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May 25, 2024 - 4:45:50 PM

yoyogogo

New Zealand

42 posts since 1/9/2024

Just wonder abiut this. This kuthier doesn't know what to make of this could be a Crack over the siundpost and this is a repair job? I can feel an intendation intent region.




May 25, 2024 - 5:46:36 PM

6482 posts since 9/26/2008

Hard to say from a pic but probably indecision I've had a couple with soundpost related crack that were fixed decades ago, they were cleated, "stitched" together with little flat diamond shaped wooden pieces.

May 25, 2024 - 6:10:58 PM

yoyogogo

New Zealand

42 posts since 1/9/2024

quote:
Originally posted by ChickenMan

Hard to say from a pic but probably indecision I've had a couple with soundpost related crack that were fixed decades ago, they were cleated, "stitched" together with little flat diamond shaped wooden pieces.


Is it worth repairing or would the Crack decrease the value of it significantly and save the money on something else.

May 25, 2024 - 6:51:15 PM
likes this

1511 posts since 3/1/2020

It’s hard to say concretely, but it looks like a piece of wood was spliced in in the soundpost area, perhaps to fill wood into a crack that didn’t go together well. If there was indeed a soundpost crack, I would not recommend getting involved with the violin unless it’s had a good patch put in already and you can get it for almost nothing.

If the area is only cosmetically damaged, it’s ugly enough that it would turn away a lot of buyers. Given that so much has been done to the varnish, I wouldn’t want to get involved with it regardless of price. 

Edited by - The Violin Beautiful on 05/25/2024 18:52:15

May 25, 2024 - 6:54:18 PM

yoyogogo

New Zealand

42 posts since 1/9/2024

quote:
Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

It’s hard to say concretely, but it looks like a piece of wood was spliced in in the soundpost area, perhaps to fill wood into a crack that didn’t go together well. If there was indeed a soundpost crack, I would not recommend getting involved with the violin unless it’s had a good patch put in already and you can get it for almost nothing.

If the area is only cosmetically damaged, it’s ugly enough that it would turn away a lot of buyers. Given that so much has been done to the varnish, I wouldn’t want to get involved with it regardless of price. 


Alot has done to the varnish? Where and how can you tell please. So I can learn please

May 25, 2024 - 9:00:29 PM

1511 posts since 3/1/2020

quote:
Originally posted by yoyogogo

Alot has done to the varnish? Where and how can you tell please. So I can learn please


In your pictures there are signs that the varnish was stripped away in the middle. There are patches of varnish around that were either untouched or less heavily removed and they are much darker. In the first picture the spot near the chinrest really jumps out. But it's also a red flag that the middle section is so much lighter than the upper bouts, especially when it's so patchy. In the second, closer picture, you can see the stark difference in varnish color right by the damage to the wood, and it's clear that there's something unnatural in the sharp transition from red to yellow, the way it looks when varnish is taken off by rubbing it with a cloth soaked in alcohol. 

May 25, 2024 - 10:30:51 PM

yoyogogo

New Zealand

42 posts since 1/9/2024

quote:
Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful
quote:
Originally posted by yoyogogo

Alot has done to the varnish? Where and how can you tell please. So I can learn please


In your pictures there are signs that the varnish was stripped away in the middle. There are patches of varnish around that were either untouched or less heavily removed and they are much darker. In the first picture the spot near the chinrest really jumps out. But it's also a red flag that the middle section is so much lighter than the upper bouts, especially when it's so patchy. In the second, closer picture, you can see the stark difference in varnish color right by the damage to the wood, and it's clear that there's something unnatural in the sharp transition from red to yellow, the way it looks when varnish is taken off by rubbing it with a cloth soaked in alcohol. 


Oh wow thabk you. I'm looking at the violin and I can see what you mean now. I just never realised.

May 26, 2024 - 8:56:16 AM
like this

6482 posts since 9/26/2008

quote:
Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful


If the area is only cosmetically damaged, it’s ugly enough that it would turn away a lot of buyers.


This is exactly how I got my first violin. Had a crack repair and on the outside it was so poorly finished that it would never sell. The man who gave it to me got it at an auction with others and said it was too fine a violin to sit unplayed. It was much more fiddle than I could manage at the time, but I grew into it.

May 26, 2024 - 2:26:12 PM
likes this

1511 posts since 3/1/2020

I always tell my customers that everything can be repaired, it’s just a matter of how much you’re willing to invest to get it there and how comfortable you are with the value of the instrument after repair—even after extensive work, a violin is worth much less than a similar one in pristine condition.

May 26, 2024 - 2:33:44 PM

yoyogogo

New Zealand

42 posts since 1/9/2024

I am curious though, if this can be repaired, why does this kind of cracks have a significant effect on the value of the violin. does it alter the sound?

May 26, 2024 - 6:05:35 PM

1511 posts since 3/1/2020

quote:
Originally posted by yoyogogo

I am curious though, if this can be repaired, why does this kind of cracks have a significant effect on the value of the violin. does it alter the sound?


It's a crack in the most sensitive area of the instrument. Damage like this can definitely impact sound (the instrument is unsafe to play with a crack that's open and a repaired crack can cause the plate to vibrate differently if not done well).

No matter how well it's repaired and what wizardry has been used to hide it, damage is forever. This is why collectors will pay so much more for a pristine violin and why a violin gets discounted if there's damage. In the days of the old Cremonese makers, if there was a crack like this, the top would simply be discarded and a replacement top would be made. As repair and restoration work was eventually developed and made a part of the violin world, luthiers came up with good techniques for addressing soundpost cracks. It wasn't long ago that a soundpost crack was expected to devalue an instrument by 90%. At some point a lot of people started to use 75% as the standard. As the overall quality of repair work has improved in recent decades, some sellers have pushed the valuations a little higher on instruments with good soundpost patches.

When done well, a patch should not negatively affect tone. Since the damage is always there, it means the top has a glue seam in the crack that could potentially reopen in time. That makes it a liability for a seller. Many current players, luthiers, shops, and dealers will reject a violin outright if there is even a hint of damage in that area. 

May 27, 2024 - 7:03:27 AM

DougD

USA

11931 posts since 12/2/2007

Yoyogogo - Why don't you Google "Violin sound post crack repair" and see what's involved. A proper repair is very complicated and requires great skill and knowledge, and therfore is expensive.
You need to look inside this instrument and see what's been done. Are there cleats? Is there a soundpost installed currently? If so I think I'd just string it up and see what happens, but that's up to you.

May 27, 2024 - 2:53:38 PM

3641 posts since 9/13/2009

From photo, not sure if the seam is open.

As Doug mentioned, I would check is inside, like with dental mirror... to see if cleats, or quite often on old fiddles with that crack; a sound post patch, to prevent the damage from coming back... so check to see if that was done.

Jun 10, 2024 - 5:22:14 PM

275 posts since 11/26/2013

Unless this has sentimental value or is some famous makers violin, I would walk away from further involvement with this instrument. The repair is always going to be there, so psychologically it will always be in the back of your mind and it is now the weak point on this fiddle. Eventually it is going to cause issues. Why invest your time and money in it?

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