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This is an observation I've had along the way, I wonder if others have too. I think it's significant to discover what key or keys you really most love to play in, and that you respond to emotionally.
We've had a little wave of topics lately that focus on this, that, and the other key as individual topics, which I find kind of fun. Interesting, though, since keys of tunes as a general rule are actually highly malleable. Still, I've noticed that musicians can sometimes be passionate about their favorite keys. Mine is G.
I have seen an interview on youtube with Native American flute player, Carlos Nakai. In it, he speaks about what a personal experience it is to choose the right Native American flute. Each one is handmade and therefore unique (though modern manufacturing has changed this a lot) and that when a beginning player chooses the right flute for them, they will naturally pick one that resonates with the key of their natural speaking voice. Beyond that, it's a selection process that has to feel right to them. I can link that video if you want, but that's really the main point I wanted to bring out.
I loved the attention to detail that that implies, and also leaves room for a little mystery in how the music and our bodies work together - how they even need each other.
My guess is those of us who cross tune find it hard to get locked into any one key since it's always fun to see how "standard" tunes in any of the common keys works when played cross tuned. For some wacky, reason I started playing tunes, in of all things, the key of F because one of my fiddles sounds so good, and by that I guess I mean low and growly, when tuned FCFC. Of course this is mostly an at home thing cuz no one in there right mind would allow someone playing in F, and cross tuned to boot, to play in a respectable jam session. lol
I used to have a fine voice, and a range where I could sing some harmony. D still, is pretty much my key, be it fiddle or voice. That's not to say I don't try some Bb. Sometimes C. Bb has become pretty easy for me on the fiddle. C is tuffer, but I enjoy the puzzle. If some tune is in Am, Gm, or etc., I tell folks,"I don't want to know, I want to listen to it." Then I'll find it. Am I presumptive to say that, or are they presumptive for calling out a "posh key?"
It reminds me of "what's your favorite color?" or "what's your favorite, meter?"; or "favorite bpm tempo?"
For me, it depends on what the purpose, quality, the feel I'm after for that song/tune. I don't have a favorite, they are just different qualities/feels; and I respond to lots different feels of music.
First should mention, (choosing flute in OP); not sure if is just key; tonal characteristics is not just the fundamental notes, or key, range and limits; but qualities of harmonics layout (low/mid/high/air), resonance, sustain, transients. Like voices, different fiddles; or guitars; or banjos (as well with setup, string type, gauge, tension)... yield different tonal qualities. Despite same key, but one instrument will sound mellow, dark, warm, smooth (perhaps dull/quiet); another might sound punchy; another bright, presence, gritty (perhaps thin/harsh)... in that same key.
That said, I never make any such association with a specific fixed pitch/frequency; nor similar old European Art music idea of keys/emotion (*see below). For me emotional response is rather from the overall, compositional relationships between notes, and performance of what player expresses thru that. On most any instrument, a lot is about how the tune plays in any given key/mode and tuning... which serves to give a tune it part of it's quality/character, feel, flow or groove; such as adjacent strings affect string crossing and flow, bowing/picking, slurs, accent, open drones, and voicing, double stops/chords. Granted tonal quality plays a part; there are overall range/register aspects; besides limits on lowest/highest note; just if overall tonal quality suited to the feel after (low/dark/mellow, vs mid presence vs high bright). But, for example, moving a capo one fret (same inst, strings, tension) doesn't change how plays, nor significantly the tonal overall quality feel of instrument (as above), nor song/tune; but if transposed by fifth up or down probably will.
Another aspect often involves music as whole, how sits with other instruments in mix; and balances with those instruments similar considerations; not just low/high range limit, but similar quality of playability flow and voicing within registers range and tonal aspects to match song feel. Voice tends to take priority; or at least limit to balance between a few options in range. Sometimes there are other tradeoffs that haver to be considered.
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Not to say others might not be believe they are affected by specific fixed key, think has direct connection to emotion. Might be interested in that old Western Europe Art music ideas - find it like this Musical Key Characteristics (wmich.edu) or Musical Key Characteristics & Emotions | LedgerNote
I find it a curiosity, degree anyone people actual are; and perhaps a different discussion than the OP?
Me, personally never put much stock into it, seen any solid research that supports that all; contains lots of logic fails; and quite a bit of experience and observation that would contradict, if not debunk those claims.
I do agree that the key of Db is full of grief, depressive, despair; "cannot howl, but it can at least grimace its crying".... at least in playing it on standard tuned fiddle, banjo or guitar.
Edited by - alaskafiddler on 09/24/2023 22:06:54
I love diferent tunings I love AEDA and AEAE most. I like a crosstuned fiddle better. Standard is just standard and I find I sound totally boring in GDAE, I am always very satisfied after I tuned down or up.
I still don't get how one knows in what key a tune is: I never pay attention to the key , I just know which tunings I really like.
Another observation: someone recently mentioned in a video tutorial: "no sheet music for this tune as it is played crosstuned", but for me sheet music is always interesting, certainly also when crosstuned, it helps me to transcribe tunes in my head while I am playing and to experiment with and vary on existing tunes.
For the rest I pretty much agree with Rich!
Crosstuning FTW! (I think I am going to add this as my signature in posts hehe )
I suppose some of my reactions to tunes (and my fondness for key of G) comes from being introduced to cross tuning in G, and therefore being kind a misfit in my area. Of course I love all sorts of tunes and all sorts of keys. And there are times when it's just an equal exchange to switch those cross tunes to A, but there are times when they really need to live in the key of G, to get the right, I don't know ... attitude or something. And around here, I seem to be odd one out in GDGD when I want to cross tune - I can tune to AEAE (though very few even use that) but it seems like it doesn't always communicate what I want. Anyway, thanks for taking on my question-that-is-not-really-a-question. I'm just musing out loud about the whole thing. It's great to hear what you're thinking too.
I noticed that I tend to like/accumulate tunes in 'weird' modal and minor keys ...
I tend not to like 'happy' Western keys like key of D as much...(which is probably I play the Irish Trad and not OT/bluegrass :-)
...but after a while in my weird modal world, I get the itch to play something happy and normal!
( I've actually gotten to know players' preferences after weeks of playing with 'em..."She likes happy jigs in D! He likes complicated A minor reels...". Would people know YOUR preference? :-) People probably think of me as the person who likes strange saddish romantic misty-sounding tunes.
quote:
Originally posted by Flat_the_3rd_n7thThe voice rules all. It was the very first instrument. I don't care if an old-timer steps up at a sangin and starts wailing in Bb-and-a-quarter. If I'm backing him, I'm going to find it. I don't worship at the alter of the open string.
Yep. I like playing in the key of G, and it's a requirement for bluegrass jams, but I can't sing in that key. Most songs in that key are either too high or too low for me. I'd love to be able to sing the high lonesome G. I can sing in C (horrors!), or D though, which works out nice for the fiddle.
NC Notes - People probably think of me as the person who likes strange saddish romantic misty-sounding tunes.
Yes, yes, YES this is me.!! On of my go-to’s in this genre is an old Scottish tune called “Crossing to Ireland”. I find it haunting. Do you play this tune? I’d like a list of a few tunes you place in the “saddish, romantic, misty sounding “ category if you don’t mind sharing.
quote:
Originally posted by RichJFor some wacky, reason I started playing tunes, in of all things, the key of F because one of my fiddles sounds so good, and by that I guess I mean low and growly, when tuned FCFC. Of course this is mostly an at home thing cuz no one in there right mind would allow someone playing in F, and cross tuned to boot, to play in a respectable jam session. lol
I like the key of F too. Even in standard fiddle tuning, it sound good on my fiddle. Also the pentatonic scale in F just rolls off the fingers, easy as pie, and I love playing that F on the E string. I don't know why.
I like to cross tune and play stuff in keys that change with my mood. But a lot of keys are set in stone because they just work better to fit the hand, of course. If you tend to tinker around with that, you might end up feeling like you made a great fiddling discovery, or feel like you understand why that tune is just about always played in that key...lol.
This is true for me on guitar more than any other instrument...I'm not crazy about how a capo sounds, but of course any guitarist in thier right mind has one on hand and uses it plenty...especially if other instruments are involved or there's singing. So...besides the physical demands that work out in this key or that on this instrument or that...there's the singing question...I often attempt to sing and go ahead and record my croaking voice or straining voice in keys that don't work for me vocally, for the sake of instruments I want to play...on my multitrack recordings.
Then there is the key that just touches your soul...and you struggle to do everything there when you just feel like it's necessary to do it way...lol.
quote:
Originally posted by dorymanquote:
Originally posted by Flat_the_3rd_n7thThe voice rules all. It was the very first instrument. I don't care if an old-timer steps up at a sangin and starts wailing in Bb-and-a-quarter. If I'm backing him, I'm going to find it. I don't worship at the alter of the open string.
Yep. I like playing in the key of G, and it's a requirement for bluegrass jams, but I can't sing in that key. Most songs in that key are either too high or too low for me. I'd love to be able to sing the high lonesome G. I can sing in C (horrors!), or D though, which works out nice for the fiddle.
John, I kinda envy you if G is on the fence for melody lead--depending on your voice, in G, you can either sing harmony tenor like Ralph Stanley, or harmony bass like Josh Turner. Let someone else sing lead, cause in G that's a dime-a-dozen, and you will be revered with the ability to sing harmony.
Your next time around, call C, D or E to fit your voice, and watch with amusement the capos quickly whipped out, cutting the guitar fretboards in half. Except for the hippies, who already know how to play the patterns and bar chords!
I'm sure you sorta know this already, but it's still fun to type about it...
Peggy - In my days with Highwoods I never used a capo. It saved time, plus playing in actual D and A on a guitar opens up possibilities you just don't get with a capo. There is a tradition of playing this way - Paul Sutphin was a guitarist I learned a lot from, including the "big A" chord. But of course we weren't playing in Eb or Bb (which I can do, but in a different style).
We recorded "Meeting in the Air" in A and I played a Carter Family style break, but it was out of A, not with a capo.
Edited by - DougD on 09/25/2023 19:27:27
quote:
Originally posted by SnafuNC Notes - People probably think of me as the person who likes strange saddish romantic misty-sounding tunes.
Yes, yes, YES this is me.!! On of my go-to’s in this genre is an old Scottish tune called “Crossing to Ireland”. I find it haunting. Do you play this tune? I’d like a list of a few tunes you place in the “saddish, romantic, misty sounding “ category if you don’t mind sharing.
Ha ha, I'm glad I am not alone!!
I do like Crossing to Ireland! I don't get to play it much with other people (since sessions = mostly reels + jigs).
Here are some tunes I've been playing a lot lately...all kind of saddish and in minor key / keys like mixolydian, dorian:
Otter's Holt (Bm reel) - flute player and I have been grooving on this version by Whalebone (guitar+bouzouki: https://youtu.be/b5T8FYoWMuU
Sweeney's Buttermilk (Bm reel): https://youtu.be/BKfSAbNXjH4
Hag at the Churn (jig, D mix): https://youtu.be/7Qkrqz6Aepg
Arra Mountain (the "mistiest" of slipjigs, A dor) first tune in set (played on Celtic harp here!): https://youtu.be/wBjPUgWjkwo
Father Quinn's Favorite (jig, E dor, first tune in set): https://youtu.be/GBSR-69z-H8
(Sorry for all the YouTube links...this has become how we 'talk' about music/share tunes with eachother between gatherings so it's become a habit!)
Edited by - NCnotes on 09/25/2023 19:47:54
D is the key my fingers default to, at least when I'm in standard tuning. This is even more true when I'm composing a tune on the fly. When I impulsively pick a classical tune from out of the air (I know a heck of a lot of them), chances are I'll do it in D, as well. Yeah, E minor ain't officially D's relative minor, but E minor is more than close enough to D fingering if I want my fingers to conjure up a sad or dramatic mood.
Doug, I would never use a capo for D or A on guitar...usually those open keys, for the way I pick, work out great...D, A, E, G, and my favorite, C, where seems like ANY tune works out easily and great. I can often find my way fairly well for those rare occasions where something ends up in the key of F, but when they get to where they need it in Eb, B, Bb...etc., gotta slap on that capo or I'm just not willing to struggle through all the closed up barre chords...not the way I play...the finger pickin' style normally...uh-uh...lol. That's where I draw the line.
And for fiddle modal tunes...I like to cross tune...either Sawmill/Mule Gear (GDGD or equivalent), or Cumberland Gap (ADAD or equivalent...I know...somehow I'm the only one on the planet left calling this tuning C-Gap, but for ease of discussion...) anyway for modal tunes I like to cross tune and move up to second position. Just works for me. In most tunes there will be one sneaky note that pops in there somewhere during the tune that's gonna work out better for me if you slide back down to 1st...then back up to 2nd...slightly annoying, but it's the way it works for me and it's usually only one note that'll require that enormous effort...lol. Stuff like Yew Piney Mt., Cold Frosty Morning, Boll Weevil, can't think of more but stuff like that, that just has a modal flavor to it...I like playing them in cross tuning up in the 2nd positon. You can get some good sounds that way...imho.
Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 09/26/2023 06:22:43
Yes, I understand about D and A, but its surprising how many people just use a capo and play in C and G.
Its also interesting how many old timers played A modal tunes in standard, I guess because of the open bass strings for the G chord (at least for Mixolydian mode tunes, not just pentatonic tunes). There just isn't as good a G in cross tuning. Or even a D, which is why people tune the third string back down for tunes with a strong D chord, or even a frequent D note.
quote:
Originally posted by sbhikes2I like fiddle tunes in G. I like the sound of G and the tunes that are played. I like to play C tunes on ukulele. My ukulele seems to fit in the best with those.
I've been regularly playing my soprano uke since I moved to the Big Island. I go to a uke jam every week in the basement rec room of a local Buddhist temple. The temple's Reverend (or is that a Roshi?) is always there, plinking along with us. Naturally, I seldom know the song that is played...much less know the Hawaiian language lyrics that everyone sings them in. Nevertheless, everybody is friendly as heck, and the songs never have more than two or three chords, in any case. They're totally easy to follow, and are never less than mellifluous. We were actually one of the bands that performed at the grand reopening of a newly refurbished boat dock. And yeah, all the songs are in C.
Edited by - Lonesome Fiddler on 10/10/2023 17:36:17
quote:
Originally posted by Lonesome Fiddlerquote:
Originally posted by sbhikes2I like fiddle tunes in G. I like the sound of G and the tunes that are played. I like to play C tunes on ukulele. My ukulele seems to fit in the best with those.
I've been regularly playing my soprano uke since I moved to the Big Island. I go to a uke jam every week in the basement rec room of a local Buddhist temple. The temple's Reverend (or is that a Roshi?) is always there, plinking along with us. Naturally, I seldom know the song that is played...much less know the Hawaiian language lyrics that everyone sings them in. Nevertheless, everybody is friendly as heck, and the songs never have more than two or three chords, in any case. They're totally easy to follow, and are never less than mellifluous. We were actually one of the bands that performed at the grand reopening of a newly refurbished boat dock. And yeah, all the songs are in C.
My uke is a soprano, too! I went to Hawaii once and while on a Sierra Club hike we came up a hill to a dirt road and I could hear ukulele music playing somewhere in the forest. It was magical!
Fiddle tunes work best in their common keys, it's not random. Now that western music is almost universally equal tempered (I argue) the differences one feels in playing in different keys has to do with playability on the instrument and the timber of notes produced differing as they're played in different keys, unlike dealing with the various temperaments that were used for specific keys in the past, especially on keyboards - Most fiddle tunes are rendered where they're easiest to play on the instrument.
Sharp keys are generally used more than flat keys because the open positions make them easier. F and Bb are used somewhat, and other flat keys rarely.
(Something that puzzles me on this forum is how often I read that people don't like the key of C. It's actually very accessible and I don't understand the problem.) Anyway, the tune chooses the key for playability, then you choose the tunes you like with its key being part of it. It's a little different for improvised playing because then you might want to work in the keys you are most used to, based on the tunes and riffs you've learned over time. In that sense I can see having a favorite key.
I'm not sure the key of G "chooses" me or whatever. It's mostly that early on it was the one key I felt I could play reasonably in tune. I still struggle with intonation on the A and E string. I'm getting better at it. It takes a sort of mental force to work on it after so many years playing in a huge jam where I can't really hear myself that well.
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