quote:Originally posted by NCnotes
Anybody want to sing?

youtu.be/XmiZCqjRmK0?si=KKO8sZ3fHqq5TJVJ

I tried Bandlab again but playing while listening garbaged up the track. Obviously 

Cheapo wireless headphones..Not bluetooth.

Uses a wall wart. Plug the transmitter into any 3.5mm audio jack socket, just like you would with wired headphones, but you can wander around the house with em on. What comes out of the audio socket comes out of the headphones.....With Zero Latency. But less than audiophile quality, perfectly fine for listening to radio, tv etc. i bought 2 pairs for about 10 quid in a sale to listen to radio in the workshop.

Edit: About 50yards range through walls etc, and about 100 yds over open ground.  Eats 2 AA batteries in around 6-8 hrs (i use rechargeable)
 

Thanks Pete,
My problem is the audio signal. This tablet has no mini jack at all. My phone however does. We'll give it a try tomorrow. (Hockey night!)

BTW the Bandlab latency test resolved @ 147ms.

Interesting! Is 147ms a lot? I will have to see what mine is.

Bandlab used to work better for me when I had wired EarPods, but then they took all the EarPod jacks out of the iPhones (grr) so now I have wireless AirPods… I dislike the wireless EarPods because I’m always losing them! (Nefarious Apple plan to sell more?) Pete’s zero-latency headphones look harder to lose…:-)

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Originally posted by farmerjones

quote:Originally posted by NCnotes
Anybody want to sing?

youtu.be/XmiZCqjRmK0?si=KKO8sZ3fHqq5TJVJ

I tried Bandlab again but playing while listening garbaged up the track. Obviously 

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Wow you can play and sing at same time! I can't even say "Hup!" without messing up...

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Originally posted by NCnotes

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Originally posted by farmerjones

quote:Originally posted by NCnotes
Anybody want to sing?

youtu.be/XmiZCqjRmK0?si=KKO8sZ3fHqq5TJVJ

I tried Bandlab again but playing while listening garbaged up the track. Obviously 

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Wow you can play and sing at same time! I can't even say "Hup!" without messing up...

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I can't even take credit for the 1st time. Look up Bruce Molsky singing same tune. But Thanks!

I joined the fun. I downloaded the files out of bandlab and put them in my Studio One. Recorded my bit there and then uploaded my stem to bandlab. I needed several runs at it because I kept getting lost, just like in a jam. Tried to keep it simple. In my final take I only got a little lost on the last A section, I tried going to the B part too soon so there's a hiccup there, so beware, don't follow me too closely... Nice fiddlin NcNotes, you sound like Molsky!

That was great Bob.

Still more empty chairs

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Originally posted by farmerjones

Thanks Pete,
My problem is the audio signal. This tablet has no mini jack at all. My phone however does. We'll give it a try tomorrow. (Hockey night!)

BTW the Bandlab latency test resolved @ 147ms.

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Yeah, give phone a try. 

Not sure what "playing while listening garbaged up the track" means?

The phone, nor no matter the headphone, earbud, wired or Bluetooth... probably not going solve the live mic monitor latency. The amount of latency isn't really important if not needing to monitor the live mic/input... just to auto line up tracks after recorded.

Did try the one ear monitoring? Or even just using a speaker? In this only hear the existing mix icoming thru; the fiddle, or vocal you just listen to acoustically in the room. (try keep bleed down)

Another option might be to perhaps use your Fostex/mic setup, in same way others can use another DAW of choice to record (like Studio One).  Copy existing mix track into the device or DAW. Record your track. Export the track by itself. Import that into BandLab. A bit more steps, but it's a way to participate. Should mention USB mics; and interfaces (plug own mic in) have become fairly inexpensive (less than $40) and will do an okay job. 

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Originally posted by alaskafiddler

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Originally posted by farmerjones

Thanks Pete,
My problem is the audio signal. This tablet has no mini jack at all. My phone however does. We'll give it a try tomorrow. (Hockey night!)

BTW the Bandlab latency test resolved @ 147ms.

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Yeah, give phone a try. 

Not sure what "playing while listening garbaged up the track" means?

The phone, nor no matter the headphone, earbud, wired or Bluetooth... probably not going solve the live mic monitor latency. The amount of latency isn't really important if not needing to monitor the live mic/input... just to auto line up tracks after recorded.

Did try the one ear monitoring? Or even just using a speaker? In this only hear the existing mix icoming thru; the fiddle, or vocal you just listen to acoustically in the room. (try keep bleed down)

Another option might be to perhaps use your Fostex/mic setup, in same way others can use another DAW of choice to record (like Studio One).  Copy existing mix track into the device or DAW. Record your track. Export the track by itself. Import that into BandLab. A bit more steps, but it's a way to participate. Should mention USB mics; and interfaces (plug own mic in) have become fairly inexpensive (less than $40) and will do an okay job. 

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First of all Geo, I want to thank you for being far more patient than I ever would be. If the tech stuff starts overshadowing the music/artistic part, it doesn't take me long  to loose interest and move on. But since you're still in it, I'll keep monkeying around with it.  

The garbage reference was about the track literally sounded like audio tape stretching and contracting. So bizarre? I suspect a buffer was called and overloaded, again and again.

I got the invite. I haven't been able to get to my computer with this app.

My question is, can I use my DAW to record tracks on a collaboration project?

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Originally posted by Erockin

I got the invite. I haven't been able to get to my computer with this app.

My question is, can I use my DAW to record tracks on a collaboration project?

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On a computer it's not really an app; just site using a a web browser.

Yes you can use another DAW ro record, add plugins, edit your track and such.

1. Open BandLab project. Download existing mix track (or individual stem tracks if want) 

2. Import or copy the audio files into DAW.

3. Record your track.

4. Export the track by itself.

5. Open BandLab project, Import that into a new track. Might have to nudge it around to get it to line up in sync (take care in your DAW to keep the timing set to zero). 

A bit more steps, but will work.  

BTW feel free to do another rhythm guitar track, your Dread sounds great. Piano would be nice too. 

NCnotes - I liked your fiddle part, but I wish it were longer.
Latency of 145 ms is way too long. Really needs to be under 10 ms not to cause problems. As I said earlier, my Bluetooth headphones have a "Video" setting for watching video, but even that is 120 ms, too long for this.
This song has become associated with Bruce Molsky, but have you ever heard Tommy Jarrell sing it. He is the sole source for the song, AFAIK. He played it on the banjo, not fiddle, which is kind of unusual for a piece in 3/4 time: youtu.be/-L-027p67nY There is also a lovely clip from the Transatlantic sessions with Bruce and Julie Fowlis singing it.

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Originally posted by farmerjones

First of all Geo, I want to thank you for being far more patient than I ever would be. If the tech stuff starts overshadowing the music/artistic part, it doesn't take me long  to loose interest and move on. But since you're still in it, I'll keep monkeying around with it.  

 

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Mostly it's just working out the initial bugs. 

The one thing I was going to mention about when I've done projects like this (and similar), for a lot for these folks like yourself;  is just the initial set up hurdles. Kind of a catch 22 thing.. Lot of folks don't want to buy extra stuff either... not just mic/interface; adapters, cables, power, headphones or older outdated devices; at least until they see what it's about, if it might be something they can do. Might have existing stuff they want to see if can cobble together and use; maybe with duct tape and bailing wire. Nothing wrong wrong with that, I do that as well; often It can be possible, but probably need of more problem solving, and willing to do that. Which unfortunately can make the experience more frustrating and seem like it's more complex. 

That's why I mentioned just using a phone (if don't already have a recording/DAW setup); to just see what it's about, get feet wet, test concept; might be easiest. (phone mic is not as bad as think). They do make okay mics that can plug into the little 1/8 plug of phone or computer, (some are really good). I found a few at thrift store for few bucks. One was the iRig Mic... designed to plug into phone or tablet. worked pretty well on my iphone6. Of course now iphones and ipad and laptops got rid of those plugs. Old devices like Iphone 6 sitting around can still works for BL, via wifi (the camera can also find uses)

As well often why I mention a USB mic, with headphone port; and just some inexpensive earbuds or headphones; esp if tech wary... it just makes for easy setup with less dealing with equipment.. Inexpensive ones like Samson Go Mic or  Samson Meteor or  even some of those FiFine would work.  

. Of course for a just little more budget there are AT202, Rode, Shure, Blue, MXL, Samson make lots of pretty good USB mics. Can find many barely used ones for $40 or so. Lots of folks bought Blue Yeti for Covid work at home, and don't need them now.

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Originally posted by DougD

Latency of 145 ms is way too long. Really needs to be under 10 ms not to cause problems. 

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Only if you need to monitor your live signal; as it gets routed thru A/D converters, bus, buffers into the computer, write; then read send back thru bus, buffers, D/A converter.

Option is just listen to your fiddle like would normally live, under your ear... no latency.

Or if you have a setup that just sends the analog signal direct from preamp to headphones - before A/D. As most interface do, and USB mics; can also use a mixer.

OK. My levels are kinda low, because the phone's mike is so directional. So I added a track and saved, is that all there is to it? If so, i'll be ready for the next one.

Steve, just on instinct I'd be very surprised if your phone's mic is directional. Here's some info on recording with a phone that may or may not be accurate. musicraiser.com/are-cell-phone...ectional/

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Originally posted by DougD

NCnotes - I liked your fiddle part, but I wish it were longer.
Latency of 145 ms is way too long. Really needs to be under 10 ms not to cause problems. As I said earlier, my Bluetooth headphones have a "Video" setting for watching video, but even that is 120 ms, too long for this.
This song has become associated with Bruce Molsky, but have you ever heard Tommy Jarrell sing it. He is the sole source for the song, AFAIK. He played it on the banjo, not fiddle, which is kind of unusual for a piece in 3/4 time: youtu.be/-L-027p67nY There is also a lovely clip from the Transatlantic sessions with Bruce and Julie Fowlis singing it.

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Thanks! Fiddle part was brief because in my head I heard singer then coming in, and I was leaving space for breaks by others (banjo? Dobro? And other fiddlers!)  At least that's what I hear in my overly-ambitious minds ear, hahaha...

I will check out Tommy Jarrell's!

 Have listened to that Transatlantic session with Bruce Molsky/julie fowlis/mike mcgoldrick many times... am a huge fan of Mike McGoldrick on Irish flute...<3

As for the tech, I had no luck with fixing Bandlab latency (error message) and Google seemed to suggest that they don't support that for mac OS or something?! Sheesh.
GarageBand works if I use the download/upload process...am probably stuck with that for now! 

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Originally posted by farmerjones

OK. My levels are kinda low, because the phone's mike is so directional. So I added a track and saved, is that all there is to it? If so, i'll be ready for the next one.

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Getting close. You've got the concept of the program right, that's all there is to that part. Yes the levels are low; which is not generally a huge deal as there is place to boost it. Which I was able to do.

I can hear the notes just fine and in sync...  However, listening to your track solo mode (the S button on by track name). it sounds like still have a mic issue; phone should be clearer than that. Could be placement/direction, but I think is something else. Should work on this first, without worrying about BandLab multitrack project (and headphone monitoring). Could be from many things, so need to isolate a bit; need to determine is that mic working and be suitable for recording fiddle. Here are some simple suggestions to try, can use VoiceMemo type app, or just start a your own new project in BL (Create), or other app.

1. One is in the mic itself is in some other way just not functioning right. A common issue for phone, is port is covered up; and/or got lint or debris in it. So just do basic short test, with recording app.. without headphones... sing something or fiddle into it, then listen back. 

2. One possibility, that happened to others, are using a headphone that has a mic, and that phone/app is using that. Look at the plug if it's just 3 section, or 4. Thus plugging that in will bypass the the built in mic of phone by default. You can also test this with just recording some test sound recordings, compare with headphones in with above without head phones. (then need to see if and how might select to use phone mic).

3. Possible that your device, phone (or previous tablet experience) has some filters engaged by default, that automatically tries to adjust some settings and/or runs filters for echo, feedback, and noise cancelation to enhance speaking communication. If so need to see if can bypass, or turn those off.

So start with testing those, should be quick and easy to do, will help narrow things down... and figure solution.  If resolved no issue with those, then might think about placement, or some settings.

And Phil Cunningham on bouzouki! That Transatlantic session clip has a perfectly unified mood, IMHO. I certainly haven't seen all of them, but not all worked quite that well.
Good luck with the technical stuff. Been a long time since I looked at any of that, but I remember doing a test on some program and latency was under 10 ms, maybe just a few - just a local setup though, no Internet or Bluetooth involved.

 

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Thanks! Fiddle part was brief because in my head I heard singer then coming in, and I was leaving space for breaks by others (banjo? Dobro? And other fiddlers!)  At least that's what I hear in my overly-ambitious minds ear, hahaha...

NCnotes, I agree with DougD, play through the whole thing.  I did, with the expectation that Geo can edit to his heart's content, highlighting different parts or just letting it all blend together like a normal chaotic jam, LOL.

Oh! I did not know we were going to make Geo (George??) do that much work! :-)
Thanks for the tip Bee!

doug, eerie beauty of tune definitely comes through in Tommy Jarrell’s singing and banjo….Thanks for link!

Phil Cunningham!
We play “flatwater Fran” ( a tune he wrote) at our session! Somebody joked that when we play it too fast, we should call it “whitewater Fran” …:-)

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Originally posted by NCnotes

As for the tech, I had no luck with fixing Bandlab latency (error message) and Google seemed to suggest that they don't support that for mac OS or something?! Sheesh.
GarageBand works if I use the download/upload process...am probably stuck with that for now! 

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Not sure what exatly latency problem trying to solve or why, issues.

I've used BandLab on iphone, and it seems to work just fine. I've used older iMacs  (like vintage 2007?) seem to work fine. 

So decided to do a quick test using
1.  iphone for 2 tracks, one on a few years old iphone SE using built in mic and Bluetooth Headphones; another on older iphone6, using built in mic and wred earbud. There is not latency test option or needed AFAIK. Didnt do anything special, tracks just synced up.

2. a track running on c2015 not great powered ASUS i5 computer w/8 gig ram; Windows 10 and Edge browser; going thru a Focusrite Scarlet gen2 for mic in, using computer built in sound card and some desktop speakers out as monitor.  got some bleed but not much.

3. a track using same computer but running AVL Linux; and Firefox browser; through an old Lexicon Omega (USB 1.1) for mic in... using built in sound card but with wired headphones. 

4. a track running on old iMac c2007? w/4gig ram; El Capitain OS (is as much as can update) with sons pretty inexpensive gaming USB mic (IIRC $35) and cheap wired earbud, for one, the other using Bluetooth headphone. One track using Chrome browser, another with Safari.

In all those others the tracks seem to synced up just fine pretty much just plug and play out of box.  Latency tests on different desktop setups came up around 88ms to 120ms, I didn't take pay much attention as it's unimportant. Even forgot to do it on a one. For checking, put in extra tapping before and after and can see spikes lined up okay to each other and grid (granted I am not millisecond perfect in tapping, nor in my playing). I didn't feel need move any after. But here's how it worked - Ignore the rough draft playing, micing it was quick, not taking time to set up for great sound, or playing.

Certainly can use Garageband, or other if prefer and want to do all the copy and pasting. I just think it probably shouldn't be necessary. Or maybe is trying do something else??

Your “test” sounds really nice, Geo! I am inspired.

I am on a desktop 27” Mac (2017 maybe?) with broadband WiFi and fast dual processors and a bucketload of memory. Yet In Studio part of bandlab, I go to Tools and click Latency and get an error message…

The Latency test works on my iPad…101ms! But on iPad I can’t connect my mic or wired headphones ( yea thanks a lot Apple, for removing every hole I could plug anything in!)

maybe I will just sacrifice sound quality and use iPad’s internal mic, or if I record on desktop I will need to drag the track back and forth by hand or figure out the trick of setting the beats in the beginning ("spikes" in the track.")

Hmm My latency may be worse because I live in a densely populated town? Because only 13 people live in Alaska, you guys don’t have to share….just kidding!!

Also, I read a bit last night and it said to quit other apps to improve latency…so, maybe it’s a good idea to quit photoshop, indesign, illustrator, acrobat,zoom and the zillion things I had open while I was recording LOL!