Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

29
Fiddle Lovers Online


Feb 18, 2024 - 10:47:51 AM

yoyogogo

New Zealand

23 posts since 1/9/2024

facebook.com/marketplace/item/...838338549

facebook.com/marketplace/item/...234711556

So i have been trying to source a second hand, but nice violin to learn on, im a dad of three. Many have repeatedly mentioned the importance of a good bow to get good sound out of the violin. 1/3 of price shoudl be on the bow.

I am curious, how to find a good bow. is that even possible via just pictures online, Or I must go to a reputable shop to get a decent bow. 

I found these two on FB in New Zealand. All i see is simply two bows and nothing else. Bows have no markings, no brand or model. So I honestly have no idea what to look for. Advices and tips would be great appreciated. Love learning these new things about the violin world. 

Thank you kindly for your advice.

Feb 18, 2024 - 1:57:21 PM
likes this

RobBob

USA

2982 posts since 6/26/2007

I would not try to buy a really good bow on line. I have to try it out. How does it track? How does it feel? Does it make playing easier? are all questions that no one can answer for you. I have one Coda bow that I bought on line, but I owned two more before it and other carbon fiber bows that I've moved on to other players. The two penambuco bows I have are very good but I bought them after trying out lots of bows in person before there was an internet or much of one anyway. Just yesterday a friend was telling me about a trip he is making just to visit bow makers he has been researching. He is full of anticipation. It is quite an investment in time, energy and dollars he is about to make. I have also found that a bow that works well with on fiddle may not be as happy with another. Good luck.

Feb 18, 2024 - 5:11:26 PM
likes this

1403 posts since 3/1/2020

I hate to sound negative, but both those bows are the kind that aren’t worth the cost of a rehair. You find them in cases with old violins and they aren’t worth fixing up, but they’ll often be unloaded for very little on platforms like Craigslist, Facebook, or eBay as a last attempt to make a little money on what would otherwise go in the trash. Some people use them as tomato stakes.

On rare occasions you’ll find a “junk” bow that has a decent stick and plays better than you’d expect, but even after putting a nice winding, thumb grip, and hair on it, it’s still only worth about the cost of a rehair. Because these bows were cheap at the time they were made, they tend to have rather weak sticks and crude frogs, so your chances of anything good are slim. Most people who work on or collect old violins end up with bundles of these bows.

You can get a much better bow for not too much more.

Feb 18, 2024 - 5:20:38 PM

yoyogogo

New Zealand

23 posts since 1/9/2024

quote:
Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

I hate to sound negative, but both those bows are the kind that aren’t worth the cost of a rehair. You find them in cases with old violins and they aren’t worth fixing up, but they’ll often be unloaded for very little on platforms like Craigslist, Facebook, or eBay as a last attempt to make a little money on what would otherwise go in the trash. Some people use them as tomato stakes.

On rare occasions you’ll find a “junk” bow that has a decent stick and plays better than you’d expect, but even after putting a nice winding, thumb grip, and hair on it, it’s still only worth about the cost of a rehair. Because these bows were cheap at the time they were made, they tend to have rather weak sticks and crude frogs, so your chances of anything good are slim. Most people who work on or collect old violins end up with bundles of these bows.

You can get a much better bow for not too much more.


not negative at all. very wise words

Feb 18, 2024 - 6:35:12 PM

3320 posts since 10/22/2007

I got lucky. My favorite bow was found online. But I still consider it a gamble. Better if they have a return or trial policy.
Also, if you test bows in a shop, bring your existing bow. It can save you money.

Feb 18, 2024 - 6:53:29 PM
likes this

1403 posts since 3/1/2020

I wouldn’t focus on making the bow be a specific percentage of the value of the violin. There really isn’t a rule about it. You can get more bow as you spend more, but really it comes down to the budget you have available. Determine what you can spend, then look for the best in that range.

Some players use cheap bows with million dollar violins. Some use six figure bows with $500 violins.

Feb 18, 2024 - 7:22:59 PM
like this

DougD

USA

11796 posts since 12/2/2007
Online Now

You can't really tell if a bow suits you without playing it. As a beginer I think I'd just go to a violin shop and see what they have in your price range (say 100 NZd or less?) Depending on where you are located there may be several choices. Might not be a bad way to find an instrument either.
Looking again at the pictures of the violins you're considering, don't they both come with bows? That should be enough to get you started, until you know a bit more about how this all works.

Edited by - DougD on 02/18/2024 19:36:01

Feb 19, 2024 - 5:28:13 AM

565 posts since 9/1/2010

I agree with Doug. If whatever fiddle you get comes with a bow, just use that one. Once you get some experience and some tunes under your belt you can sample other bows and feel and hear the difference.

Feb 19, 2024 - 5:36:38 AM

228 posts since 11/26/2013

Unlike any other method of producing sound for music, your bow is incredibly important in playing your fiddle. Here, I always recommend buying the very best you can afford. THe problem - what is the best FOR YOU. That is so subjective, trying a bow out is crucial, until you know more in general what you like. The problem is a lot of new bows come unrosined and adding rosin is also very subjective, so most new bow sellers do not want you to put rosin on an unsold bow. If you dont buy it, the next person has to suffer your rosin choice.

Feb 19, 2024 - 6:00:05 AM

Strabo

USA

20 posts since 8/30/2021

Yup, ya gotta find a bow that works for you. I tried several bows until I found one that I liked. Then I bought another just like it! (It was $250.)

Cheap-o bows generally did not work for me. I tried some more expensive bows but they didn't work for me either. Violin teachers have let me play their $$$$ bows, but I was not overly impressed. 

So I guess it's just trial & error until something clicks for you...

Feb 19, 2024 - 7:11:56 AM
likes this

228 posts since 11/26/2013

So right. I had a really expensive (to me) bow I was having rehaired. I never really loved this bow but it was what I was used to. I mentioned this to my luthier when I picked it up. He pulled out a draw full of bows and said, try some of these. I did and found 2 that - WOW - were so much easier to play with and I could feel a lot of possibilities with these 2. Both were lighter then my original one and carried price stickers of around $750 each. The luthier accepted my original one in trade for both bows (and he gave me some cash too!). He has since retired and my new luthier appraised both of these bows at substantially more then $750 each, so a good trade, both from a financial standpoint and now I have 2 bows I really love.

Having a good bow (for you) really does make a lot of difference. It will allow the bow to disappear when playing, becoming less of an impediment to you in communicating with your instrument and drawing out the sound you are looking for.

Feb 19, 2024 - 11:00:52 AM

1403 posts since 3/1/2020

I completely agree that finding a bow that really fits you is an amazing thing and that personal preference dictates a huge amount of the decision.

However, this applies to players with the experience and understanding to discern what makes a bow work well personally. These kinds of traits are what one looks for in a bow that is intended to be played long-term. A beginning player will not have a sense of what works yet because everything is new and feels strange. At this stage, getting a bow that’s tailor-made to personal preferences is less important than getting something that’s made well and produces consistent results. Teachers often guide students in bow purchases and shops have a good idea of what works well overall and what doesn’t through seeing lots of players come through or playing them personally (if they play).

Most of the sub-$100 bows are made cheaply enough that it’s not economical to rehair them—they’re made so crudely that rehairing is actually harder and you can buy another for less than the cost of a rehair anyway. Basically you’re buying the hair on a stick that’s hopefully good enough to last the life of the hair.

Once you get above $100 you get closer to the range where you might find low-end but rehairable carbon fiber bows or inexpensive but decent old nickel-mounted bows. At this point the bows are good enough to rehair and will last you as long as you maintain them.

A cheap but decent bow is fine for getting started because early playing is more about learning about posture and basic tone production than it is about nuance. As you progress and learn more refined bow techniques and phrasing, a better bow becomes more important.

Many of the Russian-school teachers I’ve dealt with are dogmatic about this; in their studios one MUST start with a cheap instrument and bow and use them until earning the PRIVILEGE of playing on better equipment! On the other hand, I often come across adult students who would rather start out with good equipment than having to upgrade several times, so they do a lot of research and seek advice to get the best results. Both methods work if one is dedicated.

Edited by - The Violin Beautiful on 02/19/2024 11:01:20

Feb 19, 2024 - 11:17:09 AM

yoyogogo

New Zealand

23 posts since 1/9/2024

so many great advices. i think the one thing that standout is my lack of experience to really know the differences in the bow, apart from the sound it makes. I happen to have two bows here. one came with my cheap as roweller violin, and one came with my daughter St Antonion 1999 violin. for some reason, the seller had a spare full size bow. this one was heavy and the sound was just more full and warm. It was surprising to me that two bows could make two different sounds. Why? i have no idea :)

Feb 19, 2024 - 1:56:42 PM
likes this

Quincy

Belgium

849 posts since 1/16/2021

At one point I ordered a Codabow Joule because my wooden bow at that point in time felt like it was limiting me.
It worked like magic, with the Codabow I had a lighter feel in my hand and it leant itself easily for playing close to the frog for example. I still play most often with my Codabow because it really feels like my bow,.

But something strange happened after a while of only using the Codabow : one day I tried my +- 180 euro wooden bow again , and suddenly there was nothing I could not do with the wooden bow that I learned with the Codabow. It felt like the Codabow facilitated the use of my wooden bow.
I have a rather firm grip and the Codabow however is more forgiving for my strong hand, when I take out the wooden bow I need to pay attention to a less firm grip or otherwise it starts to bounce.

My wooden bow I picked after testing a couple of bows that my luthier had in stock , the Codabow Joule I bought because I had some extras to spend and went through reviews and listened to videos of people playing the Joule.

I just tell you my story, in case that would be helpful.

Edited by - Quincy on 02/19/2024 13:58:39

Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Privacy Consent
Copyright 2024 Fiddle Hangout. All Rights Reserved.





Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.2180176