I hold mine down at the frog, but instead of holding it by the fingers, like lots of people do...I hold mine like this

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Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

I hold mine down at the frog, but instead of holding it by the fingers, like lots of people do...I hold mine like this

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Ahhh...I watched a video on this way. One of my favorites plays it this way. 

Well, I gotta confess I'm pinky off!

I got rid of it because it felt easier to do fast string crossings without it. I took an Irish fiddle lesson with James Kelly and he's also a Pinky Off player, so I have his official permission to continue that way, LOL.

He told me not to choke up on the bow though, so I abandoned that. Choking up was hard anyway because my hand would slip and the bow would rotate a bit (nothing to hang onto) but I do see a lot of people playing well that way.

To each his own, I think! :-)

I grew up playing strict classical hold, so these "tweaks" seem like a big deal for me...:-)

Pinky on, with my hand comfortably stretched out over a good deal of the bow, which I hold pretty much at the end. The grip gives me strength, leverage, accuracy and a good deal of flexibility in the amount of pressure I can use.

I'm a bit like you Eric, in that my pinky does a variety of things. Mostly it rests on the stick, but just barely. It's more like that's just a place to lay the pinky for a little stability, like my bottom hand when I play whistle (only six holes there, three for the top hand three for the bottom). But f I'm working more towards the frog, then it does what it is supposed to and helps balance the stick and keep the pressure even on the strings. I just played a bunch of different things and at one point my pinky was off the stick and curled towards my palm. If I'm using thumb under the frog hold (TUF), my pinky is on the stick but to be honest, that holds causes me to have much less flexibility in my fingers because I'm holding the stick tighter. I use TUF occasionally when I'm playing a dance and my arthritis starts bugging me. I used to play a lot more towards the bow tip and didn't use my pinky much if at all in those days. I'm more of a full bow user now.

Also, at the start of reading this thread I thought we were going to be discussing the flying pinky on the left hand, the one with a mind of it's own when you're not using it. 

Mine looks just like Peggy's picture. I was taught that it can be used to 'unweight' the bow.

Pinky OFF.. arthritis ...but it works for me..I tuck it under, out of the way.

If you don't play near the frog you don't need it, (4th finger that is), but how you gonna lift the weight off when you get near the frog?.... Are there any bluegrass Choppers/ Chunkers that don't use their Pinky? Seems to cut out a lot of bow near the frog if you don't use it.

Don't get me wrong, i have to think about where and when i need to use it, but i certainly would not advocate not using it at all..... Must explore this more...But that would mean using my Pinky more. :)

i also think the classical folk use it to take weight off at the tip as well, to smooth a bow change out?

Here's a photo of my bow hold, some years ago. I vary the pinky depending on where I am on the bow and how much leverage I need. Thumb is under the stick, not the frog.

Thumb under frog always seems to me to give a "fatter" sound for some reason. i think there have been a few discussions about "TUF" and "TOS" (thumb on stick), here before. i have seen folk like Alison Krauss using "TUF" before, so i would never say that is wrong either.

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Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Thumb under frog always seems to me to give a "fatter" sound for some reason. i think there have been a few discussions about "TUF" and "TOS" (thumb on stick), here before. i have seen folk like Alison Krauss using "TUF" before, so i would never say that is wrong either.

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That's my experience too. 

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

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Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Thumb under frog always seems to me to give a "fatter" sound for some reason. i think there have been a few discussions about "TUF" and "TOS" (thumb on stick), here before. i have seen folk like Alison Krauss using "TUF" before, so i would never say that is wrong either.

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That's my experience too. 

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I can't figure out why though?

Doug, I love that YOU are the Alamy stock photo for Appalachian fiddler! I use Alamy sometimes, but been using Getty Images more lately.

Why am I here? Oh yeah…I think Pinky Off works in my case because when fiddling the Irish stuff I am using about 2 to 5 inches of bow, always around the middle or a bit towards tip. I don’t really “pick up” my bow the way I needed to do in classical. I think players will adapt their bow hold according to the sound they want and what they’re playing… and even physical things like the size of their hand or the length of their fingers.

( Like when I played guitar, we compared and my “reach” was 2+ inches less than the reach of my male guitar friend…kind of a bummer! I definitely could not play things the same way he played them…I had to shift, or use different fingers.)

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Originally posted by DougD

Here's a photo of my bow hold, some years ago. I vary the pinky depending on where I am on the bow and how much leverage I need. Thumb is under the stick, not the frog.

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I have experimented with lots of bow holds, and will change it depending various factors (or laziness). Some just has to do with type of music, speed, attack, rhythm, power, fluidity, smooth, nuanced, and tone. As well different bows. Sometimes in long sessions, gigs, dances... or just helping with bit of fatigue in fingers/bowing; rather than fixed/locked/glued. I think it's good to have options.

One thing I di want to draw attention to between your photo and Erokins is the flat pinkie vs bent with finger tip on stick. I have found the latter gives a little better fine nuance control for some more delicate music.

Some other music, doesn't matter to much, just holding on and moving any cheap bow as if a two by four.

The little finger acts as a stabilizer for the bow. It can make a bigger difference in smoothness during slow bows. As you increase speed or play with rapid bow strokes (like when playing spiccato or flying staccato), the little finger often comes off the bow on its own. Players using the Russian bow hold are a little more prone to it being detached, as the bow is held lower in the fingers than with the Franco-Belgian hold.

My father slipped and fell on the ice years and broke his right little finger. When it was reset, it apparently wasn’t quite straight, as he found that, although it was straight when extended, it would rotate inward as he bent it to make a fist. He said it changed his playing and that he never felt like he sounded the same afterward. He learned to deal with it but he has always said he wishes it had been set properly.

haha.. my pinky’s usually off most of the time, and I’ve never really notice about it much. But now you got me wondering. I might try keeping it in next time and see if it helps with the squeak. Scratch geometry dash

The power of the pinky is amazing.

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Originally posted by alaskafiddler

One thing I di want to draw attention to between your photo and Erokins is the flat pinkie vs bent with finger tip on stick. I have found the latter gives a little better fine nuance control for some more delicate music.

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This is an important point. A straight finger doesn't allow for fine control, as it's a locked position rather than a flexible one. The same is true of the thumb. 

Yea...anything locked -----> tendonitis, a decade later...

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Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

The power of the pinky is amazing.

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"Pinky Power" or "More Power To Your Pinky" Ha ha

The TUF hold works well for me. My pinky rests lightly on the stick, or not, depending on what I'm bowing. It has almost no effect on my bowing. The 1st and 3rd fingers are where the control is.

One reason the TUF hold gives a fatter tone, I believe, is that it gives greater control of the stick because the greater distance of the thumb from the fingers allows more leverage with less effort. I don't understand the standard grip for that reason, but obviously there must be a reason behind it. But lots of players in different genres use the thumb under hold.

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Originally posted by pete_fiddle

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

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Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Thumb under frog always seems to me to give a "fatter" sound for some reason. i think there have been a few discussions about "TUF" and "TOS" (thumb on stick), here before. i have seen folk like Alison Krauss using "TUF" before, so i would never say that is wrong either.

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That's my experience too. 

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I can't figure out why though?

Here's why- with tos there is still counterbalance behind your grip at the end of the frog. When you go tuf  you remove all counter balance and that weight is transferred bringing the full weight of the bow into play. Naturally it makes for a louder ( heavier) sound well suited for certain styles not so much for others.  With the added weight more bow speed is required on the up bows to avoid the crunch. Hence an overall increase in volume and again, no counterbalance.