Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

36
Fiddle Lovers Online


May 21, 2024 - 3:22:41 AM

yoyogogo

New Zealand

42 posts since 1/9/2024

So i bought this in nz, via online auction, quite a few violin shops were bidding on this, so i guess they must have seen the potential in the violin :)

lovely and loud sounds, its at the luthier at the moment and he will give me a call tomorrow so share his thoughts. He briefly mentioned it looks like a reasonable copy. 



i guess my questions would be:

-from the images, might you shed a bit of insight about the violin?

-the varnish and the gunks, is that something i can do myself to clean up and make it look shiny again, or shoudl i ask a luthier. thinking of buying this kit

simplyforstrings.co.nz/product...595389022

-what strings might you suggest for a grade 5-6. thomastik dominant is supposed to be much nicer than the vision series. Pirasto tonica, larse tzigane set?

-the little breaks in the two F holes, how much do they affect the sound?

-do tail piece makes a difference and whether its worth it to change to a Wittner piece

simplyforstrings.co.nz/product...099894878



Thank you so much for your help.








May 21, 2024 - 6:42:22 AM
like this

1511 posts since 3/1/2020

quote:
Originally posted by yoyogogo

So i bought this in nz, via online auction, quite a few violin shops were bidding on this, so i guess they must have seen the potential in the violin :)

lovely and loud sounds, its at the luthier at the moment and he will give me a call tomorrow so share his thoughts. He briefly mentioned it looks like a reasonable copy. 



i guess my questions would be:

-from the images, might you shed a bit of insight about the violin?

-the varnish and the gunks, is that something i can do myself to clean up and make it look shiny again, or shoudl i ask a luthier. thinking of buying this kit

simplyforstrings.co.nz/product...595389022

-what strings might you suggest for a grade 5-6. thomastik dominant is supposed to be much nicer than the vision series. Pirasto tonica, larse tzigane set?

-the little breaks in the two F holes, how much do they affect the sound?

-do tail piece makes a difference and whether its worth it to change to a Wittner piece

simplyforstrings.co.nz/product...099894878



Thank you so much for your help.


It looks like you found a mid-level Markneukirchen violin from the 1920s-1930s in fairly good condition. Violins like this often have a great amount of potential. There may be some dirt and rosin on the surface that could be cleaned off, but much of the black that you see on the top and back around the edges and middle are not dirt but antiquing in the varnish. Have a good luthier clean the instrument--cleaning products can do all kinds of damage if you don't know what you're doing. There is no single product that can be recommended for cleaning because every violin has to be considered on its own. Some varnishes can be ruined with just water.

The missing corners of the f-hole wings won't cause a noticeable change in tone. Cracks on the plates will. For aesthetic purposes the corners can be replaced. 
 

Dominants are the industry standard in strings. They are rich, warm, and responsive and they're not very expensive. Tonicas are somewhat like Dominants but a bit cheaper and a little brighter and more focused.

 

The tailpiece does have an impact on sound, although the bridge and soundpost will make a much bigger difference. The Wittner tailpiece is well-made and convenient if you desire four fine tuners. The only disadvantage to Wittner tailpieces is that their full-size only comes in one length, whereas you can get a wood tailpiece that's the right length for your particular instrument. 
 

I'm a little confused by the comment that the violin is a "reasonable copy." At the time when this violin was made, companies were churning them out by  train boxcars-full daily. The labels used were often completely unrelated to the actual instrument, merely a matter of what labels were at hand or what labels were requested. You might find the same violin with a Strad, Guarneri, Amati, Bergonzi, or Stainer label. The methods by which German instruments were made had almost no resemblance to those by which the old Cremonese instruments were made. But it's much easier to market a violin as a "copy of a Strad" then to just call it a German workshop violin. I would recommend focusing on the merits of the violin's workmanship, not what's on the label. 

May 21, 2024 - 9:17:06 AM

DougD

USA

11931 posts since 12/2/2007

Youogogo - You always seem to want to replace tailpieces, but you need to understand a few things. The tailpiece on that fiddle looks fine to me, unless there's damage I can't see. Its probably the least of your worries.
HOWEVER it depends on what kind of strings you want to use. People act like they're all interchangeable, but they're not really. The strings you mentioned (Dominant and Tonica) are synthetic (nylon) core strings. They are quite "stretchy" and can be tuned with just the pegs, assuming they're working properly - except for the E string, which is usually steel and benefits from a fine tuner. Steel strings are not so forgiving, and fine tuners make them easier to deal with.
Now look at the tailpiece on this violin. Someone has added four fine tuners, which used to be common with steel strings, and is still done. Without them, synthetic or gut strings will rest on the little ridge on the tailpiece, called (I think) the saddle. The distance between the saddle and the bridge is the afterlength, and although its not part of the vibrating length of the string it still can affect the sound. Notice how much shorter this is with the added fine tuners. The main advantage of the Wittner composite tailpiece is that is has built in fine tuners, placed in such a way to preserve the proper afterlength. This can be handy with any type of string, but its really most useful with steel strings. If you're going to use synthetics, just remove three of the fine tuners and just keep the one for the E string.

May 21, 2024 - 12:54:49 PM

yoyogogo

New Zealand

42 posts since 1/9/2024

quote:
Originally posted by DougD

Youogogo - You always seem to want to replace tailpieces, but you need to understand a few things. The tailpiece on that fiddle looks fine to me, unless there's damage I can't see. Its probably the least of your worries.
HOWEVER it depends on what kind of strings you want to use. People act like they're all interchangeable, but they're not really. The strings you mentioned (Dominant and Tonica) are synthetic (nylon) core strings. They are quite "stretchy" and can be tuned with just the pegs, assuming they're working properly - except for the E string, which is usually steel and benefits from a fine tuner. Steel strings are not so forgiving, and fine tuners make them easier to deal with.
Now look at the tailpiece on this violin. Someone has added four fine tuners, which used to be common with steel strings, and is still done. Without them, synthetic or gut strings will rest on the little ridge on the tailpiece, called (I think) the saddle. The distance between the saddle and the bridge is the afterlength, and although its not part of the vibrating length of the string it still can affect the sound. Notice how much shorter this is with the added fine tuners. The main advantage of the Wittner composite tailpiece is that is has built in fine tuners, placed in such a way to preserve the proper afterlength. This can be handy with any type of string, but its really most useful with steel strings. If you're going to use synthetics, just remove three of the fine tuners and just keep the one for the E string.


oh wow, what a wonderful and detailed explanation about the benefit of the wittner tailpiece.  Thank you. i have never thought of how it could affect the sound. I have tried to learn on the internet but no one has mentioned it this way before. thank you so much for taking the time to share this. 

May 21, 2024 - 1:03:23 PM
likes this

yoyogogo

New Zealand

42 posts since 1/9/2024

quote:
Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful
quote:
Originally posted by yoyogogo

So i bought this in nz, via online auction, quite a few violin shops were bidding on this, so i guess they must have seen the potential in the violin :)

lovely and loud sounds, its at the luthier at the moment and he will give me a call tomorrow so share his thoughts. He briefly mentioned it looks like a reasonable copy. 



i guess my questions would be:

-from the images, might you shed a bit of insight about the violin?

-the varnish and the gunks, is that something i can do myself to clean up and make it look shiny again, or shoudl i ask a luthier. thinking of buying this kit

simplyforstrings.co.nz/product...595389022

-what strings might you suggest for a grade 5-6. thomastik dominant is supposed to be much nicer than the vision series. Pirasto tonica, larse tzigane set?

-the little breaks in the two F holes, how much do they affect the sound?

-do tail piece makes a difference and whether its worth it to change to a Wittner piece

simplyforstrings.co.nz/product...099894878



Thank you so much for your help.


It looks like you found a mid-level Markneukirchen violin from the 1920s-1930s in fairly good condition. Violins like this often have a great amount of potential. There may be some dirt and rosin on the surface that could be cleaned off, but much of the black that you see on the top and back around the edges and middle are not dirt but antiquing in the varnish. Have a good luthier clean the instrument--cleaning products can do all kinds of damage if you don't know what you're doing. There is no single product that can be recommended for cleaning because every violin has to be considered on its own. Some varnishes can be ruined with just water.

The missing corners of the f-hole wings won't cause a noticeable change in tone. Cracks on the plates will. For aesthetic purposes the corners can be replaced. 
 

Dominants are the industry standard in strings. They are rich, warm, and responsive and they're not very expensive. Tonicas are somewhat like Dominants but a bit cheaper and a little brighter and more focused.

 

The tailpiece does have an impact on sound, although the bridge and soundpost will make a much bigger difference. The Wittner tailpiece is well-made and convenient if you desire four fine tuners. The only disadvantage to Wittner tailpieces is that their full-size only comes in one length, whereas you can get a wood tailpiece that's the right length for your particular instrument. 
 

I'm a little confused by the comment that the violin is a "reasonable copy." At the time when this violin was made, companies were churning them out by  train boxcars-full daily. The labels used were often completely unrelated to the actual instrument, merely a matter of what labels were at hand or what labels were requested. You might find the same violin with a Strad, Guarneri, Amati, Bergonzi, or Stainer label. The methods by which German instruments were made had almost no resemblance to those by which the old Cremonese instruments were made. But it's much easier to market a violin as a "copy of a Strad" then to just call it a German workshop violin. I would recommend focusing on the merits of the violin's workmanship, not what's on the label. 


Thank you for your kind response. 

1- reasonable copy. This is because i sent him violins that had hidden damages etc. So he was happy to see a decent violin :) But yes, I am starting to understand more about the labels, and how misleading they can be.  And I agree about focusing on the merits of the violin's workmanship :)

2- great to know about the missing corners of the F holes. At least i wont need to worry in future violins that i look at

3- The luthier seems to recommend the dominant strings so i might go with that.

4- Varnishing. Thank you soooooooooo much. I definitely won't touch this violin :) But i might ask the luthier for recommended products that i can apply to maintain, beside a clean microfibre cloth.

5- Mid Level Markneukirchen violin from the 1920s-1930. Could you please share some insight what you think such violin could be worth in the range of, once setup property. The only reason why i ask is simply to provide me with the info to make the financial decision. Luthier is not cheap as you can imagine. So if the violin would be worth like $1K usd, and it woudl cost me $1k usd, then i might not just bother to do anything to it, apart from tailpiece and new strings. But if it might be worth like $5k, then it would be worth it to get it cleaned, tail piece, pegs, chin rest, and maybe some sound adjustments to bring out the best in it. Sorry, I am still new at this and I dont have access to a large violin shop that i can take into to get even a verbal appraisal.

Questions about strings please: How often should I replace these. Apparently about once a year for someone like me, who would practice maybe 10-15 minutes a day, if that. too busy. 

Thank you for your help so far. I have learnt so much.

May 22, 2024 - 7:02:55 AM
like this

1511 posts since 3/1/2020

quote:
Originally posted by yoyogogo
quote:

- Mid Level Markneukirchen violin from the 1920s-1930. Could you please share some insight what you think such violin could be worth in the range of, once setup property. The only reason why i ask is simply to provide me with the info to make the financial decision. Luthier is not cheap as you can imagine. So if the violin would be worth like $1K usd, and it woudl cost me $1k usd, then i might not just bother to do anything to it, apart from tailpiece and new strings. But if it might be worth like $5k, then it would be worth it to get it cleaned, tail piece, pegs, chin rest, and maybe some sound adjustments to bring out the best in it. Sorry, I am still new at this and I dont have access to a large violin shop that i can take into to get even a verbal appraisal.

Questions about strings please: How often should I replace these. Apparently about once a year for someone like me, who would practice maybe 10-15 minutes a day, if that. too busy. 

Thank you for your help so far. I have learnt so much.


Glad to be of assistance! As far as its value, there is a range in prices affected by where you live. I would expect a violin of similar quality in pristine condition to retail at about $2000-$2500 in my area after a professional setup. If there's any damage you have to account for it in the appraisal. Prices for good old German violins have started rising quickly in the last few years.

 

If you're not playing a lot each day, you might get a year out of a set of strings. The more you play, the sooner they wear out. I had a customer once who changed strings every two weeks because she practiced so much.

To gauge when to change your strings, you can use a few signs: the sound of the strings (losing power and response over time), metal winding coming loose, strings feeling like rubber bands (they have a suppleness to them when new), tarnish, and visible wear to the strings  from fingers (nicks and worn spots in the metal winding).

Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Privacy Consent
Copyright 2024 Fiddle Hangout. All Rights Reserved.





Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.1582031