Hi, Fiddlers!
This past weekend, I had 2 amazing players play my violin and when I handed it to them, they both agreed with me that it needs a set up. I knew that when I bought it. It sounds good but it has the potential to sound even better. I've had my first fiddle set up twice now and I found someone else to set up this new one of mine. Good thing is, I have a fiddle to play while my other is away! But what should I really be investing in? Hell, I'm still learning what actually happens when it goes for a set up. I know there are MANY things that can be done during a set up. I'm not going to go crazy but here is what I'm imagining and I know everyone charges something different but just trying to get this idea in my head...because I'm learning.
It was suggested that I change out the tailpiece and I get his reasoning for that. It will also need a new bridge. That alone will cure the high action. Maybe it'll need some planning, maybe it won't. I imagine they will adjust the sound post placement, maybe they won't but let's just say I'm going to have this done. And like an auto garage, do luthiers prefer to supply their own parts and strings or is it ok to provide everything and say here, swap all of this out?
I've learned of another guy local and I plan to ask these questions but since I'm so new, I don't know what etiquette is in the luthier world. Basically I want:
New strings (But of course, which ones? LOL)
New tail piece and fine tuners.
New cut bridge
Move/Adjust sound post.
What do you think is an average cost to cover something like this?
New tail piece ...get a Wittner composite tailpiece with the built in tuners....not very expensive and works well... my luthier would charge about a hundred for a new bridge and sound post adjustment... new strings are a different kettle of Flatted Fifths and that depends on what tone you are looking for, then you can spend a lot of money.... let the luthier make a string suggestion and go from there..
Play Happy
Swing
quote:
Originally posted by SwingNew tail piece ...get a Wittner composite tailpiece with the built in tuners....not very expensive and works well... my luthier would charge about a hundred for a new bridge and sound post adjustment... new strings are a different kettle of Flatted Fifths and that depends on what tone you are looking for, then you can spend a lot of money.... let the luthier make a string suggestion and go from there..
Play Happy
Swing
That's cool. That helps! I think with Strings I could get all of this to stay under 200? Just planning and preparing for the holidays. This could be held off until next year I think, but it's def needed and I know this will help. Thanks for the reply, Swing!
Edited by - Erockin on 11/13/2023 09:38:49
quote:
Originally posted by ErockinHi, Fiddlers!
This past weekend, I had 2 amazing players play my violin and when I handed it to them, they both agreed with me that it needs a set up. I knew that when I bought it. It sounds good but it has the potential to sound even better. I've had my first fiddle set up twice now and I found someone else to set up this new one of mine. Good thing is, I have a fiddle to play while my other is away! But what should I really be investing in? Hell, I'm still learning what actually happens when it goes for a set up. I know there are MANY things that can be done during a set up. I'm not going to go crazy but here is what I'm imagining and I know everyone charges something different but just trying to get this idea in my head...because I'm learning.
It was suggested that I change out the tailpiece and I get his reasoning for that. It will also need a new bridge. That alone will cure the high action. Maybe it'll need some planning, maybe it won't. I imagine they will adjust the sound post placement, maybe they won't but let's just say I'm going to have this done. And like an auto garage, do luthiers prefer to supply their own parts and strings or is it ok to provide everything and say here, swap all of this out?
I've learned of another guy local and I plan to ask these questions but since I'm so new, I don't know what etiquette is in the luthier world. Basically I want:
New strings (But of course, which ones? LOL)
New tail piece and fine tuners.
New cut bridge
Move/Adjust sound post.
What do you think is an average cost to cover something like this?
Prices vary quite a lot depending on skill level and location. You might pay $1000 for a well-cut bridge in New York but more like $100-$200 in a smaller area. If you go by price alone, you'll always find someone who will be willing to go low, but you then sacrifice all quality and chance of a good tonal outcome.
It also depends on the kind of materials you want. A better bridge blank costs several times more than a cheap one, and the expectations are higher for a better-quality bridge, so you get what you pay for to some extent. You might come in under $200, but if you need the fingerboard planed, $200 may be pushing it a bit. There's also the question of what may need to be done that you haven't realized. If the neck is low, the projection should be raised to get a better sound--otherwise doing a new setup will be a waste of money. Strings also vary in price. You can get a decent set for under $40, but depending on how much of an improvement you want to make, you might be better off spending more on a good set of strings.
Any good luthier will use his own parts--it's a liability to use materials one can't absolutely trust. A luthier has to stand behind his work, so using parts that he can trust is essential. You might be able to find the same materials your luthier uses, but if he has a serious business, he'll be getting them at a wholesale price that will not be available to the general public and you'll end up paying more.
Invest in a workman you can trust, not just now, but for any time in the future that you need work done. Violins need regular care to be in their best playing shape, so find someone who knows how to get the violin into its best shape and how to keep it there.
Makes sense. Nice information. I figured as much on some that but using the products they provide makes sense. I really need to go to a shop and experience all sorts of strings.
As always, thanks for the information
About strings:
The truth is, you can't "experience" the strings without putting them on YOUR violin. It can be an expensive endeavor test running strings.
I wonder if you really know enough to be so specific about what you need.
Why do you think you need a new taipiece? Is there something wrong with the one you have? If you just want to change to a Wittner with built in fine tuners that's something you can do yourself, and change strings at the same time. Just try not to squeeze the body and make the soundpost fall, although if you're planning a trip to a luthier anyway that doesn't matter so much.
And why do you want a new bridge cut? If its just to lower the action, a luthier may be able to reshape your existing bridge if its of good quality and not warped. There are also other causes of high action, such as low neck angle, which a luthier can spot. The "nominal" values for action height, string height at the bridge, and overstand are all available online, and you can check them yourself with a ruler to get an idea of what's going on.
The soundpost may not be fitted probably, and you may need a new one, but it also may just need a little nudge. So its hard to estimate what any of this might cost.
Some years ago I had the opportunity to buy instruments of many kinds at an amazing local auction. I guess I ended up buying four violins. They usually neede some work - one had only a plain gut D string, but it seemed promising, even though I could see the fingerboard looked like ski jump. Anyway, I also was fortunate to know a good luthier who lived out in the country nearby. He was German, had trained in an apptentice program in Germany, was highly skilled and very reasonably priced. I would just take the instrument to him and we'd look it over and he'd tell me what he thought it needed - if he found anything else he'd call me for my opinion. I also let him suggest what strings he thought would suit that instrument - nothing crazy - he knew my price range and playing style. I bought my strings from him anyway, since his was the only violin shop in the neighborhood and his prices were as good as mail order.
When he was done I'd go over at the end of the day with maybe a couple good beers or some pipe tobacco, and we'd pass the fiddle back and forth and he'd nudge the soundpost a little until we were happy.
Sorry for the long story, but the point is I left the luthiery up to him, and usually just followed his advice. A good relationship with a luthier is really valuable if you care about your instruments.
quote:
Originally posted by ChickenManAbout strings:
The truth is, you can't "experience" the strings without putting them on YOUR violin. It can be an expensive endeavor test running strings.
AMEN to that! My E has always sounded a bit too strident and tinny, so I went to one of the on line sellers and basically bought 1 of every E string they sell, over 14 different ones and well over $100 in total. I am still going thru them to find the one I like. I leave them on for a couple months to give each a fair chance. Thank goodness I am happy with the rest of the strings, doing this with full sets of fiddle strings would be WAY too much $$ !
Good points, Doug.
The bridge is warped so reshaping is out of the question. It hasn't had proper attention in years. Just sat in a case.
When I handed my fiddle over to some pros recently, the first thing they said was "get this thing set up!" lol Then I'll be set for a LONG time!
PS - Short version. Instead of asking how much things will cost here, where we can't even see the problem, I'd find a good luthier in your area. Then I'd take your violin to them and instead of saying "I need this and this and this" I'd say "This fiddle is hard to play. What do you think it needs?" and listen to what they say. Then ask how much it will cost. If its more than you can afford right now, tell them and start saving up. Or maybe they can do some of the most important work now, and postpone some - maybe deal with the bridge, if that's the problem, and wait on the tailpiece or strings.
PPS - Just saw your last post. It is possible to straighten a warped bridge, but probably not worth it. Let the luthier decide.
Edited by - DougD on 11/16/2023 08:56:35
quote:
Originally posted by ChickenManAbout strings:
The truth is, you can't "experience" the strings without putting them on YOUR violin. It can be an expensive endeavor test running strings.
I should have said, "visit a shop and hopefully experience different strings to get a feel for the differences." Not buy different brands...lol....that would be expensive.
I try to ask each violin player that lets me try their ride, what strings they are running. Actually, any instrument I get to play, I ask for size and make. Just in case I come across the holy grail.
Sheesh...if it weren't Christmas, I'd be buying another fiddle. Of course it would need set up but this person was asking $600 for an Italian Made Violin made in 2015. The name escapes me but It's a a beautiful piece in a nice case with a nice bow...I told them if it's still around after the new year, I'd take it. 2 just isn't enough!! lol
Let me say this: don't get hung up on buying fiddles, get the set up and see what you get. Buying fiddles can be an addiction. You're a beginner, best to avoid fiddle acquisition syndrome of you can.
quote:
Originally posted by ErockinSheesh...if it weren't Christmas, I'd be buying another fiddle. Of course it would need set up but this person was asking $600 for an Italian Made Violin made in 2015. The name escapes me but It's a a beautiful piece in a nice case with a nice bow...I told them if it's still around after the new year, I'd take it. 2 just isn't enough!! lol
That sounds very fishy. Even a workshop violin made in Italy will cost in the thousands. Are you sure that the violin doesn't just have an Italian-sounding label? Are there papers for it? Even the least expensive legitimate Italian makers provide them. If you have found a real Italian violin at that price, it's likely either stolen or catastrophically damaged.
There are a lot of Chinese brands that have models with Italian sounding names like Renaldi, Callegari, and any fast Italian tempo marking. A price of $600 might be reasonable for a used violin like this, although, again, there might well be damage given that even these violins sell for over $1000 typically. There are also some unscrupulous Italian shops who buy Chinese violins and try to pass them off as Italians. Because of this dishonest practice, there is now a Cremonese alliance of legitimate makers to give buyers confidence that none of the membership are crooks.
I can't add more to Doug's advice, but make sure your luthier wears khaki pants and a plaid shirt. Points if he has, wood curls in the cuffs of his britches. If he has any immediacy, he could be a fake. If he uses the phrase,"all things, being equal. . ." or "no redeeming attributes" you may have a genuine luthier. 
Edited by - farmerjones on 12/20/2023 09:05:32
I'm in north Texas MetroMess area. I recently had a fiddle cleaned, seams checked and set up. This included cutting/fitting a new bridge, installing new Helicore strings including a Wittner composite tailpiece and adjusting the sound post. (The sound post was ok as it was so did not need to fit a new one.) He also cleaned and "greased" the pegs and peg holes. Total cost was $125.
Get references and recommendations from other fiddlers in your area. This is how I found my current luthier. The luthier I used previously retired several years ago and sold his business to people who were not interested in working on low-end, trade instruments.
I think the key factor is to find a luthier who knows what he/she is doing and will work on low to mid-level instruments. Most likely this will be someone who services schools or instrument rentals, as well as offering service for professional grade instruments.
I gotta say thanks for all your wisdom and advice. It's a whole different planet in the world of fiddles. I am going to get a few pics of this one in case it is a decent one and my guess is, they are leaving the country Dec 31 so, I might be able to offer a pinch of that and get it. The case alone was $200 and what seemed to be a decent wood bow. More to come but I assure I ain't buying it unless ya'll say it's worth 10k or I get it for $200...lol...stay tuned
