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Dec 10, 2023 - 5:33:23 PM
18 posts since 4/6/2018

I am working through Kevin Burke's version of The Pidgeon On The Gate.

In part of the B part of the tune, there are two descending staccato triplets (burls, or whatever you call the quick kind of Irish ornament). Does anynone have some guidance on the bowing pattern for the secpnd triplet?

For instance, is it down-up-down with a slur into the folowing triplet? e.g. [d-u-d] + (slur) + [(d)-u-d]

Sorry, I don't know how to describe this with typed letters.

Dec 10, 2023 - 6:17:05 PM
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Peghead

USA

1697 posts since 1/21/2009

JWC I don’t know the exact version you’re learning but I can speak to it generally. It sounds simple but there are a several ways bowed triplets can be done depending on context.   You can slur before or after or not at all! Mr.Burke favors the sound of a slur just before the triplet. If you can do them in either direction you’re at an advantage they sound slightly different, if there are two in a row just do one, then the other! They will always turn your bow around. You can reverse engineer the direction and insert slurs  so that you.come out down bow, you can slur at the end or the beginning. Lots of possibilities. What recording? I’ll check it out. 

Edited by - Peghead on 12/10/2023 18:30:56

Dec 10, 2023 - 11:48:15 PM

2377 posts since 4/6/2014

if it's this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeauA5ywX60

sounds like he is slurring them

There is a way to play them without turning your bow around by playing Down, up, Up-Down,up, up. (with a skip between the two up bows), But it doesn't sound like he is doing that. Good luck

Edited by - pete_fiddle on 12/10/2023 23:50:49

Dec 11, 2023 - 4:33:11 AM

Peghead

USA

1697 posts since 1/21/2009

I listened to it, great recording! Thanks. You know, there’s a play back speed button in the lower right corner of the recording. They’re not bowed triplets as I thought they might be. It sounds to me like each triplet could be played on one bow with a break between. The first group starting with down bow the second with up. You would come out down bow down beat. You can slur 2 additional notes to the end of the second triplet and it sounds good and comes out the same. You could also play the on one down bow and slur the next two notes to return to the down beat.  These are just my opinion. The tempo makes certain bowings possible. Either way it calls for good left hand articulation.

Edited by - Peghead on 12/11/2023 04:48:43

Dec 11, 2023 - 4:52:08 AM
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Peghead

USA

1697 posts since 1/21/2009

Typo- play them both on one down bow and…….

Dec 11, 2023 - 8:00:56 AM

2377 posts since 4/6/2014

i think i would play both triplets with a down bow and a pulse between them, in an attempt to sound like Mr Burke.

i think his LH articulation relies on making sure to pull the fingers off nice and snappy in the same direction (downwards).

Even without bowing at all, i think the triplets would be audible.... maybe?

Dec 11, 2023 - 10:38:04 AM
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1111 posts since 7/30/2021

Isn’t it a great tune! :-)

I listened to two different versions by Kevin and in part B I hear cuts, taps, rolls and triplets sound slurred…

Not helpful,I know!
But if you can say exactly what notes of tune, could probably tell ya what he’s doing with them (he plays a bit differently in every recording FWIW :-)

Dec 12, 2023 - 7:29:07 AM
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18 posts since 4/6/2018

Thanks to everyone for your comments. Here is a photo of the measure in question (followed by the following measure). I have marked the bowing directions to show what Ithink I am hearing at this point (may be right, may be wrong). I sounds to me like a staccato triplet d-u-d, with the final down bow slurred into the first two notes of the following triplet. In the second triplet, the 2d finger (G) on the E string might be sliding down into the F#. It's hard to tell because, as Pete observed, it could be two slurred triplets with snappy finger articulation.


 

Edited by - JWC on 12/12/2023 07:31:56

Dec 12, 2023 - 8:00:44 AM

87 posts since 4/17/2023

Lots of players will play several notes like that with a long upbow.

Burke has a lot of bowing breakdown videos on youtube.

Dec 14, 2023 - 8:13:30 AM

1111 posts since 7/30/2021

Hmm so I listened to the YouTube that Pete posted and in that particular version (first time round) in that part, I thought that he was doing this -

Separating two of the same note in a row, with a "cut" (in this case he's using the G note) is common in Irish fiddling...
It's actually not necessary to change the bow - because of the cut, fiddlers can play it all in one bow - but I can't tell unless watching him! 

 


 

Jan 11, 2024 - 12:24:29 PM
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110 posts since 4/7/2016

"trip ul let" repeated aloud or in my mind helps me with timing triplets.

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