drzany - Posted - 11/08/2009:  08:21:39

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Does anybody have a link to a fingering chart/scale/diagram that can be used to mark my fingerboard with tape or white-out, etc? Something I can print out and use as a template on my fiddle. Thanks!

Arlene

drzany - Posted - 11/08/2009:  11:17:31

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Never mind. I found one! :D

alaskafiddler - Posted - 11/08/2009:  13:57:57

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quote:

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Originally posted by drzany

Does anybody have a link to a fingering chart/scale/diagram that can be used to mark my fingerboard with tape or white-out, etc? Something I can print out and use as a template on my fiddle. Thanks!

Arlene

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Careful. That printout may not be that accurate due to many factors, one is the printer, anther is that the distance between your bridge and nut, as well as the height will all factor into how accurate it is. It can be a guideline to get the concept, just realize it probably won't be accurate, you will have to "listen" to what sounds right.

Another method is to just mark where the third finger goes. You can fairly accurately do this one of two ways. One is if the fiddle is in tune, use a tuner if you are not sure, and use one open string and the adjacent string higher in pitch with the third finger will make an octave, which is pretty easy to hear and so you mark that spot. The other way is to measure the distance between the bridge and the nut, and divide that space into fourths; where one fourth of the string length is (closer to the nut, and three fourths closer to the bridge), that spot is where the third finger goes, but again you want to listen for the octave sound, the string height will affect the exactness.

The idea is to just give your hand a reference point by the third finger, let your other fingers fall naturally (which helps in your hole), and hear where the notes should be, (which helps develop your ear) This develops your ear to finger memory, rather than your eye to finger memory. The paper should at most just be used to give the concept of where the fingers go, but you don't really need it.

George

My friends tell me not to give up my day job - They know I'm unemployed, what are they telling me?

drzany - Posted - 11/08/2009:  14:19:15

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Thanks for the great input George.. :D

Actually, I found a true to size template in a book/cd fiddle instruction book, marking the four finger positions...didn't know it had it in there. I made some real thin "frets" with blue painters tape and placed them according to the template. So far, when I play along with the cd it sounds good. I'm so new at this, and I was having a real challenge with trying to find the notes and keeping my bow strings flat and in the sweet spot, all at the same time. My border collie had her paws over her ears and the cats disappeared every time I tried to learn something... :P My plan is to let go of the markings when my bowing becomes more instinctual. What has been giving me some frets is playing on a single string consistently, but that's improving, especially since I adjusted my bow tension a little. The book I got on Amazon, because of all of the 5-star reviews, and I must say it makes things really fun. It's Wayne Erbsen's "Old Time Fiddle for the Complete Ignoramus". The CD is great. I would highly recommend it for someone like me who has no prior experience. I can see how this can become addictive! :D

BanjoBrad - Posted - 11/08/2009:  17:25:37

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drzany-

That is a great first book for old-time fiddle. One of it's strongest points is the fact that you can learn notation at the same time, with just a bit of work. I also like the tab method Wayne uses in the book, probably the best fiddle tab I've seen.

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drzany - Posted - 11/08/2009:  18:17:01

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Yes, I find his tab method so user friendly. I wanted to just try to start trying to start trying to play the fiddle, and I'm not ready or sure about taking on musical notation at the same time. His tabs are sooo easy to read and follow. So, I gain the benefit of some instant gratification, which I think is so helpful in diving into this strange and beautiful new world. :D

alaskafiddler - Posted - 11/08/2009:  18:50:26

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One of the toughest things often for beginning fiddlers is ALL of the stuff at once. Finding the fingering, the intonation, then all the bow stuff, the rhythm and then just how music and fiddle tunes are constructed. Many of us forget how hard it is to do it ALL just to start. I never went through ALL of that, because I started from playing other instruments and had much of it in place.

good luck

Dick Hauser - Posted - 11/09/2009:  07:13:58

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The diagram can give you an idea where the notes are, but may not work correctly on your fiddle. I spend most of my time playing my 2 favorite fiddles. The intonation on the "A" and "D" strings is not identical on both fiddles. This condition is especially noticeable when I play double stops above the first 2 positions.

I think your playing would be better served is you had a recording of a very good player playing scales, and you practiced scales by playing along with the recording. This will train your ear to recognize the sound of each note. And, your noting will gradually become much more accurate. You can start practicing shifting positions as well.

I had listmember Diane Gillenwater create me a CD with her playing one octave scales and 2 octave scales. I play the scales using the Amazing Slow Downer Software and put the speed where I want it. Start out practicing scales at a moderate speed. When a scale starts sounding pretty good, play the scale at a slower speed. Slower is harder.
Playing scales this way does wonders for your intonation and bow control.

gulfguy

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Edited by - Dick Hauser on 11/09/2009 07:15:06

drzany - Posted - 11/09/2009:  07:54:26

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Thanks Dick! When I do (try ) play, I'm playing along with the CD that came with the book I mentioned above. Then I try it without the CD. It does give me two tracks of the scales with two different speeds, and my notes seem to match what's being played. I'll have to check out that software, though. I'm also going to start up some lessons real soon, too.

ACK!!! Fiddle-dee-DEE!!!

bj - Posted - 11/09/2009:  09:22:05

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Do what Dick says. You can also use the Cello Drones playing behind you to "tune in" your intonation.

navarrorivermusic.com/cello_drones.php

The problem with the tapes is that if your bridge shifts (and bridges DO shift a bit every time you tune!) the tapes will eventually be wrong.

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Peghead - Posted - 12/15/2009:  12:24:31

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I have an electric fiddle with a fingerboard that has small LED's that come on like a landing strip to show where the good notes are so I can see them on stage in the dark. The lights are programmed to change with the chords. The "in" notes are pink, the blues notes are, well - blue. No more annoying scales for me.

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Edited by - Peghead on 12/15/2009 12:32:19

Henry George - Posted - 12/15/2009:  14:43:35

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Greg, is that some kind of learner's fiddle, I 've never heard of it, can I see it in action .......?

hyldemoer - Posted - 12/15/2009:  15:32:18

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Fret markings might get you into the ball park of the correct note but not exactly without benefit of your ear.

A comment I've heard at a beginner's class was "how can my note be too sharp? My finger is exactly on the tape."
With that the person pressed even harder sending the note farther out of tune and engaging muscles in his hand and whole body far harder than necessary.

Gently touch those strings while keeping the fingers always casually curled over the strings.

LED to see the frets?
For ear training I've found it best for my eyes to be closed. There's less clutter to be distracted by.

alt_2ooning - Posted - 12/15/2009:  19:58:29

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Here is a link to mandolin fret spacing ....the application can be used for theoretical stop lengths to determine where to finger a note.

stewmac.com/fretcalc.html
Standard 4/4 violin scale length is 330 mm +- 1 or 2 mm ....... choose twelve frets as that will be 30 mm beyond where the neck meets the upper bout and subsequently the next octave.

Position the bridge face/front so that it is aligned with the two notches on the inside of the ff holes....tilt the bridge backward so that it forms a 90 degree angle between the back of the bridge and the top/belly of the fiddle. Measure from the front face of the bridge to the front face of the nut ....use this measurement to determine scale....it should be near 330 mm. ....apply the data to Stewmac's calculator ....voila a measurement printout ....hope this helps.

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Edited by - alt_2ooning on 12/18/2009 20:14:58

Peghead - Posted - 12/16/2009:  06:16:58

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Hi Henry, I'm sorry for the ruse, I was leading you on. You're not that gullible though, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see such a thing. I've given it some thought it's quite possible, not a stretch at all given the current technology. Better not steal my idea, the patent is pending. Greg

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Edited by - Peghead on 12/16/2009 06:26:23

mudbug - Posted - 12/21/2009:  12:02:00

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Actually, someone did LED's on an electric guitar fretboard, maybe 10 years? ago. Can't remember the brand, but it was during the "shredding" phase. You could program the key and mode, and VOILA!, you could practice your modes and then turn it off for gigs.

Then Grunge came along and killed Shred. Poor Shred! Poor, Poor Shred!

EdPearlman - Posted - 12/23/2009:  08:49:28

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I don't like the fingerboard markings. I find that people can get the finger spacing more confidently by muscle memory, keeping in mind that on the fiddle we work with finger widths, and normally two fingerwidths are covered by each finger. That way we just have to get used to which two fingers on each string are placed touching each other, and the others are a whole finger width apart. I've worked with students for 30 years on this and after writing this stuff out countless times, I finally figured out a way to represent it all connected together on one slide rule, which I'm happy to say, was considered unique enough to be patented. You can see about it at this link edpearlman.net/fingerfinder Not trying to merely advertise, trying to help! I feel strongly that everyone can get a sense of the fingering this way, without relying on those sticky strips across the fingerboard. Feedback welcome!

jehanna - Posted - 12/24/2009:  14:48:52

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You won't need them long. You will soon learn to use your ears. You can't really see them anyway , they will start falling off and you won't even notice.

kerouac - Posted - 01/05/2010:  14:23:18

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I've use Ed's finger finder and it is quite helpful! It shows you how to position your fingers depending on the key of the tune. I definitely suggest it!