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Jun 1, 2024 - 6:24:25 PM
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DougD

USA

12431 posts since 12/2/2007

Another number from the Highwoods show in Pforzheim, West Germany, Spring 1978. Jenny Cleland, lead vocal. It was a little hard for Jenny to find suitable songs, because there's so much casual misogyny in traditional "old time" music, but this one from Blind Alfred Reed was fun for all of us to sing.


Jun 1, 2024 - 7:16:33 PM

2719 posts since 8/27/2008

I discovered Alfred Reed in the early 70s. Not all his songs are PC but many of them grab me. I used to sing this back then but forgot about it. Yours is a good version.

Jun 1, 2024 - 9:25:56 PM

Mobob

USA

275 posts since 10/1/2009

Finer than frog's hair. Thanks for posting.

Jun 1, 2024 - 10:29:18 PM

1574 posts since 7/30/2021

Touring in Germany! That must have been interesting and fun.

Jun 2, 2024 - 5:41:12 AM

241 posts since 4/5/2008

Like Doug said, there was a lot of misogyny in OT music.....
We used to play/sing this one with tongue-in-cheek.......
youtube.com/watch?v=6zMoZmbuwJU

and then there's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxpAbzA5m4s

You could probably put together a couple of sets of nothing but misogynistic songs.

Edited by - Mark Ralston on 06/02/2024 05:43:52

Jun 2, 2024 - 8:51:13 AM
Players Union Member

carlb

USA

2707 posts since 2/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Ralston

Like Doug said, there was a lot of misogyny in OT music.....
.and then there's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxpAbzA5m4s

The song's OK, just leave out the first verse and just call it "It's a Shame" or "It's a Shame on Sunday".

Jun 2, 2024 - 10:56:52 AM
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15427 posts since 9/23/2009

Sounded good, Doug. I grew up hearing so many murder ballads I never really gave it a thought how horrible they were...they're all beautiful, musically, and I never paid much attention to what the words were besides a way to hum to the song...lol...until people started pointing it out to me. A few concerned on the untimely and terrible death of a man, but by far most were about murdering your own true love, female love, that is. Basically...normally once your girlfriend honors your love by becoming in the family way, you just kill her, do away with her, and the whole dang thing is settled...no need for worry with reproductive rights, or any of those silly modern day arguments. Then the young gentleman's reputation is intact and he is free to seek out the other fish just eagerly waitng for him out in the big blue sea.

Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 06/02/2024 11:00:46

Jun 2, 2024 - 11:34:18 AM
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RichJ

USA

1004 posts since 8/6/2013

Love the melody and the musical arrangement. Lyrics.... well, not so much. On that note, for some reason it's always the music that draws me into a tune. I rarely give lyrics for most tunes much thought. Though I'd have to say a lot of that early stuff Lightfoot sang took my interest. Then of course there's Dylan who practically breathed out tunes by the wheelbarrow load. But then even in his case I'm mostly drawn to the melodies.

Jun 2, 2024 - 1:03:32 PM
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2719 posts since 8/27/2008

For some perverse reason I go for ironic (to me) lyrics.

Jun 2, 2024 - 2:16:05 PM

DougD

USA

12431 posts since 12/2/2007

I don't think its perverse. This was recorded 1978, and I think there's a little "hippie irony" involved. Very sound advice delivered to impressionable (?) young ladies by one of their own, backed by a chorus of the very miscreants! Seems funny to me.
Alfred Reed wrote and recorded some doctrinaire songs, but also some really good ones - "How Can a Poor Man Stand Such Times and Live" of course, but Walt and I once played in a loose group that did "There'll Be No Distinction There," a very strong statement.

Jun 2, 2024 - 2:31:50 PM

2719 posts since 8/27/2008

We'll all be white in that heavenly light!

Jun 2, 2024 - 2:34:38 PM

DougD

USA

12431 posts since 12/2/2007

Yes, which is still a prejudiced way of looking at it, but I think I know what he meant: all equal.

Edited by - DougD on 06/02/2024 14:35:10

Jun 2, 2024 - 3:06:49 PM

2719 posts since 8/27/2008

quote:
Originally posted by DougD

Yes, which is still a prejudiced way of looking at it, but I think I know what he meant: all equal.


Agreed.

Jun 2, 2024 - 4:10:22 PM

15427 posts since 9/23/2009

Oddly enough, if you live in a coal town...it's the opposite...at the bank on paydays everybody's black, whether black or white by birth...lol.

It seems kinda funny, not comical, but funny that such good ol' music often had dubious tales to go along with the words. It always bothers me that My Old Kentucky Home has lyrics that are hurtful by this time in our history...even though Foster wrote the words as to the life of the enslaved in the northern areas of slave-holding regions, etc., etc. How those enslaved people had more "rights" than enslaved on down south, how they lived longer lives and could stay with family...yet, in the back of their minds, they always knew that by and by hard times come a-knockin' at the door and then it's down the river, leave your family, and work to the death very soon. It's so unbelievably sad that just bringing up the whole thing is hurtful to many people...yet, the music and sentiment of my old ky home is so powerful in that song. It always brings tears to my eyes, to remember growing up and places, family, friends...most gone or destroyed by now...and how you love the old times in your state. But there's lots of people wanting different state songs, which I understand...but the music and the memory for me at least probably wouldn't be nearly the same. But it's understandable, for sure.

Jun 2, 2024 - 4:30:38 PM
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2719 posts since 8/27/2008

quote:
Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

Oddly enough, if you live in a coal town...it's the opposite...at the bank on paydays everybody's black, whether black or white by birth...lol.

It seems kinda funny, not comical, but funny that such good ol' music often had dubious tales to go along with the words. It always bothers me that My Old Kentucky Home has lyrics that are hurtful by this time in our history...even though Foster wrote the words as to the life of the enslaved in the northern areas of slave-holding regions, etc., etc. How those enslaved people had more "rights" than enslaved on down south, how they lived longer lives and could stay with family...yet, in the back of their minds, they always knew that by and by hard times come a-knockin' at the door and then it's down the river, leave your family, and work to the death very soon. It's so unbelievably sad that just bringing up the whole thing is hurtful to many people...yet, the music and sentiment of my old ky home is so powerful in that song. It always brings tears to my eyes, to remember growing up and places, family, friends...most gone or destroyed by now...and how you love the old times in your state. But there's lots of people wanting different state songs, which I understand...but the music and the memory for me at least probably wouldn't be nearly the same. But it's understandable, for sure.


These are overly serious times, or at least there's little understanding of, or forgiveness for historical context when it comes to music and other historical relics. PC comes down from both directions and we're the worse for it. It's not new but it seems to be getting worse. 30 years ago I was program director of a county public radio station, and it was sometimes a chore even then to defend to strident literalists the old time music we sometimes played . The calls would come in when a murder ballad was played. Of course, this was "progressive" Mendocino County. Sigh...

Jun 2, 2024 - 6:21:01 PM

15427 posts since 9/23/2009

In so many ways, we live in strange times. I do think some things in our past are just beginning to surface and it does affect our communication with each other.

Jun 3, 2024 - 5:53:53 AM

RichJ

USA

1004 posts since 8/6/2013

Hard to make comment on anything these days without someone taking offense - from the right and left. We all know that old saying "The more things change, the more they stay the same." so change is as inevitable as a morning sunrise. That said, change sometimes occurs too quickly or to too great an extreme. I think this is the kind of thing going on in America today. I do think some of the stuff that got changed in the past 50 yeas needed to get changed. I think in a perfect democracy everyone should be equally POd. Which kinda' means in a country as diverse as ours, no one should be able to have it all their way. We're never all gonna' agree with one another, but taking some time to look at things from someone else's perspective will never be time waisted.

Nuff philosophy - going back to learning banjo tunes. BTW- have some thoughts I want to run up the flagpole in a future post on the positive effects learning to play the banjo can have on a fiddler.

Jun 3, 2024 - 7:53:09 AM
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Earworm

USA

555 posts since 1/30/2018

quote:
Originally posted by DougD

... It was a little hard for Jenny to find suitable songs, because there's so much casual misogyny in traditional "old time" music...


I do enjoy your version of this tune. And I appreciate your nod to the underlying misogyny in OT, and that you tried to find alternatives. Good for Jenny for standing her ground. Now, I could do a more thorough critique of the "hey-women-it's-up-to-you-to-make-your-men-behave-so-the-men-don't-have-to-bother-trying" line of thought that exists, (and appears many places) but I'll refrain. I enjoy hearing it again though. :) Now, I'm not lighting a fire folks. Please, just take it or leave it.

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