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Another number from the Highwoods show in Pforzheim, West Germany, Spring 1978. Jenny Cleland, lead vocal. It was a little hard for Jenny to find suitable songs, because there's so much casual misogyny in traditional "old time" music, but this one from Blind Alfred Reed was fun for all of us to sing.
Like Doug said, there was a lot of misogyny in OT music.....
We used to play/sing this one with tongue-in-cheek.......
youtube.com/watch?v=6zMoZmbuwJU
and then there's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxpAbzA5m4s
You could probably put together a couple of sets of nothing but misogynistic songs.
Edited by - Mark Ralston on 06/02/2024 05:43:52
quote:
Originally posted by Mark RalstonLike Doug said, there was a lot of misogyny in OT music.....
.and then there's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxpAbzA5m4s
The song's OK, just leave out the first verse and just call it "It's a Shame" or "It's a Shame on Sunday".
Sounded good, Doug. I grew up hearing so many murder ballads I never really gave it a thought how horrible they were...they're all beautiful, musically, and I never paid much attention to what the words were besides a way to hum to the song...lol...until people started pointing it out to me. A few concerned on the untimely and terrible death of a man, but by far most were about murdering your own true love, female love, that is. Basically...normally once your girlfriend honors your love by becoming in the family way, you just kill her, do away with her, and the whole dang thing is settled...no need for worry with reproductive rights, or any of those silly modern day arguments. Then the young gentleman's reputation is intact and he is free to seek out the other fish just eagerly waitng for him out in the big blue sea.
Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 06/02/2024 11:00:46
Love the melody and the musical arrangement. Lyrics.... well, not so much. On that note, for some reason it's always the music that draws me into a tune. I rarely give lyrics for most tunes much thought. Though I'd have to say a lot of that early stuff Lightfoot sang took my interest. Then of course there's Dylan who practically breathed out tunes by the wheelbarrow load. But then even in his case I'm mostly drawn to the melodies.
I don't think its perverse. This was recorded 1978, and I think there's a little "hippie irony" involved. Very sound advice delivered to impressionable (?) young ladies by one of their own, backed by a chorus of the very miscreants! Seems funny to me.
Alfred Reed wrote and recorded some doctrinaire songs, but also some really good ones - "How Can a Poor Man Stand Such Times and Live" of course, but Walt and I once played in a loose group that did "There'll Be No Distinction There," a very strong statement.
quote:
Originally posted by DougDYes, which is still a prejudiced way of looking at it, but I think I know what he meant: all equal.
Agreed.
Oddly enough, if you live in a coal town...it's the opposite...at the bank on paydays everybody's black, whether black or white by birth...lol.
It seems kinda funny, not comical, but funny that such good ol' music often had dubious tales to go along with the words. It always bothers me that My Old Kentucky Home has lyrics that are hurtful by this time in our history...even though Foster wrote the words as to the life of the enslaved in the northern areas of slave-holding regions, etc., etc. How those enslaved people had more "rights" than enslaved on down south, how they lived longer lives and could stay with family...yet, in the back of their minds, they always knew that by and by hard times come a-knockin' at the door and then it's down the river, leave your family, and work to the death very soon. It's so unbelievably sad that just bringing up the whole thing is hurtful to many people...yet, the music and sentiment of my old ky home is so powerful in that song. It always brings tears to my eyes, to remember growing up and places, family, friends...most gone or destroyed by now...and how you love the old times in your state. But there's lots of people wanting different state songs, which I understand...but the music and the memory for me at least probably wouldn't be nearly the same. But it's understandable, for sure.
quote:
Originally posted by groundhogpeggyOddly enough, if you live in a coal town...it's the opposite...at the bank on paydays everybody's black, whether black or white by birth...lol.
It seems kinda funny, not comical, but funny that such good ol' music often had dubious tales to go along with the words. It always bothers me that My Old Kentucky Home has lyrics that are hurtful by this time in our history...even though Foster wrote the words as to the life of the enslaved in the northern areas of slave-holding regions, etc., etc. How those enslaved people had more "rights" than enslaved on down south, how they lived longer lives and could stay with family...yet, in the back of their minds, they always knew that by and by hard times come a-knockin' at the door and then it's down the river, leave your family, and work to the death very soon. It's so unbelievably sad that just bringing up the whole thing is hurtful to many people...yet, the music and sentiment of my old ky home is so powerful in that song. It always brings tears to my eyes, to remember growing up and places, family, friends...most gone or destroyed by now...and how you love the old times in your state. But there's lots of people wanting different state songs, which I understand...but the music and the memory for me at least probably wouldn't be nearly the same. But it's understandable, for sure.
These are overly serious times, or at least there's little understanding of, or forgiveness for historical context when it comes to music and other historical relics. PC comes down from both directions and we're the worse for it. It's not new but it seems to be getting worse. 30 years ago I was program director of a county public radio station, and it was sometimes a chore even then to defend to strident literalists the old time music we sometimes played . The calls would come in when a murder ballad was played. Of course, this was "progressive" Mendocino County. Sigh...
Hard to make comment on anything these days without someone taking offense - from the right and left. We all know that old saying "The more things change, the more they stay the same." so change is as inevitable as a morning sunrise. That said, change sometimes occurs too quickly or to too great an extreme. I think this is the kind of thing going on in America today. I do think some of the stuff that got changed in the past 50 yeas needed to get changed. I think in a perfect democracy everyone should be equally POd. Which kinda' means in a country as diverse as ours, no one should be able to have it all their way. We're never all gonna' agree with one another, but taking some time to look at things from someone else's perspective will never be time waisted.
Nuff philosophy - going back to learning banjo tunes. BTW- have some thoughts I want to run up the flagpole in a future post on the positive effects learning to play the banjo can have on a fiddler.
quote:
Originally posted by DougD... It was a little hard for Jenny to find suitable songs, because there's so much casual misogyny in traditional "old time" music...
I do enjoy your version of this tune. And I appreciate your nod to the underlying misogyny in OT, and that you tried to find alternatives. Good for Jenny for standing her ground. Now, I could do a more thorough critique of the "hey-women-it's-up-to-you-to-make-your-men-behave-so-the-men-don't-have-to-bother-trying" line of thought that exists, (and appears many places) but I'll refrain. I enjoy hearing it again though. :) Now, I'm not lighting a fire folks. Please, just take it or leave it.
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