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quote:
Originally posted by The Violin BeautifulI watched a colleague crack a pegbox on a nice old cello doing exactly that.
It may have been on Maestronet, but someone posted a video from YouTube where a “luthier” suggested winding strings against the pegbox. That video was uniformly declared to be dangerous nonsense.
Pegs put a decent amount of strain on the pegbox with normal use because their conical design requires one to push them in while tuning and increase the force. This force is evenly distributed along the circumference of the hole if the peg and hole are fitted well to each other. However, if there’s a subpar fit, one of the holes may end up with the brunt of the pressure while the other is too loose, and that can quickly lead to a crack. When the string is binding against the pegbox, it increases the force on one hole in the same way, even if the holes are round and cut well.
If everything fits, there’s no reason to add tension by forcing a string against the pegbox. If the pegs don’t fit, doing that only makes their fit worse. Getting a peg to stay put doesn’t mean it fits well, just that something has immobilized it.
In the past, pegs were commonly cut with a more aggressive taper (this is one way you can tell a set of pegs is old), and eventually luthiers realized that it was a problem because the size ratio of the holes was building up too much pressure on one side. As a result, a new taper became the standard and now almost all reamers and peg shavers are made for this taper. This helps to somewhat limit the damage, and it’s a reason why pegs of a certain age tend to be either recut to a proper taper or replaced. Even this is no guarantee against pegbox cracks down the road, but it’s just one example of an effort to reduce pressure on one side.
Pressure at only one point... that makes sense. hmmm...
Is the modern taper 1:30?
Getting to a skilled luthier to check the fit and clean the peg/hole is always a good idea. Lava soap can work, but that's more for a sticking peg than a slipping one. Lots of confusion and misconceptions about what type of compound is good for what kind of problem. This is my stuff for slipping pegs, Michael Darnton's favorite:
etsy.com/listing/1246617713/wo..._active_2
quote:
Originally posted by aston4quote:
Originally posted by The Violin BeautifulI watched a colleague crack a pegbox on a nice old cello doing exactly that.
It may have been on Maestronet, but someone posted a video from YouTube where a “luthier” suggested winding strings against the pegbox. That video was uniformly declared to be dangerous nonsense.
Pegs put a decent amount of strain on the pegbox with normal use because their conical design requires one to push them in while tuning and increase the force. This force is evenly distributed along the circumference of the hole if the peg and hole are fitted well to each other. However, if there’s a subpar fit, one of the holes may end up with the brunt of the pressure while the other is too loose, and that can quickly lead to a crack. When the string is binding against the pegbox, it increases the force on one hole in the same way, even if the holes are round and cut well.
If everything fits, there’s no reason to add tension by forcing a string against the pegbox. If the pegs don’t fit, doing that only makes their fit worse. Getting a peg to stay put doesn’t mean it fits well, just that something has immobilized it.
In the past, pegs were commonly cut with a more aggressive taper (this is one way you can tell a set of pegs is old), and eventually luthiers realized that it was a problem because the size ratio of the holes was building up too much pressure on one side. As a result, a new taper became the standard and now almost all reamers and peg shavers are made for this taper. This helps to somewhat limit the damage, and it’s a reason why pegs of a certain age tend to be either recut to a proper taper or replaced. Even this is no guarantee against pegbox cracks down the road, but it’s just one example of an effort to reduce pressure on one side.Pressure at only one point... that makes sense. hmmm...
Is the modern taper 1:30?
Yes, that's the standard. There are 1:20 tools available, mostly for work on instruments with older pegs to avoid taking more out of the pegbox if you're reaming. However, as an even more conservative option, one can simply install spiral bushings to reduce the size of the holes and ream to the correct taper at a smaller diameter, especially if the pegs are thicker than need be.
quote:
Originally posted by J-BowGetting to a skilled luthier to check the fit and clean the peg/hole is always a good idea. Lava soap can work, but that's more for a sticking peg than a slipping one. Lots of confusion and misconceptions about what type of compound is good for what kind of problem. This is my stuff for slipping pegs, Michael Darnton's favorite:
etsy.com/listing/1246617713/wo..._active_2
You've got it backwards. Lava soap contains pumice, which gives it more grit and adds a bit of friction to a peg that's slipping too easily. Things like Hill peg compound are much slicker and help with "pegs which have ceased to turn smoothly," to quote the Hills.
Edited by - The Violin Beautiful on 02/18/2024 16:57:31
I've had good luck in the past getting a polishing action with Lava, I initially used it for lubrication, it seemed to get gummier in our humid midwestern summers. I also had decent results using it for grip when used in conjunction with Hill, but not necessarily consistently.
Not having read all of the responses (and I'll bet they are all credible) I can only add that JAMMING a pet into the pegbox is a good way to crack a pegbox..(ask my howz I know!!)....If pegs slip, get professional help..Just an old man's opinion...
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