I have an old Hopf that I purchased to have around as a spare fiddle. I had a luthier put geared pegs on it and he noticed that it had a 3/4 bridge on it, so he replaced it with an old full sized bridge he had laying around from another fiddle (carved to fit). That bridge (which was already warping - why he didn't give me a new one is beyond me) is now very warped and needs replaced. I decided I would take on the challenge of cutting one myself for this particular fiddle. I have since realized that the fiddle is actually a 7/8 fiddle. When trying to fit a 4/4 bridge on it, the bass foot overhangs the bass bar by quite a bit more than the 1.25-1.5 that I've seen advised (around 5mm overhang when centered). I decided to put the 3/4 bridge it came with back on it for kicks and oddly enough, when put dead center between the f hole notches, I get the advised overhang of the bass bar perfectly.
Should I carve the new bridge from a 3/4 blank, or modify a 4/4 blank? Should I go a bit less on the suggested string height for a 4/4? The string height with the prior bridge was quite low and it worked (G 3mm- E 2.5mm). I can't find much on the 7/8 topic out there. Any advice would be appreciated!!
In case it matters, the scale length is 314mm, length of back 359mm, distance between f holes 44mm.
Definitely get the foot over the bass bar, so, yes, it appears you need a 3/4 bridge blank. Others will have to step in to answer your remaining questions.
quote:
Originally posted by FosforitaI have an old Hopf that I purchased to have around as a spare fiddle. I had a luthier put geared pegs on it and he noticed that it had a 3/4 bridge on it, so he replaced it with an old full sized bridge he had laying around from another fiddle (carved to fit). That bridge (which was already warping - why he didn't give me a new one is beyond me) is now very warped and needs replaced. I decided I would take on the challenge of cutting one myself for this particular fiddle. I have since realized that the fiddle is actually a 7/8 fiddle. When trying to fit a 4/4 bridge on it, the bass foot overhangs the bass bar by quite a bit more than the 1.25-1.5 that I've seen advised (around 5mm overhang when centered). I decided to put the 3/4 bridge it came with back on it for kicks and oddly enough, when put dead center between the f hole notches, I get the advised overhang of the bass bar perfectly.
Should I carve the new bridge from a 3/4 blank, or modify a 4/4 blank? Should I go a bit less on the suggested string height for a 4/4? The string height with the prior bridge was quite low and it worked (G 3mm- E 2.5mm). I can't find much on the 7/8 topic out there. Any advice would be appreciated!!
In case it matters, the scale length is 314mm, length of back 359mm, distance between f holes 44mm.
Those measurements are odd. At 359 for the back, it would not be a 7/8 at all but a pretty big 4/4. If the VSL is 314, something is way off. That's very short for a violin of that size, so it raises the following questions:
1) Is the neck especially short?
2) Is the bridge in the right spot?
3) Are the f holes way out of position? What is the stop length?
"Hopf" violins can be pretty oddly constructed, as some of them were made with speed and not planning in mind.
If the neck is short, I would be curious if it was the original neck set or if it had been altered. If so, your violin would be a good candidate for a new/repurposed old neck or a neck graft (if the instrument is nice enough).
As far as the bridge, it sounds like whoever set it up originally wanted to cut a bridge based on the bassbar position, which is a valid consideration if they were unwilling to solve the problem of the bassbar placement, which is not optimal for the instrument as described. Sometimes you have to make compromises to deal with odd cases.
I don't understand why you were given a warped old bridge.
The 7/8 instrument size is tricky as there aren't exactly standard dimensions, so each case has to be evaluated on its own.
I've come across several smaller "Hopfs" that were all challenging to set up due to inconsistencies of this type.
Thanks! I apologize for the error. Looks like length of back is 354 not 359. I think I need glasses, haha. The stop length is 190mm (bridge to top?).
So my fabric tape I was using to measure was off, so it has found its way to the trash. I measured again with my better ruler and the bottom of nut to top of violin is 184, top of violin to f-hole notch is 126mm. Length of back 350mm (13.75 in) and vibrating string length 313mm (with bridge placed at f hole notches). A 7/8 string length runs about 317mm and a 3/4 runs about 310mm. Looks like I have a close to 4/4 back length with a much shorter string length. The bass bar is also carved into the top. The 3/4 blank puts the bass foot about 1.5 outside of the bass bar. With a 4/4 blank I'm at 3.5 outside the bass bar. Also, the neck looks original.
quote:
Originally posted by FosforitaSo my fabric tape I was using to measure was off, so it has found its way to the trash. I measured again with my better ruler and the bottom of nut to top of violin is 184, top of violin to f-hole notch is 126mm. Length of back 350mm (13.75 in) and vibrating string length 313mm (with bridge placed at f hole notches). A 7/8 string length runs about 317mm and a 3/4 runs about 310mm. Looks like I have a close to 4/4 back length with a much shorter string length. The bass bar is also carved into the top. The 3/4 blank puts the bass foot about 1.5 outside of the bass bar. With a 4/4 blank I'm at 3.5 outside the bass bar. Also, the neck looks original.
Those are quite different numbers! At 350, the violin would fall within 7/8 size. I don't understand the 126 measurement unless you've switched the neck length and the stop length in your comment. Stop length should be measured from top edge next to the neck to the bridge line (around 189-190 for 7/8 on average). Neck length should be around 126, although some 7/8 violins have a 130mm neck length like a full size violin.
Given what it sounds like are the more accurate measurements, it does fall well within 7/8 parameters. If you're leaving the bassbar as-is, I'd probably go with the 3/4 bridge. If the violin were regraduated and fitted with a better bar, you could get more out of it and have a bridge cut that would then be more proportionate. Currently, the bassbar position makes it necessary to sacrifice either tone or structure.
Thanks for your advice!! You are correct, I got the neck length and stop mixed. I think I'm just going to get a decent quality 3/4 bridge and leave it at that. It's a very good sounding fiddle, but it is beat up and has some top plate collapse happening on the bass bar side which will make the bridge challenging to fit. Definitely a strange specimen. I don't think doing much more to it would be worth it, but it does make a great spare and it's saving the day for me now as my main player has a top plate separation from the bridge to tailpiece. If it ain't one thing, it's another, all right before festival season.
quote:
Originally posted by FosforitaThanks for your advice!! You are correct, I got the neck length and stop mixed. I think I'm just going to get a decent quality 3/4 bridge and leave it at that. It's a very good sounding fiddle, but it is beat up and has some top plate collapse happening on the bass bar side which will make the bridge challenging to fit. Definitely a strange specimen. I don't think doing much more to it would be worth it, but it does make a great spare and it's saving the day for me now as my main player has a top plate separation from the bridge to tailpiece. If it ain't one thing, it's another, all right before festival season.
The arching deformation makes perfect sense. This happens a lot when the bar is set too far in and the bridge sits too far over it. The string tension on the bass side of the bridge is not fully supported underneath and it causes deformation by making the bass side sink and/or the treble side rise.
It sounds like the 3/4 bridge is the most practical solution for you. Best of luck with the violin. Setup is nowhere as straightforward a thing as it's often made out to be!
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