I've been playing the fiddle for almost two years (with 2-3 months' breaks each year in late summer, when life does not allow me the freedom to have fun). It is the first musical instrument that I ever made meaningful progress on. I haven't ever had a teacher, because I live in an extremely rural area, and that just isn't a thing here, and until very recently we also didn't have adequate internet for Zoom-type lessons. I started by playing through the first few Suzuki books, because I knew how to read music from grade school, and with this approach, I was able to stumble my way into basic knowledge of the fingerboard and posture and whatnot. (I did not learn Suzuki songs by ear. I did not have a good enough sense of pitch to learn from ear from the beginning, and was very reliant on Intonia for a long while to verify my intonation. Things eventually got better, and I'm able to walk without that crutch a lot more now.) Constant hurdles aside, at this point, I have not permanently destroyed any of my shoulder or wrist nerves, I can now make a select few sounds on the fiddle that I don't hate, and I still try to spend as much free time as possible practicing, so I think I'm essentially on the right path to figuring out this godforsaken instrument (which I adore, but let's be real, the violin is a special kind of nightmare). Most importantly, the longer I do it, the more fun I have doing it, which is the opposite of most things I do, so that's been a nice bonus.
Near the end of 2024, I could see on Intonia recordings that my intonation had gotten more consistent and accurate, so I tried learning a few slower bluegrass melodies by ear, and was delighted to discover that my sense of pitch had developed enough that I could do it without too much suffering. Knowing that I could now learn by ear, I started learning old-time fiddle music, and I found it to be surprisingly fun and accessible, and some techniques I really struggled with while trying to learn classical-leaning songs suddenly improved, especially my control over the bow and double stop intonation. After a few months of exploring the bizarre and remarkable world of old-time bowing, I have also started to develop a sense of rhythm, which is not something I ever had before. I've now explored various cross-tunings and feel reasonably not-terrified of them. I'm also trying hard to force myself outside of first position when I have the wherewithal (not that this is much of a thing in old-time, but it's still something I want to be able to do). I understand how chords are assembled, can to some degree put together a sensible chord progression, and can take a string of chords and make a resolving melody out of it, but my music theory background doesn't go much beyond that point.
Recently, my significant other started picking up the banjo -- more specifically, clawhammer. It's the first instrument he's made significant progress with, as well, and he's now a few months in and seems to be committed to the struggle/glory of learning a new thing. He currently can't read sheet music, and has no real grasp of music theory yet, but I can see the roots of that knowledge starting to take hold. He first started trying to learn with tablature, but with my (probably annoying) insistence, it seems he's been trying to move to learning primarily by ear, with some help from tablature as needed. We're both exploring some of the material on Peghead Nation, and that's currently our primary source of information on old-time technique and tunes.
Tangential wall of text aside, the point is, we would like to figure out how to make original music with each other, but we have zero understanding of how collaborative music-making works. As of right now, we mostly do our own separate things with our instruments. Regardless of whatever input we get here, I'm sure we'll experiment and figure it out eventually, but I'm really interested in hearing what others here might suggest on how to approach creating music with another person when neither party has any substantial musical background aside from basic functionality on their instruments. We're not looking to do anything fancy. It's more of an interesting and expressive way to spend time together than anything else. We can certainly find plenty of pre-existing old-time tunes that we learn to play together based on how other fiddle/banjo players have collaborated, and that probably is gonna be the starting point, but I'm particularly interested in making original compositions that are inspired by old-time techniques, but might not necessarily fit into that genre. So, how do people make music with each other? For example, does one person play a few notes they like, then the other person plays a thing as a response to that? Does that just keep going? Is one person more likely to take lead on composition? Do you choose a song structure at the beginning and work within that framework, or is that something that emerges over time? Does each person write their own parts? I realize everyone does it differently and that even the same people probably do things differently in different situations, and that's all well and good, but I am trying to throw around a few specific questions so that it's clear what type of information I'm asking for. I just feel like we'll have a better shot at figuring this out without getting discouraged if we get some perspectives from people who have done this before.
Edited by - luminiferous on 02/09/2025 15:59:38
Settle on a tune. Settle on a key. The banjer should know the chords within the tune, in the agreed key.
We live in a wonderful time where everything can be found online. "Jamming," the act of playing music with others, is no different. Here are some links:
youtu.be/csoUJ-7QcCs?si=I9xs256OqAa0u8fs
youtu.be/oXKTqaxTJ3I?si=uLD_xu8jDslN2IFW
Very Best, FJ
Well, if one of you is more of a tune “composer” than the other…then I would let that person rough out the basic original melody first? Then play it over and over, and let the other person fit stuff to it?
Or, if banjo player has got some good licks/riffs/chord progression that he made up and really likes…then do that on repeat, and let fiddler practice what could go well with that…
You will both “morph” to fit each other the more you play it together…
but it works most enjoyably if you both have similar musical taste…
But I think the gist of it, the person with a good strong idea they really like, can go first. And the other person then creates what fits in.
( And record what you like, so you can remember it all for next time! )
That’s my two cents :-)
(as an amateur who makes up stuff on guitar/fiddle sometimes)
PS - and congrats on all the stuff you have taught yourself so far!!!
Edited by - NCnotes on 02/10/2025 06:19:06
What you're asking is instruction on "how to compose an original old time tune." As someone who has composed a few tunes I can say, it's a very large vocabulary (old time) and not an easy task to write something truly original.
Can you write a poem in Portuguese without knowing the language? Will it make sense to a native speaker? It will help if one of you is pretty proficient with your instrument and have some sort of idea where to go with it, basically the ability to play what you hear in your head. The more existing tunes you share, the more you will have the same language to work with. There's a lot to learn using tunes that already exist, including how to vary what you're playing. Variations will put you on your way to composing.
Good luck.
My band writes a lot of our material. Instrumentals usually start with a little snippet that catches one of our ears and we all flesh it out together. Songs with words are different, for us. Sometimes it's a chord progression that is seeking lyrics, sometimes the reverse. But we all have input - a rest here, a bridge needed there, wouldn't this passing chord sound great! Its communal.
