I appreciate this post a lot.

I've only heard/played "Valley Forge" at Clifftop and had no Idea how the source sounded, different for sure and the C addition is totally absent (who decided that change?).

I learned a crocked version of the smoothed out "Big Scioty" and have been trying to make the change to Burl's way. It feels very old world in it's ornamentation, like most of his tunes do.

I also wonder about "I'm Gonna Go A-Hunting the Buffalo" as opposed to the title "Hunting the Buffalo" since they are so far from each other melodically. I'm going to look closer at this one because the version I learned differs a fair amount from both of those you posted (Jimmy's and modern festival). It has never been plays it in that tuning at any jams I've experienced and it seems like the tuning is necessary as adds quite a bit to the mood of the tune. I play it in Calico fwiw

Yea, I've got somewhat similar peeves...

< switching briefly to Irish Trad repertoire >
For example I learned "The Drunken Landlady" from John Carty's playing on his classic "Last Night's Fun" album...I led it recently at session, and others played it very straight, string of eighth notes like they learned it straight off sheet music...< sigh >

I could be a weirdo and send the audio track around and try to convert them, or just go with the flow...I usually just go with the flow. There's always a bit of sacrifice to playing with others...but often there's some magical additions too!

Only three ??!!!
As I like to say - don't believe everything you see on the Internet!
Carl - The link for "Mike Seeger" for the "Buffalo" tune takes me to a video of someone practicing the Highland pipes in a boxing gym - definitely not Mike!
And as I heard an old crow on a fencepost croak "There is no G chord in Julianne Johnson."

Julianne Johnson was the first tune to come to mind upon reading the title of this thread. Lots of Emmett Lundy's tunes are smoothed out. Festival style is a thing, not necessarily a good thing.

quote:

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

Julianne Johnson was the first tune to come to mind upon reading the title of this thread. Lots of Emmett Lundy's tunes are smoothed out. Festival style is a thing, not necessarily a good thing.

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Yes, probably about 10 years ago or more, I went to a jam while I was in Belfast, ME where they played mostly out of the notations in the Portland Collection. They played Julie Ann Johnson from the book and I thought it was a really poor version.

I learned Valley Forge from a recording of Jane Rothfield's "I Fiddle, they Banjo" back in 2010. I didn't know there was another version. This is what was being played. I liked it (I still do - I don't care that it is different.).  sorry...

I learned "Big Scioty" for the Morgantown Rounders - "The Morgantown Rounders"  (2006). It doesn't sound too far distant from Burl's version. No - it's not exactly the same, but again... that is the version I heard and played (still play) I like it (still do),  ...hmmmm  I don't plan to challenge what everyone else is playing for the sake of being "pure" - guess what that would make me...  (you happy and my local friends would be ... what?)

I don't play or know anyone that plays  "I'm Gonna Go a-Hunting for the Buffalo" (Hunting the Buffalo).

My point.        Well, I appreciate anyone's desire to play a tune as it was originally written / played / recorded. VERY COMMENDABLE!!!!  But - I resist the idea that shame needs to be heaped upon anyone who plays a different version. Just about EVERY SINGLE tune that has ever been subsequently recorded after the original - every one - is played differently than the original version. And who is to say the original recorded version is really the original.

I recently asked the question about Bob Townsend's recorded version of tunes that "Fiery Gizzard Old Time String Band" played - if they were Bob Townsend's versions or something he learned from local traditional players. I mean they are radically different than even the popular "festival versions".  I wondered where his versions came from. Come to find out - the versions he recorded were common traditional East Tennessee versions of tunes - but they are really very different than what I would find on Slippery Hill.  But they are really good fiddle tunes. Our joke - locally - is that we need to change the names so that folks will accept them as legitimate tunes and play them. If we leave them by the same name - folks will po-po them as ---- whatever - because they don't sound like the original - much less the festival versions. What do you do now?????

it's great to protect traditions - but don't kill - off other versions because they don't comply with certain expectations. It's certainly ok and worth mentioning that they are different than other versions. I struggle with that more than anything else - having first learned popular versions of tunes in Alaska, and then from recordings, and now now locally. And even now when I go to Arkansas - I have to explain where I learned some of the tunes I play ("that's not right").  really...

I do understand the attitude - but only up to a certain point, Then it seems that we are only saying - "let it die, if it can't be done right." I'm afraid that is what will happen. Why not just point to, promote , and praise those who do take the time to learn the traditional versions, and let folks play folk music. and be happy doing it. 

I'm tired of apologizing. and yet i still fell compelled to apologize to my heroes.  (sorry... ) 

I like to introduce a tune that may be different as, for example, "Cecil Snow's 'Grey Eagle.'" or "Fraily's 'Sail Away Ladies.'"

And I'll play whatever version is being played by others because I like playing with others.

"have not honored the source "...

I don't think I am a very judge-y fiddler,... I kind of take people's music for what it is. But my personal tastes are with Carl's.

It's not that "source" recordings are the only way to play a tune, but they are often way different/complex...more charming than festival/jam versions of tunes.

quote:

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Originally posted by Shawn Craver Fiddler

"have not honored the source "...

I don't think I am a very judge-y fiddler,... I kind of take people's music for what it is. But my personal tastes are with Carl's.

It's not that "source" recordings are the only way to play a tune, but they are often way different/complex...more charming than festival/jam versions of tunes.

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I agree.      ...but, imho, sometimes the source is not always that great - and then again - maybe I just don't have the ear for it. Nevertheless, it is always appropriate to acknowledge the source.

I realize that my comments were somewhat judge-y - not meant to be, but wanting to offer perspective. I've said this in the past - when you read about the attitude most of the players had "back in the days" - most of them had it in mind that they would play their fiddle and the tunes in a way that was different than everyone else. Pretty much the only way to make a name for yourself.  And that wasn't unique to old time music. We do it today - trying to find our own style of playing.  I remember reading where some folks would attribute new tunes they wrote to someone else - because they knew - if others knew they wrote it - it would never get played. 

But as I said - I do have a deep appreciation for anyone who wants to give an accurately detailed retention of a tune taken from the original source. They deserve a great amount of credit for that kind of effort (not easy). I just think it is unreasonable to expect that everyone should or would want to do the same. ****   And if they did... then the complaint might be that:  "Everybody sounds like everybody else. Just throw another nickel in the jukebox."

No disrespect towards anyone (especially Carl) for what they play or how they play it.  I'm really glad the tunes are being played. I wish I could motivate others around here.

quote:

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

I like to introduce a tune that may be different as, for example, "Cecil Snow's 'Grey Eagle.'" or "Fraily's 'Sail Away Ladies.'"

And I'll play whatever version is being played by others because I like playing with others.

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Yeap. There are a good number of tunes that I learned (from recordings) that are different from the way others in our session learned it. Most of the time - even though they aren't note for note - they still work well together. And if it flows - we leave things alone. But we'll talk about it. And will make attempts to learn the differences (courtesy) - and play them that way, maybe play it both ways different way in next round). 

When they are sufficiently different, we will talk about it and aim at a compromise. I usually loose () because everyone else was already playing it the "other way". I'm still the new guy - even though I've been with these folks for almost 10 years now...  They were together playing and recording long before I came around.  It's not a bad thing to deal with. No pushy egos in the group.  And I am pleased to have them as friends.

quote:

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Originally posted by tonyelder

quote:

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Originally posted by Shawn Craver Fiddler

"have not honored the source "...

I don't think I am a very judge-y fiddler,... I kind of take people's music for what it is. But my personal tastes are with Carl's.

It's not that "source" recordings are the only way to play a tune, but they are often way different/complex...more charming than festival/jam versions of tunes.

---

I agree.      ...but, imho, sometimes the source is not always that great - and then again - maybe I just don't have the ear for it. Nevertheless, it is always appropriate to acknowledge the source.

I realize that my comments were somewhat judge-y - not meant to be, but wanting to offer perspective. I've said this in the past - when you read about the attitude most of the players had "back in the days" - most of them had it in mind that they would play their fiddle and the tunes in a way that was different than everyone else. Pretty much the only way to make a name for yourself.  And that wasn't unique to old time music. We do it today - trying to find our own style of playing.  I remember reading where some folks would attribute new tunes they wrote to someone else - because they knew - if others knew they wrote it - it would never get played. 

But as I said - I do have a deep appreciation for anyone who wants to give an accurately detailed retention of a tune taken from the original source. They deserve a great amount of credit for that kind of effort (not easy). I just think it is unreasonable to expect that everyone should or would want to do the same. ****   And if they did... then the complaint might be that:  "Everybody sounds like everybody else. Just throw another nickel in the jukebox."

No disrespect towards anyone (especially Carl) for what they play or how they play it.  I'm really glad the tunes are being played. I wish I could motivate others around here.

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"I wish I could motivate others around here."  I feel like I need to clarify that last statement. 

The issue of motivation was pertaining to creating a desire to play old time fiddle tunes.    And "around here" meant "regionally" speaking - in the Memphis / mid-south area - not FHO. I could have been doing more - and I haven't. What has been tried has not really produced much....

Anyway... guess I've said enough - probably too much.