-5-6-7-1 is C-E-G .....
C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C
1 3 5
Mel Bay has a good book on Fiddle Chords. Megan Lynch has a good course on fills and another on Kick offs.
THere is no simple answer here . Chords can be played in any order of degree, meaning, the 1 or 5 or 3 can be first last. Minor chords have a flat third, fiddles are tuned in fifths so noting two strings with one finger gives you a 1-5 chord, suitable for use anywhere as it has no third and you play the 1 on the bottom, as the low note, use open strings as well. THis can go on forever I'm still learning chording and harmonies. I'm in my tenth year. If I said a bunch of stuff you already know it is in an effort to help and not offend.... Play Long and Often.....R/

Bart - Posted - 01/09/2011:  12:07:15

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I have liked this book, and the author is active here on FHO. You might find it helpful for exactly what you're asking. I am a beginner, also, with about a year under my belt. This book has been just the right level for me to start improvising more effectively.

melbay.com/product.asp?ProductID=98057

fiddlepogo - Posted - 01/09/2011:  15:03:41

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There are simple "broken" chords you can learn on fiddle, and when you play them on the low strings (G & D strings),
you can put a shuffle rhythm on them. I do this all the time at jams.
It helps if you know and can "read" the guitarists chord positions... and helps if they play without a capo.
Anyway, once you get good at shuffling on the chords, you can actually play RHYTHM fiddle-
you can help tighten up a jam that has too many guitarists where some of them are starting to wander off beat because it sounds so muddy.
If you are the only fiddle, they WILL be able to hear you, and if you can lay down a strong rhythm, it will tighten things up.

Most of the broken (partial) chords played on the G and D strings involve the index finger (on what would be the "2nd fret" if a fiddle had frets)
or the third finger (on the fourth fret if a fiddle had frets), or even open strings.

1. G & D open = partial "G" chord
2. 1st finger "barred" across "2nd fret = partial A chord
3. 1st finger on "2nd fret" of G string + open D = partial D chord (note- you now have the 3 main chords for the key of D!)
4. 1st finger on "2nd fret" of D string + open G = partial C or Em chord (you now have the 3 main chords for the key of G, and
even raggy progressions like Redwing if done in G)

There are more of course, but that should get you started.

Add the broken chord for E, and you will have the three main chords for the key of A,
add the broken chord for F, and you will have the three main chords for the key of C.

When I play rhythm fiddle like this, I prefer "Sawshuffle", and "Syncoshuffle" to Nashville Shuffle because they
start on a single stroke, and this keeps the rhythm crisp and tight. I throw in "Smoothshuffle"
for variety and jollies.
See my bowing blogs in my blog archives for explanations, or get the Brad Leftwich DVD and learn
"Tommy's Lick" (Syncoshuffle)
and both versions of Melvin's Lick (Smoothshuffle and Sawshuffle).
Playing these shuffles for rhythm on a broken chord is also a great way to get them smooth and tight so they'll become second nature,
so you can toss them into a fiddle tune without half thinking about it.

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Edited by - fiddlepogo on 01/10/2011 10:50:28

fidnaz - Posted - 01/09/2011:  17:40:13

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quote:

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Originally posted by fiddlepogo

3. 1st finger on "2nd fret" of G string + open E = partial D chord (note- you now have the 3 main chords for the key of D!)

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Very good thought and well explained, but I think item 3 meant to say 2nd fret G string and open D--- that would give you an A and a D note, which is a partial D chord. I do that rhythm shuffle thing, too, but don't always know what I'm doing shuffle-wise, just get a rhythm going on the right two notes.

I need to check the fiddlepogo blog for those shuffle styles next; just exploring my ignorance.

mudbug - Posted - 01/10/2011:  02:05:53

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All very good advice. Also, learn your major scales. If the tune is in A, play little snippits of an A scale with "twiddley stuff" added, i.e. hammer- ons, pull-offs and vibrato. Put in licks where the singer pauses between phrases. Also, "chop" the chords. At trhis point, you will need to learn what fits musically, and where and when it fits. Play around and throw things in and pay attention to how they sound. If it sounds good, it IS good.

fiddlepogo - Posted - 01/10/2011:  10:52:26

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quote:

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Originally posted by fidnaz

quote:

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Originally posted by fiddlepogo

3. 1st finger on "2nd fret" of G string + open E = partial D chord (note- you now have the 3 main chords for the key of D!)

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Very good thought and well explained, but I think item 3 meant to say 2nd fret G string and open D--- that would give you an A and a D note, which is a partial D chord. I do that rhythm shuffle thing, too, but don't always know what I'm doing shuffle-wise, just get a rhythm going on the right two notes.

I need to check the fiddlepogo blog for those shuffle styles next; just exploring my ignorance.

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Thanks, fidnaz- good catch!!!

You're a better proofreader than I am!!!

RobBob - Posted - 01/10/2011:  10:59:41

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It is great to get the opportunity to play with others so early in your fiddling career. The advice above is all good. The Fiddle Hokum Theory maybe a bit beyond you but is a good resource. The Fiddling Handbook for Mel Bay or the Fiddler's Friend from Randy Miller would also be a good place to spend time learning chords, arpeggios and scales. All are fundamentals you will have to understand to be a good fiddler.

fiddlepogo - Posted - 01/10/2011:  11:17:03

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quote:

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Originally posted by mudbug

All very good advice. Also, learn your major scales. If the tune is in A, play little snippits of an A scale with "twiddley stuff" added, i.e. hammer- ons, pull-offs and vibrato. Put in licks where the singer pauses between phrases. Also, "chop" the chords. At trhis point, you will need to learn what fits musically, and where and when it fits. Play around and throw things in and pay attention to how they sound. If it sounds good, it IS good.

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Yes, "hammer-ons"... it's funny, on a fiddle, they are really just slurs, but having learned to do them on guitar and especially banjo, I find they come naturally on fiddle, and it's a cool effect... sort of as if the LEFT hand fingers are bowing the note.
I'm really not sure how to explain it except that it sure helps if you play some clawhammer banjo!!!

What fits.... very good point.

When I'm playing in any group, whether fiddle, acoustic guitar, or electric guitar, I ask myself (or maybe it's gotten so intuitive that I don't actually ask anymore) "What does this particular group NEED???".

Say, as a fiddler, you come into a jam with a bunch of singer/guitarists. And none of them flatpick halfway decently.
Now, if they are reasonably solid on rhythm, you COULD take a melody break. But if they are rhythmically challenged as a group,
I take my cue from whoever is singing the song, and reinforce what they're doing with the "rhythm fiddle" (shuffles on low double stops). If if singer is singing, and especially if they sing soft, I drop down to gentle chops... also if a volume-challenged flatpick guitarist is taking a break (this is usually the case with flatpick guitar)
If the chorus is being sung, and no one is doing a harmony, I try and go for a harmony.
And ALWAYS, I try to control the volume of my playing so it fits the context. Backup playing should never be louder than the lead instrument or voice.

If I came to a jam, and there were lots of competent fiddlers and maybe a banjo player but no guitar, I'd probably play a lot of shuffled low double stops.... or grab a guitar if one was available! (it's nice to play at least two instruments well, because then you have more options). I'd pay careful attention to the fiddlers' phrasing so my backup was reinforcing and not fighting how they were bowing.

I suppose an underlying bit of wisdom is this:
"that would be taking coals to Newcastle!"
Never add to a group what there is already too much of.
Always add something that's missing- find the gap and fill it.
Sometimes the gap is competency. There may be a lot of a certain instrument, but if they are all weak players, they need reinforcement.
One time I came to my Old Time jam, and no guitarists showed up but beginning guitarists.
If I had played fiddle, it could have been torture for me, because they would have been just guessing the chords,
really torture for them too, and torture for the cafe patrons and staff.
I bring my guitar usually to demo chords for new tunes, but this time I just got out the guitar and played
3-chord songs the beginning guitarists could follow. Thankfully that hasn't happened very often or since.