OTJunky - Posted - 09/18/2009:  16:33:49

---

quote:

---

From FIDDLE-L

Subject: Archival Recording of Bob Walters
From: John Everist <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Fiddle Players' Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:37:04 -0700
Content-Type: text/plain

Dwight Lamb and Bill Peterson announce the release
of the first recording on their new
record label "Missouri Valley Music". The double cd
features 80 tunes of legendary
Nebraska fiddler, Bob Walters. The tunes are from
the home recordings and collections of Dwight and
Clarence Lamb. Extensive liner
notes by Dwight and Mark Wilson
can be downloaded from disc 1 in PDF format. Price
of the double cd is $20 and includes
postage and handling. You can order by e mail missourivalleymusic@sio.midco.net
or mailing to: Missouri Valley Music 511 South
Pleasant, Canton, South Dakota 57013.
Make checks or money orders to Missouri Valley
Music, or you can be invoiced through
pay pal.

---

Bob Walters might've been the most influential mid-western fiddler of the 20th century - influencing many of the better known Missouri fiddlers, (No offense Chirps. The 21st century is all yours..)

And Bob Walters' tunes are scattered all over R. P. Christeson's tune books.

I'm ordering this one..

--OTJ
"I can barely fiddle on four strings. Why would I want five?"

---

Edited by - OTJunky on 09/18/2009 16:35:05

woodwiz - Posted - 09/18/2009:  16:48:39

---

I've got a lot of recordings of Missouri fiddlers, and an awful lot of them from all over the state do indeed have tune settings that are very close to Walters' versions. I don't like his fiddling all that much, what I've heard of it, but he sure knew lots of tunes. I enjoy Stinnett's playing a lot more, and many of the settings are very close.

Thanks for the tip. I gave up trying to read Fiddle-L a long time ago.

Michael R
kcstrings.com
"You'll love the way you sound"

"Hey buddy fiddle works great I love it thank u very much for...such a fine violin"
Greg Moore, fiddler, The James King Band thejameskingband.com/

"Thank you for the wonderful violin you made. I've used it on every show I've played since I've got it." John Hartford

OTJunky - Posted - 09/18/2009:  17:00:32

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by woodwiz

I don't like his fiddling all that much, what I've heard of it, but he sure knew lots of tunes. I enjoy Stinnett's playing a lot more, and many of the settings are very close.

---

I dunno - I doubt that even Mr. Walters would be offended by this.

Nobody practiced and played more than Stinnett - he pretty much devoted his life to it. We may never have another hornpipe fiddler who can play like him...

--OTJ
"I can barely fiddle on four strings. Why would I want five?"

lrhamp - Posted - 09/19/2009:  02:20:26

---

Tnx for the info OTJ. I have a lot of his music---- but 80???? It's a buy for me.

lrhamp

Fiddler - Posted - 09/19/2009:  05:58:49

---

WOW!! Thanks! I like Walter's playing alot and enjoy listening to the recordings of him I have. I'm sure that this has influenced my playing in ways I don't fully understand. However, I'm with woodwiz, of the recorded Ozark fiddlers, there are a few that really "speak" to me and lights up the pleasure center of my brain, Stinnett is one of them - Walters another. (...and there are others, too!)

Thanks for the tip, OTJ!!

______________________________________________________________
fiddle music - "... it's for the uplifting of people. It's the highest, the most high, most high, most high...'' Marcus Martin.

bubbaschnell - Posted - 09/19/2009:  10:24:26

---

I think the major difference between these recordings and Christeson's is the backup. While I loved and listened to the Old Time Fiddler's Repertory lp to death, the Lamb home recordings of Walter have many solo settings and really fine guitar accompaniment. I always found Christeson's piano backup to be a bit stiff, for my taste. The result is a much broader portrait of Uncle Bob's stylisitc capabilities. His ornamentation ranks with the greats of any genre. These recordings give us a chance to hear Walter in a new light and the result is simply stunnning. Kudos to Bill Peterson and John Everist for their tireless efforts in the promotion of midwest fiddling, and to Dwight Lamb for generously sharing them with us. This is a project of major scope and deserves the support of any who enjoy truly fine fiddling.

Glenn - Posted - 09/19/2009:  18:36:27

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fiddler

WOW!! Thanks! I like Walter's playing alot and enjoy listening to the recordings of him I have. I'm sure that this has influenced my playing in ways I don't fully understand. However, I'm with woodwiz, of the recorded Ozark fiddlers, there are a few that really "speak" to me and lights up the pleasure center of my brain, Stinnett is one of them - Walters another. (...and there are others, too!)

Thanks for the tip, OTJ!!

______________________________________________________________
fiddle music - "... it's for the uplifting of people. It's the highest, the most high, most high, most high...'' Marcus Martin.

---

I may be wrong about this but I'm pretty sure that Stinnett and Walters were from the northern part of Missouri near Nebraska were the geography is plains, as opposed to the Ozark fiddlers from the south of the state who exhibit a stronger southern influence (Bob Holt, Fred Stoneking)?. The stylistic difference is quite marked. The northern guys have more of a Canadian and french influence in my ears and didn't seem to ever really cross-tune or go for the drones so much.

bsed - Posted - 09/19/2009:  18:53:02

---

Well, that's my general understanding too. Except that I think Walters was actually from just across the border in Nebraska.

Just call me Dwight.

OTJunky - Posted - 09/19/2009:  19:06:27

---

That's right - Walters was from Nebraska.

And I probably wouldn't put Bob Holt's fiddling in the same category as that of Fred Stoneking and his dad, Lee Stoneking. I'd say that Holt was definitely an Ozark fiddler whle the Stonekings were "Little Dixie" style fiddlers. Fred grew up and learned to fiddle from his dad on a farm just north of Clinton, MO. Neither of them played at the break-neck dance tempos that Bob Holt used when pushing dancers and - probably because of Holt's focus on dance fiddling - there's not that much overlap in the recorded repertoire of Holt and the two Stonekings.

I think that in the 60's Missouri was about as close as it gets to being Heaven on Earth for fans of American Old Time Fiddling.

--OTJ
"I can barely fiddle on four strings. Why would I want five?"

---

Edited by - OTJunky on 09/19/2009 19:08:09

Fiddler - Posted - 09/19/2009:  21:28:04

---

Yes, I am aware that Walters was from Nebraska and that he and Stinnett (and others) did not play like those from further south in Missouri and northern Arkansas. I guess I have tended to group them with Ozark fiddlers (although technically it is probably incorrect) due to their inclusion in Christensen's books and field recordings. And, yes, their repertoire was a bit different, too.

Regardless, there was, and still is, a bunch of great fiddling going on out there!

______________________________________________________________
fiddle music - "... it's for the uplifting of people. It's the highest, the most high, most high, most high...'' Marcus Martin.

clawhammerer - Posted - 09/30/2009:  08:40:56

---

I just picked up my copy of this CD set from the post office yesterday and the fiddling/tunes are great! The packaging is very well done. The inside cover only has the tune number/name listed. I wondered why the liner notes were on a PDF file on CD 1 until I saw there were almost 40 pages of notes...all great stuff. On the recording of "Lost Indian" it's funny how "Uncle Bob" comments to Dwight Lamb how the "modern young fiddlers" don't play much with their fiddle tuned to the A chord.

If you like Missouri/Midwest/Northern Kentucky fiddling you'll really like this stuff.

joshj

bsed - Posted - 09/30/2009:  18:28:36

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fiddler

Yes, I am aware that Walters was from Nebraska and that he and Stinnett (and others) did not play like those from further south in Missouri and northern Arkansas. I guess I have tended to group them with Ozark fiddlers (although technically it is probably incorrect) due to their inclusion in Christensen's books and field recordings. And, yes, their repertoire was a bit different, too.

---

This is just a seat of my pants answer, but the reason I wouldn't group a fiddler like Walters with a fiddler like Holt is that Walters played a much notier style (like his hornpipes). Holt's style was to play tunes with very few notes to them, so they were very rhythmic and percussive when played very fast.

Just call me Dwight.

woodwiz - Posted - 09/30/2009:  19:39:45

---

Here are a couple of samples of Holt's style:

fiddle.missouri.org/people/pro...person=14

Michael R
kcstrings.com
"You'll love the way you sound"

"Hey buddy fiddle works great I love it thank u very much for...such a fine violin"
Greg Moore, fiddler, The James King Band thejameskingband.com/

"Thank you for the wonderful violin you made. I've used it on every show I've played since I've got it." John Hartford

wooliver - Posted - 10/01/2009:  07:42:18

---

Bob Walter's from Tekamah Neb. across the river from Onawa, Ia. where Red lives. Tekamah is in Burt County. Hence the name Burt County Breakdown. I don't know if Lee ever played it but Fred Stoneking plays and has recorded Burt County BD. These guy's all know/knew each other, but it's all how it comes out. They all knew Cyril.

Never met Cyril. Only heard stories and video. Thank goodness we have that too.

---

Edited by - wooliver on 10/01/2009 07:47:02

clawhammerer - Posted - 10/01/2009:  11:00:57

---

Just thought I'd mention it, since every time I mention Missouri/mid-west style fiddle someone always comments on the pump organ or piano accompaniment...Some will be glad to know that there is only a handful of tracks on this CD that have that style backup. Most tracks have good solid guitar backup.

joshj

charlie.walden - Posted - 10/20/2009:  11:05:30

---

Don't think I'd call the Stonekings "Little Dixie" fiddlers, either geographically or stylistically. They were Ozarkers, just a different stripe than Bob Holt. See this wiki article:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Dixie_(Missouri)

Clinton is in Henry County, definitely Ozarks.

Little Dixie fiddlers in MO would be folks like Pete McMahan, Taylor McBaine, Jake Hockemeyer, Vee Latty (all deceased). There are some good folks around Columbia playing mostly Little Dixie tunes, most notably Howard Marshall & John White.

Charlie Walden

OTJunky - Posted - 10/20/2009:  19:23:28

---

Well - I'll admit to being unclear about this "Little Dixie" thing and wouldn't mind being straightened out about it.

I've been to Clinton several times though - driving there both from Springfield and from Kansas City - and I can say for sure that from there you won't see much of anything that could be called a mountain no matter which direction you look so it's hard to see how that area could be considered part of the Ozarks. It's all flat farming country.

But the topography might have nothing to do with the region's fiddle style.

I think Howard Marshall - who's a member here - posted once that he considered McMahan to be a "hornpipe" fiddler. This was in response to a post wondering about the source of the quote, "I ain't afraid of no hornpipe fiddler" attributed to Taylor McBain when asked if he was concerned about competing against Cyril Stinnett. Marshall observed that the quote probably couldn't have been attributed to McMahan because McMahan was himself a hornpipe fiddler.

Anyhow, I'm sure there's nothing to be had from my arguing with either you or Howard Marshall about Missouri fiddling styles since there's no question that the two of you know more about it than I do.

Maybe if you can give me some examples of "Little Dixie" tunes that'd be helpful.

--OTJ
"I can barely fiddle on four strings. Why would I want five?"

Eric Sprado - Posted - 10/21/2009:  19:09:30

---

Woodwiz: I'm with you on FiddleL. I was mentioning on there(several years ago before I dropped it) something about giving one of my workshops on basic improvisation and a member LAMBASTED me for having the nerve to give a workshop given my lack of college training. It hurt my feelings enough that I didn't even reply. I just dropped the site from my computer and,soon after,found FHO. Even though we have had our issues here,they always seem to get fairly resolved and I think some of us have grown as individuals as the result of interactions on this site...... Sorry to babble on as I do sometimes...... Eric

woodwiz - Posted - 10/21/2009:  19:22:15

---

Lotsa college trained fiddlers out of work these days. Lotsa fiddlers with little or no formal training (but lots of skill) making decent money. (Oh, the stories I could tell....)

It's not the level of training that makes a good fiddler, IMHO: it's your skill at entertaining via your playing..

Elitism sux most anywhere you find it, IMO, but it's usually the product of very insecure individuals, and there's no reason to take it personally --- again, IMHO.







Michael R
kcstrings.com
"You'll love the way you sound"

"Hey buddy fiddle works great I love it thank u very much for...such a fine violin"
Greg Moore, fiddler, The James King Band thejameskingband.com/

"Thank you for the wonderful violin you made. I've used it on every show I've played since I've got it." John Hartford

---

Edited by - woodwiz on 10/21/2009 19:28:59

lrhamp - Posted - 10/22/2009:  02:15:30

---

AMEN-----MICHAEL. AND-----NO WAY Clinton is in the OZARKS. In fact, even Springfield barely qualifies.

lrhamp

wooliver - Posted - 10/22/2009:  06:01:03

---

Clinton is off a Northern finger of Truman res.. Truman res. and Lake of the Ozarks are essentially one body of water. But what's with Clinton? Stoneking was from Boliver.

Folks claim Missouri style from Yankton SD to Mountain View, Arkansas. I haven't found a problem with it.

OTJunky - Posted - 10/22/2009:  08:00:50

---

quote:

---

From mustrad.org.uk/articles/stonekin.htm

So you might consider that I was simply raised with the fiddle. My dad, Lee Stoneking, was a farmer. I was born at a little old town by the name of Chilhowee up in Johnson County, Missouri. It's about twelve miles north of Clinton as the crow flies.

---

Presumably these are Fred Stoneking's words...

--OTJ
"I can barely fiddle on four strings. Why would I want five?"

wooliver - Posted - 10/22/2009:  14:27:12

---

OK, i see now.

I just Googled Fred's obit.
i felt it would be tasteless to post links and such.

i missed a chance to ride to Springfield tommorow. i don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

OTJunky - Posted - 10/22/2009:  15:02:20

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by wooliver

Folks claim Missouri style from Yankton SD to Mountain View, Arkansas. I haven't found a problem with it.

---

It's not that there's a problem with it. It's just that Missouri had such a rich and varied fiddling tradition some people have found it helpful to classify the differing Missouri styles into "Ozark", "Little Dixie", and "Missouri Valley".

Here's a short discussion of the differing styles, regions, along with the mention of some Missouri fiddlers.who played in those regional styles.

missourifiddling.com/MO_FID_TR...IONS.htm# Styles of Missouri Fiddling

This web page does place Pete McMahan - and Taylor McBain - among the Little Dixie style fiddlers - as charlie.walden mentioned above - but it doesn't mention the Stonekings.

To my ear the Stonekings' playing is closer to McMahan's and McBain's than it is to Bob Holt's or Cyril Stinnett's - so I've always thought of the Stonekings as Little Dixie style fiddlers.

Just wondering if I'm the only one who thinks that...

--OTJ
"I can barely fiddle on four strings. Why would I want five?"

---

Edited by - OTJunky on 10/22/2009 15:08:47

Feodosia - Posted - 10/23/2009:  08:29:49

---

Well, the Ozark area you're talking about is now my home and its taking some getting used to ...

Normally you think of the flatlands as being at a lower elevation and the mountains rising above the flatlands, right ?

Well, in MO . , the Ozark Mountains is actually a series of plateaus ...... the flatlands are up on the high ground and you drive DOWN to the mountains ...kinda wierd ... Clinton would be on the Salem Plateau I believe.. I am on a flatland plateau too ,elevation 1000 ft ... I drive to my buddy 10 miles away and he is up on the side of a mountain - but his elevation is only like 900 ft ... so I'm actually driving DOWN to his mountainside home - LOL

So if you're driving through the Ozark Mountains ( Ozark Plateau) and all you see is flat land , you instinctively are looking up to try and find Ozark mountains but you don't see any ..... that's because you are driving on the high flat ground ...the " mountains " are below you ! :-)

I think if you drive down to the part of the Ozark Plateau where Martin is located, you can look towards the Missisippi River and see actual flatland that is near sea-level ... so you get more of the traditional feel of being " up " on a mountain there in Mountainview :-)

*****************************************************************************************

Winter's just around the corner .... check out my ice-fiddle !

---

Edited by - Feodosia on 10/23/2009 08:37:24

charlie.walden - Posted - 10/23/2009:  15:13:40

---

missourifiddling.com/MO_FID_TRADITIONS.htm

I'll have to add a few recorded examples to this article in the future. Might help to hear the difference.

OTJunky - Posted - 10/24/2009:  11:46:10

---

I suppose I should add that - if you'd like to hear some really good traditional Missouri fiddling on some real traditional Missouri tunes, you can do that here....

home.comcast.net/~geezer57/TheProject.htm



--OTJ
"I can barely fiddle on four strings. Why would I want five?"

woodwiz - Posted - 10/24/2009:  13:36:58

---

I just listened to Walters' recording of "Good for the Tongue". I take back some of my mild reservations: I gotta learn that tune!

Edit: Found a transcription in Christesons' book. It's a LOT easier than it sounds! Neat tune.

Michael R
kcstrings.com
"You'll love the way you sound"

"Hey buddy fiddle works great I love it thank u very much for...such a fine violin"
Greg Moore, fiddler, The James King Band thejameskingband.com/

"Thank you for the wonderful violin you made. I've used it on every show I've played since I've got it." John Hartford

---

Edited by - woodwiz on 10/26/2009 08:16:42

lrhamp - Posted - 10/24/2009:  14:06:22

---

Charlie really does some good tunes GOOD. We need more sites like this. Good short renditions of Great tunes.

lrhamp

Feodosia - Posted - 10/24/2009:  18:18:42

---

Now that the cooler weather's here , Ive been going up in my attic to weed out stuff , digging around seeing what needs to be thrown away .... and guess what I just found tonight ?

About 6 of those old small 45 records and they say on them
" Lonnie Robertson-Missouri fiddler "

Man, and I don't have anything to play them on ... I'll have to carefully pack them away and
see if I can get access to a turntable some day - LOL

Hi Charlie ... good to see you here

*****************************************************************************************

Winter's just around the corner .... check out my ice-fiddle !

charlie.walden - Posted - 10/25/2009:  13:02:23

---

For playing those Lonnie Robertson 45s get one of those ION USB Turntables. They play in 33 & 45 plus come with software that allow you digitize even your 78s and then convert them to the correct speed after they are in the computer. Works quite well.

lrhamp - Posted - 10/25/2009:  14:39:57

---

Charlie----What Model would you suggest for someone who doesn't play a lot of 45s?

lrhamp

charlie.walden - Posted - 10/25/2009:  14:43:20

---

Luther,

Do you want to just listen to them or transfer to digital?

Charlie

lrhamp - Posted - 10/26/2009:  02:35:06

---

Charlie----Not just sure. I'll try to investigate them a little on my own and see what is out there. I haven't keep up with all the technology in the last 10-15 years. I need to do some home work first.

lrhamp

Feodosia - Posted - 10/26/2009:  07:41:25

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Glenn




I may be wrong about this but I'm pretty sure that Stinnett and Walters were from the northern part of Missouri near Nebraska were the geography is plains, as opposed to the Ozark fiddlers from the south of the state who exhibit a stronger southern influence (Bob Holt, Fred Stoneking)?. The stylistic difference is quite marked. The northern guys have more of a Canadian and french influence in my ears and didn't seem to ever really cross-tune or go for the drones so much.

---

I used to go to a fiddle festival up in Ontario and hear some really good northern fiddlers up there ... notey, no use of drones , hornpipes with no dots or triplets,etc.
And I remember thinking , hey , some of these guys sound like Missouri fiddlers ....and I bet they shared some of the same tunes. Must have been some cross-pollination going on back and forth across the border

Thanks for the USB turntable tip , Charlie !

---

Edited by - Feodosia on 10/26/2009 07:42:33

tiquose - Posted - 10/26/2009:  07:48:28

---

I'm hinting for for the CDs for Christmas.

Janet
"Curiosity killed the cat but satisfaction brought it back." -my grandmother, Bertha Morgan Nelson

charlie.walden - Posted - 10/26/2009:  09:05:12

---

By the way, Good for the Tongue is in Cole's/Ryan's Mammoth.

woodwiz - Posted - 10/26/2009:  11:26:15

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by charlie.walden

By the way, Good for the Tongue is in Cole's/Ryan's Mammoth.

---

It's a lot easier than it sounds. Only took about an hour to memorize it, and I'm a slow learner!

One of those tunes that make you look good!

Michael R
kcstrings.com
"You'll love the way you sound"

"Hey buddy fiddle works great I love it thank u very much for...such a fine violin"
Greg Moore, fiddler, The James King Band thejameskingband.com/

"Thank you for the wonderful violin you made. I've used it on every show I've played since I've got it." John Hartford

OTJunky - Posted - 10/26/2009:  12:03:14

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by woodwiz

quote:

---

Originally posted by charlie.walden

By the way, Good for the Tongue is in Cole's/Ryan's Mammoth.

---

It's a lot easier than it sounds. Only took about an hour to memorize it, and I'm a slow learner!

One of those tunes that make you look good!

---

That's assuming you can already play in Bb...

--OTJ
"I can barely fiddle on four strings. Why would I want five?"

charlie.walden - Posted - 10/29/2009:  08:59:39

---

Tune No. 30 on the 2nd disk "Unknown Hornpipe" is Smith's HP and appears in Cole's 1000. I didn't have a recordings of Walters playing this, but Cyril Stinnett played it and to my thinking it is one of the toughest Bb tunes he played.

Charlie

Feodosia - Posted - 10/29/2009:  11:38:31

---

As an addicted fiddle note-writer , it warms my heart to read that some of oldtime fiddling's greatest practioners have been using written note sources like Cole's for generations ....anything good enough for Cyril Stinnett is good enough for me ... man, that dude could play a mean fiddle

wooliver - Posted - 10/29/2009:  13:04:14

---

A fellow told me Cyril was a man of few words, but said, "I may not be the best fiddler in the world, but those that can beat me, don't run around in bunches."
LOL
I hear he also said something like, "a <fellow> probably can't get too much practice." What else is there to say?

charlie.walden - Posted - 10/30/2009:  13:55:06

---

Pretty certain Cyril couldn't read music, but Walters could.

woodwiz - Posted - 11/25/2009:  19:41:41

---

Just received the CDs today. Definitely worth the money if you are interested in MO Valley tunes.