Hey folks. One of my fiddles, I like almost everything about it, but the neck is too thick for me and noticeably different than my other fiddles. I bought this fiddle when I was just starting to play and such subtleties were not so apparent to me.
Is making a neck thinner a thing? Is it considered a major repair, not something to be considered for a fiddle of modest value?
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Originally posted by dorymanHey folks. One of my fiddles, I like almost everything about it, but the neck is too thick for me and noticeably different than my other fiddles. I bought this fiddle when I was just starting to play and such subtleties were not so apparent to me.
Is making a neck thinner a thing? Is it considered a major repair, not something to be considered for a fiddle of modest value?
Reshaping a neck is common. You might even consider it as a part of setup, as it directly affects playability of the instrument, and to a small degree, sound.
The shape of the neck and its thicknesses at nut and heel, along with its fullness at the extremities, have an immediately noticeable effect on the way the violin feels when you pick it up and when you're playing. A poorly shaped neck can make a player want to put the violin down and a well-shaped one can make a player want to keep playing. Tschu Ho Lee, the former director of the Chicago school of violin making, once told me that a player begins forming an opinion of a violin as soon as he picks it up. Even before playing a single note, the violin's feel in the hands, its balance, and its weight all make an impression, whether that's conscious or subconscious to the player, and that initial tactile impression can be enough to make a player put a violin back down without even playing it if something feels wrong. It's incumbent upon the new maker to make violins with this in mind. And I would add to Mr. Lee's remarks that for the restorer or repairman, adjusting the instrument with these principles in mind is equally important.
Reshaping needs to be done properly; once you remove wood, there's no going back. If a neck is too thin or too poorly shaped to allow for correction, you then need a neck graft, or if the instrument is inexpensive, a different neck/scroll. If you're doing this work, it means the neck will have to be sealed and stained again after the work is done and the chin and heel will need to be retouched.
The top, back, rib structure, and scroll are considered original parts that should not be altered on a fine violin, but the handle of the neck is not treated the same way, which is why a grafted neck does not affect the value of the violin unless the work is done poorly. In fact, there was a time when one of the premier shops in the country bought pristine violins by a major Italian maker and grafted the necks before selling them--the owner of the shop thought the look of a graft would impress players and would make them believe that the violins were valuable because they had been given this repair, which was considered the pinnacle of repair difficulty by many. There's an old myth that one can tell a violin is valuable if it's had a neck graft.
If your neck doesn't feel right, it's worth having it looked at to see if changes make sense. Playability is critical at any level. Your budget may affect the decision to reshape, but from a functional perspective, reshaping an oversized neck is always worthwhile. I spent a long time working at a shop that supplied inexpensive violins to other shops throughout the country (among other things). Every new instrument had its neck reshaped if it was large, no matter how cheap it was. It made that big of a difference.
I find neck shape, width and thickness to be critical for playing comfortably. I have small hands, and a wide, thick neck makes playing difficult. I have found reshaping a neck to have minimal impact on tone, or volume. Just my opinion.
I've yet to find differences in fiddle neck shapes to be troublesome. I adjust within moments...perhaps because I already possess a closet full of guitars, each of which seems to feature a differently shaped neck. To be sure, though, the strings can't be too far above the fingerboard.
My 2nd fiddle was a genuine Irish made one. It has all sorts of odd ball dimensions and germaine here, a 2 piece neck, split the long way. It was really thick and clunky.
And I also have run across fiddles where that neck graft Rich mentioned was actually a scored line in the neck to make it LOOK like it had a grafted scroll. I was a luthier apprentice for a short time in my youth to the guy who serviced the Mid-Hudson Philharmonic string section- he showed me one of these and warned me about them. He also said a scroll graft was like the most expensive thing he would do to a violin, being so time consuming.
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Originally posted by Lonesome FiddlerI've yet to find differences in fiddle neck shapes to be troublesome. I adjust within moments...perhaps because I already possess a closet full of guitars, each of which seems to feature a differently shaped neck. To be sure, though, the strings can't be too far above the fingerboard.
I thought I was the same, but I guess I found my limits!
Some players are fine with a variety of shapes and thicknesses for the neck, but many will complain if it is even half a millimeter too thick.
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Originally posted by The Violin BeautifulSome players are fine with a variety of shapes and thicknesses for the neck, but many will complain if it is even half a millimeter too thick.
Yes, in this case, it's not just the thickness, but also the shape. It is less round and more elliptical than my other fiddles. It digs into my hand and starts to hurt (more like an ache or cramp) after about fifteen minutes of playing.
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Originally posted by dorymanquote:
Originally posted by The Violin BeautifulSome players are fine with a variety of shapes and thicknesses for the neck, but many will complain if it is even half a millimeter too thick.
Yes, in this case, it's not just the thickness, but also the shape. It is less round and more elliptical than my other fiddles. It digs into my hand and starts to hurt (more like an ache or cramp) after about fifteen minutes of playing.
There are two main schools of thought about shape. Many makers use a semicircular profile, but some prefer a more elliptical or v-shaped profile, arguing that it makes the neck feel less bulky.
If things are within reasonable bounds, most players will be comfortable with either shape, but as the thickness decreases, the v-shaped neck can make the hand cramp more easily, and as the thickness increases, the round shape can feel hard to get around as you shift.
Two other details that are rarely considered are the shape of the neck at the chin and shape at the heel. These make a noticeable difference for players in dexterity of shifting and comfort.
