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I'm just starting to learn to play fiddle, a new endeavor for me as I enter my 70's. I've dabbled with playing instruments through the years (banjo, piano and trumpet in high school) but never able to give music the time needed to fully grasp it all. Now retired I finally feel I have the freedom and time to learn more about music and to play an instrument. I've always loved the sound of the fiddle and those capturing sounds it produces. With that all said......
I rented a fiddle about 7 months ago and have been trying to teach myself. I watch a lot of YouTube videos and have a monthly subscription to Peghead Nation which I've found really helpful (subscribing to the beginning bluegrass and old time fiddle course). I'm also looking forward to starting in-person lessons with a local instructor.
My post here really is to ask for advice on learning to play and doing it slowly. Of course I'd like to pick up my instrument and start wailing out the tunes like a seasoned player. But I get the feeling, at first, I should be practicing/playing slowly, like really slowly.... to get the feel for it all. The fingering, handling the bow; its speed, pressure, intonation..... and the like. I'd like to ask for others, if possible, to share their thoughts on playing slowly, at first ... and the things it would be wise to focus on. I realize this may be kind of an open ended query, but any shared thoughts would be a help. Really glad to have found this group....... Thanks very much.
John
I always suggest that people explore the music of their own area, but people seldom listen. I don't know about the Cape specifically, but here's a good film about fiddling in New England: folkstreams.net/films/new-england-fiddles It's old now, and none of that may still exist, but it might be inspring.
As far as playing slowly, people often try to learn by playing fast tunes slow, which works, but can be kind of drudgery. Instead, there are tunes meant to be played slower - clogs, schottisches, airs, even waltzes. The first time I felt I was really "fiddling" was playing a tune that is probably a clog. I've been thinking of posting a series of tunes that aren't played much these days, and starting with some easy ones. Maybe I''ll get to it one of these days - you'll see it if I do.
Work on bowling in front of a mirror, slow long bows, open notes at first, add a do re mi scale. The mirror is so you don't waste your time staring at your fingers, that is unnecessary. In the mirror, watch where the bow is traveling. Keep it in the sweet spot, generally equal distance from end of fingerboard and the bridge. Also, focusing on as relaxed a wrist as you can get and keep the how traveling nice and perpendicular to the strings.
There are tricks to keeping the bow going straight. Balance a coin on your bow hand. Flex your wrist as you pull the bow down, keeping that coin riding the elevator. Up and down. That was the trick that helped me breakthrough. Also early videos from ProfessorV which is where I learned the coin trick. I've been playing for a long stretch now, but always go back to this guy for any issues I have it when I've been away from the fiddle for a while (it happens). Straight bow lessons are in the first 5 or so that he posted. Sort for oldest posts.
Helpful hint #?:
Playing quietly is an advanced technique. Practice somewhere where you can make as much noise as you're inevitably going to make. This is why they calling "woodshedding."
Often compared to petting a cat. You may have the knack, or touch. Don't believe it the hardest thing to play and learn. We leave that to pipes, and flutes.
quote:
Originally posted by capefiddle.. to get the feel for it all.
Get a tune that you like in your head, so you could walk around humming or whistling it. Then work at finding the notes on the fiddle. I, personally, wouldn't worry about the bowing, but simply move the bow to try and play the tune that's already in you head.
Some good tips above. Here's mine.
Get a cheap ass mandolin. Tuning is the same. This way you can figure out scale patterns and where your fingers are supposed to go. IMHO bowing is fairly simple to learn the rudiments. Intonation and muscle memory of exactly where your left hand fingers need to be - that takes a LONG time. The road to Hell is paved with good intonation. Check fingered notes against adjacent open strings and listen for the harmonies. Don't get discouraged. Playing fiddle/violin is HARD. Playing fiddle well is REALLY HARD, and some folks still sound scratchy, disjointed and out of tune even after years. But it IS doable. Patience and stick to it-tivness is essential.
"Often compared to petting a cat. You may have the knack, or touch. Don't believe it the hardest thing to play and learn. We leave that to pipes, and flutes."
Amen to that Farmer. I often say someone learning fiddle at first sounds like a bag of screaming cats, which is why I don't teach beginners. And Yah, farking pipes are way, way harder.
Practising really slowly is imperative to good playing, because this allows the mind to process what should happen in all aspects. If there is difficulty imagining this, then slow down some more. Here's an old adage I can't remember who said it..."Work the mind on the fingers not the fingers on the instrument"... This means that the conscious mind must know exactly how a particular aspect is practiced so to allow it to become a precise, unconsciousness movement. For example: Intonation must be heard in the mind before a finger is placed on the string. This may be a very slow process in the beginning, but if practiced diligently it can become a lightning fast unconscious reaction. Same with the bow hold, learn how to hold it and then imagine how relaxed muscles can be, it's a sure way to developing desirable habits.
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Originally posted by ChickenManWork on bowling in front of a mirror..........
...but forgodsake, don't let go of the ball.
quote:
Originally posted by buckhenry... This means that the conscious mind must know exactly how a particular aspect is practiced so to allow it to become a precise, unconsciousness movement. For example: Intonation must be heard in the mind before a finger is placed on the string. This may be a very slow process in the beginning, but if practiced diligently it can become a lightning fast unconscious reaction.
This brings up for me (a beginner), something I've been pondering....... Once a fiddler has been playing for a number of years, do they actually "think" about where to place their fingers? Or does it all just kind of happen as part of the memory (muscle memory) of playing the instrument and a particular tune? I watch videos of of seasoned musicians and they play so surely, precisely and quickly at times I can't imagine they have to "think" where to place the fingers.
So for me its not so much a matter of where to place them, its the precision needed once the finger gets to where it's supposed to be. Because there is no frets, placing the finger off even a tiny little bit make the note either sharp or flat. SO that aspect, again for me, even after playing over 45 years is something that is always in the back of the mind when playing. THats why my tip was to buy a cheap mandolin - to learn where fingers should go. Trying to dope out a fiddle tune AND keeping good intonation for beginners can be really hard. Once you learn scales and keys of songs, its a matter of knowing, this tune is in G and the notes in the G scale are going to be most of the ones used. I don;t really 'think' about which notes. Watching the left hand of good players can be pretty daunting and looks effortless. Trust me, its not.
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Originally posted by dorymanquote:
Originally posted by ChickenManWork on bowling in front of a mirror..........
...but forgodsake, don't let go of the ball.
Ooooh I need a new set of readers. Gave me a solid belly laugh, thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by capefiddlequote:
This brings up for me (a beginner), something I've been pondering....... Once a fiddler has been playing for a number of years, do they actually "think" about where to place their fingers? Or does it all just kind of happen as part of the memory (muscle memory) of playing the instrument and a particular tune? I watch videos of of seasoned musicians and they play so surely, precisely and quickly at times I can't imagine they have to "think" where to place the fingers.
29 years of playing.
Yes and no. I don't think about it so much as just hear it. Immediately, and without thinking about it. If it's off, I adjust and move on. As I get older, I have to adjust more on some days that others. I suspect that will continue to fluctuate as time goes on. Once I've made the adjustments, there's little conscious effort made unless I'm working on something new.
I practice as slowly as I need to get it right and that varies depending on the difficulty of the material - it could be a crawl. I don't think about BPM, speed ramps up on it's own -up to a point. After a time if I need to, I'll make a concerted effort to play faster but only after it's comfortable. I look for the sticking points. It's usually a lack of anticipation, or economy of motion thing. Can I put 2 fingers down at once? Use less bow, lighter touch, string crossing, etc. I pull the problem parts out and work on them separately and it bothers my wife because sometimes I forget to put the tune back together!
Edited by - Peghead on 01/21/2025 09:54:00
You're correct that after you've played for a while, muscle memory takes over. That is, you don't have to think where & when to put each finger. Eventually you get to a point where you are singing the melody in your head as you play.
I always recommend to spend some time with a teacher. I do teach, and I've been doing some lessons on Zoom. I don't charge much, if anything, bc I don't need the little amount of $$ teaching brings in. Contact me if you're interested at bsedloff55@gmail.com.
Welcome John, I’m inspired that you are starting to learn a new instrument at 70!! I hope to be like that!
As far as playing, I agree that playing slow, in tune, with good tone, should be the goal at first. It sounds like you are all set, with online videos and a local teacher, so I haven’t got much to add to that!
Yes, after a while there is not much thought about mechanics of playing (fingers, bow, etc)…
instead I am free to have thoughts like:
- She isn’t playing the high note…I’ll take it out too…tune twins - yay!
- bodhran whacking dude sounds off…I think he’s lagging half a beat behind…argh…sigh…
- Is this the second or third time round?…??…???
- what’s this tune’s name?
Edited by - NCnotes on 01/21/2025 21:18:06
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Originally posted by bsed55Eventually you get to a point where you are singing the melody in your head as you play.
I do exactly the opposite. I have a tune in my head, which I then play on the fiddle, and try to make the sound come back into my ear and be the same thing that's in my head.
John,
I'm also in Mass (Medfield) and just started playing fiddle. I bought myself a used fiddle for my 65th birthday a few weeks ago. I play mandolin so I have a bit of a head start on what notes to play as fretboard on a mando is the same as the stops on fiddle. But technique, yeah, it's all new.
Some resources local to the area--
bbu.org/
ribluegrass.org/
I won't be ready this April but maybe next -- fiddlehell.org/
Edited by - learn2turn on 01/22/2025 08:33:17
Similar perhaps, but different -- I find that I can help myself by playing very quietly. For some reason, that seems to break me out of any ruts that have crept into a particular tune. I guess maybe I hear things a little differently -- both from the fiddle and inside my head -- and new ideas and patterns start to come out. Really, I don't understand why playing quietly is useful, but it does seem to help.
............do they actually "think" about where to place their fingers?....................
I thought my previous post covered this question.?
Oh well. We consciously "think" when we are learning new skills and we need to be mindful of the best way to practice these skills efficiently so that they can be implanted in the sub-conscious mind. To allow the sub-conscious to take control we need to get into the "zone". To achieve that we use use techniques like meditation, hypnosis, visualization, or audiation to access the subconscious. Of course there will be extraneous thoughts, but that's what 'auto pilot' is for while we refocus our attention on what we are doing....
Try playing a major scale starting with an open D string (the second string from the bottom). Do the first four notes on the D string and the last four on the A string (the one next to the D string). Do Re Mi, etc. Start with a down stroke with the bow, then up, then down, etc. Soon it'll become natural & fun.
Maybe your query is related to this statement I made...........?
(Intonation must be heard in the mind before a finger is placed on the string.)
What I mean here is in the beginning we practice 'hearing' the note/pitch in our mind then place the finger on the string. If the note is out of tune we take the finger off and try again until we achieve success. With diligent practice the pitches are retained in the subconscious and are 'instantly' retrievable, thus we are actually 'thinking subconsciously' and it's lighting fast.
Alternatively you can just fish around for the notes and hope for the best. Eventually you may get it, if you're persistent, and you may even learn to hear it. The first option may seem very 'slow' (thread topic), but in the long run you'll be learning to hear pitches (scales, intervals and arpeggios) and tunes. This doesn't mean to practice this only, you practice tunes as well, but you now know that out-of-tune notes are most likely due to not 'hearing' them in-tune.
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