I bet I've mentioned this a couple times before, but back in the Dark Ages when I was planning on becoming a Linguistics professor I wrote a paper on how pronouns (like "he","she", "it", "them," and "those dudes") are used and how the usages change over time. In any event, stuff that at one time might have been considered scandalous and might have caused fist fights can easily become perfectly acceptable, and vice-versa. Putting it another way, you just got to roll with it. I mean, if we were dutiful enough about how we should talk we'd still be speaking Anglo-Saxon...or perhaps just uttering cave man style ugh's.

Today, we were thinking about the old song, If I were a Carpenter.
That mutha wouldn't wash today.

It's been about 5 years since I shut down my Facebook account. Best thing I ever did. One can't believe what people can get worked up about.

It's simply more "hey, look at me!" 

"All things are wearisome, more than one can say,
The eye never has enough of seeing, nor the ear it's fill of hearing.
What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there anything of which one can say,
                   Look! This is something new?
It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time.
There is no remembrance of men of old, and even those who are yet to come will not be remembered
by those who follow."
                            Ecclesiastes 1:8-11

I think I was 23 and in the 7th grade when I realized that my pronoun wasn't "horse's _ss." What a relief that was, though I really didn't like the replacement any better.
Wishing all a meaningful Veteran's Day.

Seriously though, one of the best things about studying a different language...not going for fluency or PhD, just study it enough to see how people, things, events, nature, music, etc., are described/told/expressed...it shows that language has an intimate connection to our views and thoughts about the world. It's alive too, language is alive, and changes along with our times, experiences and perception.

I mean, in Spanish, you don't 'Play" the fiddle...you "touch" the fiddle to make music. You don't look at "yellow flowers," you look at "flowers (of) yellow...."etc. And later, when I got my big fancy dollar-higher-than-minum-wage job up here and left home, one of my job benefits was free tuition for one or two, depending on the level, classes per semester. Well I took Russian...meant to take Chinese, but 101 was never offered when I could get away from work...so, Russian...just 101 and 102. That was a real eye-opener of a class. Especially since the language, besides being beautiful, had fairly recent changes going on because of big political changes. Wow...what an opportunity to see how societal thinking/ political thinking affects how people speak...that plus we also ventured into the old Russian authors...which was really tough for beginner Russian students...but comparing Dostoevsky and the rise of Communism and the modern high tech world and eventual fall of Communism (of course it seems to be back now, but I don't know what's going on with the language at this point and have forgotten just about every Russian word I did know...lol), you can watch evolution of events, perspective, speaking, thinking...fascinating...it's like digging up language fossils.

So...I don't know...maybe being a useless philosophy major in my youth, followed by little peanut jobs my whole life...lol...maybe that gave me too much bored time under a rock to just try to ponder and marvel over weird useless stuff...lol.

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

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Originally posted by doryman

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

Personally, if the kids want to be referred by something other than he/she/(it ) then maybe the kids should make up NEW PRONOUNS...

 

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There have been many attempts to introduce new, genderless pronouns, but none of them have caught on, "hu, " to replace he and she, for example. 

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How do you pronounce that? Hew? Who? No wonder that one didn't stick, kind of awkward.

Who is introducing these new premium attempts? Was it the individuals who want them or was it academics? If at first you don't succeed, try try again. Has that idiom been lost to the Internet age?

It appears I'm officially a grumpy old man.

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It's derived from "human,"  so pronounced like that.  

I have a good friend/neighbor who is a woman who identifies as a man. I never refer to that person as him or her. I just use their name.
When busking I often see little kids whose gender is questionable so I wink at the parents and say, "Cute little 'them/they' you have there." They always get it and always see the humour of the comment. Harry Hare is a Hare who identifies as a Wabbit.....

By the way, there is a hilarious movie called It's Pat...about a man who is trying to identify the gender of one of his coworkers...Many at this time will be offended by it but THEN, it was funny. I STILL think it is funny..Based (I think) on SNL.. Here is a link you might enjoy..https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110169/

I remember those skits from SNL - they weren't all that funny even then. As far as busking encounters, you can always say "Cute little child (youngster, tyke, little one) you have there." I prefer "urchin" or "rugrat," but some parents aren't so keen on that.

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Originally posted by DougD

I remember those skits from SNL - they weren't all that funny even then. As far as busking encounters, you can always say "Cute little child (youngster, tyke, little one) you have there." I prefer "urchin" or "rugrat," but some parents aren't so keen on that.

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Yep.. I get tangled up in PC, but  "kid'' still works, I guess.. Cheers..

Yep, "kids" are great, although I suppose the "Goats R Us" lobby might object.

Peggy - That all may be interesting, but I'm not too good with other languages, so for me its been more informative and interesting, and certainly more fun, to actually visit other places, here and abroad. Meet the people, walk the ground, see the landscape, breathe the air, hear the language and stories, sample the food and drink (even coffee), and especially hear and exchange music. Playing music has enabled me to do this, and even when I traveled for other reasons I took advantage of whatever musical opportunities came my way (I learned to play the dan tranh a little from a street musician in Saigon, for example).
Back to language usage, I think I once read that instead of "playing" or "performing," Paganini would announce that he would "cause his violin to be experienced."

Yeah that sounds like some very interesting and enlightening experiences. I've never traveled at all...for some reason, my favorite spot has always been home, and I'm never comfortable even five miles or so away from whatever is home . But I did meet a whole lot of international students in the small college I went to...so...the school was so small you knew and / or interacted with probably most students there. But as far as learning from other cultures, I guess for me the eye opening part of it is introspection...how do I see things or think of things...compared with how others do...are we the same? Does the world present itself the same to us?

You know, I've read some interesting stuff about how there really is no definitive answer to how we perceive color... you can't ever know if red looks to you like it does to somebody else...so, if you could see the world through their eyes, what they call red might just surprise you. Then I also had this friend who was an artist, I mean a real artist...like his stuff in galleries all over the country and he was featured on educational channels back in the day, etc. Anyway, he was one of the old friends where we would get together, just jam in our own informal way, lay our kids on a blanket when they got sleepy, and stay up half the night drinking coffee and just talking about one thing or another. Anyway, he would often just go off on color sometimes: color theory, theoretical color, color actuality, color behavior...etc., etc., etc. And I guess my point, once again, is that it's so interesting to wonder how our own experiences in the world are...like...are we totally alone with them...are we really a one-of-a-kind, ephemeral, solitary receptacle of physical phenomena that we interpret quietly from within our own cloistered personhood?

Lol...ok, I realize i'm talkin' like a real nut at this point...shoulda stayed home and just focus on growin' tobacker, maybe...lol.

Don't know what a "Pronoun" is, and can't be bothered to google it. I just say what i mean, in the context i am in, and probably put my foot in it.

But I'll take the criticisms from the folk who purport to know the intricacies of the English language, and how i should use them.

They may or may not get my meaning....Who cares?...What they going to do? Wave their dictionaries at me?

"Pronouns.... How I lament"

Is that enunciated with the back of one's hand placed strategically upon one's forehead?

I do think it's best to just not make any deal out of someone whose child is suffering from not feeling at home in their own bodies...for whatever reason or whatever it has to do with pronouns...it's probably a very painful time for all of them.

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Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

I do think it's best to just not make any deal out of someone whose child is suffering from not feeling at home in their own bodies...for whatever reason or whatever it has to do with pronouns...it's probably a very painful time for all of them.

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No understandy?

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Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

I do think it's best to just not make any deal out of someone whose child is suffering from not feeling at home in their own bodies...for whatever reason or whatever it has to do with pronouns...it's probably a very painful time for all of them.

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Agreed.

But THEY (or their parents, as the case may be) are the ones making a deal out of it.

Oh how hard it is to live in the 21st century with a computer/phone/camera in one's pocket (or on one's wrist as predicted in the funny pages) constantly entertained and not having to worry about food or shelter. It seems to free up the mind find something else to be concerned about.

*mumble mumble, old man noises*

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

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Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

I do think it's best to just not make any deal out of someone whose child is suffering from not feeling at home in their own bodies...for whatever reason or whatever it has to do with pronouns...it's probably a very painful time for all of them.

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Agreed.

But THEY (or their parents, as the case may be) are the ones making a deal out of it.

Oh how hard it is to live in the 21st century with a computer/phone/camera in one's pocket (or on one's wrist as predicted in the funny pages) constantly entertained and not having to worry about food or shelter. It seems to free up the mind find something else to be concerned about.

 

 

*mumble mumble, old man noises*

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My  thinking about this gender stuff;... it is only NOW that Gay people are becoming accepted.... The idea of 'trans' people is stretching it and apparently the public isn't quite ready for the term and its implications.  Not sure but I've always thought that the chemicals/hormones put in food can't be helping society...mumble, mumble...

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Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Don't know what a "Pronoun" is, and can't be bothered to google it.

Pronouns are catch-all nouns that, in sentences and conversations,  substitute for specific, actual nouns once you understand what folks are talking or writing about.  In English they include "he," "she", "it" and "they." And oh yeah, "dem dudes" can be considered a pronoun, as well...

Wait a minute! I've already posted this! Huh? Wha?

Nahh.....all the "Homoerotic themes in Greek and Roman mythology" Show it has been known about accepted, ignored and/or contested for millennia.

Edit: Referring to Lee's post

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Originally posted by Lonesome Fiddler

Wait a minute! I've already posted this! Huh? Wha?

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Apologies Ed, i usually only read the OP and last few posts. just shows my short attention span.

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Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Nahh.....all the "Homoerotic themes in Greek and Roman mythology" Show it has been known about accepted, ignored and/or contested for millennia.

Edit: Referring to Lee's post

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I DO realize that it has been around for a long time but  only lately has become an accepted norm...Make sense?

Depends on the society, and the segment of society.
google.com/search?q=Prove+it+o...erp#ebo=0
Gertrude "Ma" Rainey, 1928