Mike_Fontenot - Posted - 12/22/2009:  16:12:40

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I've been trying to decipher Al Berard's DVD tutorial on the "Acadian Two-Step". It doesn't come with any notation, and I'm trying to transcribe it myself, to better understand it (and to have an easy way to remember it).

It apparently is in the key of A, but the only occurences of G notes in the melody are G-naturals. The chording also uses a G-major chord during those occurrences of the G-natural notes. So I initially transcribed it as A-Mixolydian, with only two sharps, F# and C#. But what is confusing me is that toward the end of (the "A" part of) that tune, the chord used is an E-major, with its big fat G#. I wouldn't expect an A-Mixolydian tune to use an E-major chord. So, I wondered if it should be considered a key of A-major tune, with G-natural accidentals in those sections with the G-major chord. But it seems odd to call the G-naturals ACCIDENTALS, when there are NO G-sharps anywhere in the melody at all. Any advice?

Leon Grizzard - Posted - 12/22/2009:  18:06:23

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Mixo tunes often use both the mixo b7 chord, G in this case, and the V7, E7. A mixo (that's a joke, son) of old and new. And a lot of times, in music in general, a chord will be used with notes not found in the melody. Old Joe Clark is often played with both G and E7 chords, as is Salt River.

mateo - Posted - 12/23/2009:  08:11:22

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When I look at Cajun music, I think of it as borrowing from the Creole traditions which come from the blues. So if you were to apply the "Blues Mode", which we all know deviates from traditional European modes we can accept the G naturals as subbed dom7 chords in the song. Just because it has a flatted 3rd and a flatted 7th in blues does not change the mode. This is the same rule I apply with Cajun.

m.

Mike_Fontenot - Posted - 12/23/2009:  12:40:27

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quote:

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Originally posted by mateo

[...] Just because it has a flatted 3rd and a flatted 7th in blues does not change the mode. [...]

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But would a chord that uses an UN-FLATTED-7th be used in that style of music? For example, key of A, whose scale has a flatted-3rd (C-natural) and a flatted-7th (G-natural), with an E-major chord (that uses a G-sharp). That's the thing that struck me as weird about that Cajun tune.

Mike_Fontenot - Posted - 12/23/2009:  12:48:25

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quote:

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Originally posted by Leon Grizzard

[...] And a lot of times, in music in general, a chord will be used with notes not found in the melody. Old Joe Clark is often played with both G and E7 chords, as is Salt River.

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I 'm not familiar with Salt River, but in the version of Old Joe Clark that I learned, one part is standard A-mixolydian (with flatted-7-chords, but no 5-chords), and the other part is A-major (with 5-chords, but no flatted-7-chords). But the flatted-7-chords and 5-chords aren't mixed within the same part. That's what seemed weird to me about that Acadian Two-Step tune. Also, in the A-major part of OJC, I think I DO play some natural-7 passing notes (G-sharps) in the melody.

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Edited by - Mike_Fontenot on 12/23/2009 13:08:35

Leon Grizzard - Posted - 12/23/2009:  16:04:41

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I think you do in fact see both bVII and V7 chords within the same part fairly often, and this is one of those tunes. In actually looking at Acadian Two Step on YouTube, I agree with Mateo. If I were describing the tune at a band practice, I'd say it's in A, but uses some G chords Here's one of the versions I looked at, in the key of G:

youtube.com/watch?v=A9Cw2p27Hx8

mateo - Posted - 12/24/2009:  09:31:21

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Mike,

I think you would find as you go west out of Louisiana you would find a tendency for fiddlers to play a G# instead of a G nat, which builds the tension of the leading tone back to A, which you find in Western Swing, which being more aligned with jazz, and Cajun being more aligned with Blues. So we look at the b7 in the A chord as an altered chord, deviating from the natural notes of the scale. I have heard some recordings of Major Franklin playing a maj7th where you would expect a dom7th.

So to answer you question. The chord is considered altered and when that chord is played you deviate from the scale, once you go off the A7 chord you return to the major scale ionian mode.

I think the 7th tone of the scale is the most altered tone in music, with the 9th closely following.

Mike_Fontenot - Posted - 12/24/2009:  12:22:01

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Many thanks for your responses.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 12/25/2009:  07:22:35

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In cajun, the diatonic accordion can't play the major third to the V in mixolydian. It's usually either D major accordion playing in A mixo or a C accordion playing in G. So in A mixo the accordion has no G#. It does give it a more blues feel. The fiddle though though sometimes uses a G# when ornamenting on the E chord.
Sometimes the accordion is tuned with a sharper G note, by about 20 cents, to make both the g-b third tight, and the e-b fifth tight. It ends up making tight 7th note for A chord.
Very rare does a cajun mixo tune go to a VII chord. I think because the math doesn't make a very good VII to I chord relation. Listen close to alot of those tunes, where the melody rides on the flat seven note, they are usually still playing a I chord. And then they go to just a plain V chord. Usually leave out the 7th note in the guitar chord. The V, (even with an omitted third) leads back to the I major chord. Our brains fill in the implied leading tone if not there.

This is often used in Old time mixolydian tunes as well, stay on the I chord against the seventh note (G note , A chord), and then play a plain V chord when the melody rides around the fifth, second and fourth (e, b, and d strong notes in the phrase; E chord)

Mike_Fontenot - Posted - 12/25/2009:  12:28:20

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quote:

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Originally posted by alaskafiddler

In cajun, the diatonic accordion can't play the major third to the V in mixolydian. It's usually either D major accordion playing in A mixo or a C accordion playing in G. So in A mixo the accordion has no G#.

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On Al Berard's DVD, he definitely says the chord near the end of the first part is an E (major).

So, does a Cajun accordion allow playing chords simultaneously with the melody? I suspect so. And if so, what chord would the accordion player be playing when Al calls for that E-major chord? If that D-major accordion can't play a G# in the melody, I would doubt that it could play an E-major chord.

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Edited by - Mike_Fontenot on 12/25/2009 12:31:20

alaskafiddler - Posted - 12/25/2009:  23:53:41

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The accordion left hand side only has 2 bass notes and 2 chords - the I and the V. There is no left hand E chord on a D accordion. They can however make a right hand chord, but it just consists of the E and B notes.

Mike_Fontenot - Posted - 12/26/2009:  13:09:13

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quote:

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Originally posted by alaskafiddler

The accordion left hand side only has 2 bass notes and 2 chords - the I and the V. There is no left hand E chord on a D accordion. They can however make a right hand chord, but it just consists of the E and B notes.

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Now, I'm really confused.

I'm assuming that you're saying that the only (left-hand) chords that can be played on that accordion are the 1-chord when playing a D-major tune (D chord) and a 5-chord when playing a D-major tune (A chord). So, when playing an A-Mixolydian tune on that same accordion (which is what I'd call the key of Al's Acadian Two-Step), those same two chords would now be (relative to the new key) the 4-chord (D) and the 1-chord (A).

But if that is true, an accordian player accompanying Al Berard on that tune wouldn't be able to play a chord on that first half-measure (a G chord). That chord seems to be very important in the feel of that tune, and I'm surprised that such a commonly played Cajun tune couldn't be properly accompanied by the accordion. Would the accordion player be able to get the G chord with his right hand instead? I guess that would work, but it seems to be very limiting...the accordion player couldn't accompany himself on that part, because he couldn't simultaneously play both the melody and the G chord with his right hand.

Or, have I misinterpreted what your saying?

Leon Grizzard - Posted - 12/26/2009:  13:48:40

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I found Alaskafiddler's posts very interesting and informative and did a little Googling this morning. Here is a site that explains the Cajun accordian in some detail:

bignick.net/BoxLessons/boxlesson_Index.htm



Here is what he says about chords, and explains some the sort of chaotic or dissonant sound of the Cajun accordian:

"Bass/Chord side - limitations

The bass and chord side of the button box is fairly unsophisticated.

When playing in “C”, you produce a “C” root and “C-Chord” on the push, and, “G” root and “G-Chord” on the pull. That’s it!



Of course, many popular songs use Tonic, Sub-tonic and Dominant chords (I, IV, and V chords). So, you only get two out of three!

In position 2, key of “G” on a “C” box, you get the “I” and “IV” and you’re done!

Frequently the bass side is used as a rhythm section. Depending on key, sometimes the left hand buttons really can’t be used coherently at all .. but that is part of the unique character of this instrument.

For a two-step, the left hand is generally played as: root-chord-root-chord and so on.

The right hand really dictates if you’ll be pushing or pulling the bellows at any given time, so the chords created by the left hand will be what they are, for better or worse!"

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Edited by - Leon Grizzard on 12/26/2009 15:54:09

Mike_Fontenot - Posted - 12/26/2009:  14:18:34

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quote:

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Originally posted by Leon Grizzard
[...]

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WOW! Thanks for that link. I had NO idea that the Cajun accordion was SO different from a piano-accordion. Suddenly, it seems like playing Cajun fiddle just got a little easier!

alaskafiddler - Posted - 12/27/2009:  05:16:09

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The cajun fiddle has been much influenced by what the accordion does, or rather what it can't do. Notice on lots of those A tunes, where it would go to the E chord the accordion melody is whomping down hard on E or B note (or both)and holding it. And also notice how, because of the need to change directions, lest running out of air, they insert short opposite direction notes, more as a rhythmic ornament. Some fiddle players mimic that accordion sound in their playing.

Leon Grizzard - Posted - 12/27/2009:  07:30:34

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quote:

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Originally posted by alaskafiddler

And also notice how, because of the need to change directions, lest running out of air, they insert short opposite direction notes, more as a rhythmic ornament. Some fiddle players mimic that accordion sound in their playing.

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By that, do you mean something other than what I think of as the classic Cajun bowstroke like Don Rich is doing here? (I know Don Rich ain't the real deal, but it illustrates the bowing clearly.)

youtube.com/watch?v=gZIzsDN_fD...e=related

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Edited by - Leon Grizzard on 12/27/2009 17:56:09