Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

52
Fiddle Lovers Online


Page:  First Page   1  2  3   4   Next Page   Last Page (4) 

Apr 5, 2023 - 6:45:02 AM
like this

gapbob

USA

896 posts since 4/20/2008

quote:
Originally posted by doryman

... ...
Do such teachers exist for an older, adult fiddler? Any advice about such matters would be appreciated.


Yes, they do exist.  Almost every fiddler has been taught by a fiddler that meets your criteria, though it has taken a longer time, since the teacher they learned from was themselves—we have all had to do what you describe for ourselves (albeit, with different degrees and intensity).  I wish I had found a fiddler who would help in that manner, it would have sped up my progress, I believe.

Edited by - gapbob on 04/05/2023 06:47:30

Apr 5, 2023 - 7:14:44 AM

6456 posts since 8/7/2009

quote:
Originally posted by doryman
quote:
Originally posted by tonyelder
 

Going at this sort of thing blindly - with no specific goals - (imo) may not be the best way to prepare for lessons you seem to be looking for. Not always, but... looking for a "good teacher" usually means you'll end up someone that has developed a planned / detailed teaching routine they will want to follow that may not fit or help you with what you are wanting to do. But - as a teacher - it fits them and what they want to do.

Then again... I may not really understand what you are wanting. 

 


Oh, I'm not going in blindly, or without goals, and I certainly do ask if I want to learn some specific task or lick.  But those are things are I know I don't know, and that's easy.  I'm thinking more about the things I don't know I don't know.  For example, when I started, I set out to learn the major and minor pentatonics for keys of C, D, G and A, knowing that would get me a long way when I was in a jam and with improvising.  And it did, and I was having a great time. But then, an experienced fiddler took me aside, complimented my playing and my intonation and then mentioned that my playing was repetitive (which it was!), and then gave me some ideas about other things to do and try during fills and breaks. That was something I didn't know and I didn't even know to ask about such a thing.  So I guess that's the kind of thing I'm looking for at this point.  


Then it sounds like you found someone... Are they available to "teach"?

Apr 5, 2023 - 7:52:15 AM
like this

doryman

USA

583 posts since 2/10/2020

quote:
Originally posted by RichJ

Funny how spending money for lessons can translate into an incentive to make one practice more. 


I was thinking more of finding an ancient, ill-tempered,  eastern European instructor who would whack my knuckles with their bow if it was apparent that I had not practiced enough since the last lesson. 

Apr 5, 2023 - 10:14:17 AM
like this

6388 posts since 9/26/2008

On the repetitive comment:
I'm going to guess you are playing in BG jams and are taking a break when offered. IMO too much emphasis is placed on licks and not enough on melody these days. Find the melody and use that as your break while adding a little to the last half or the end tag. If you're looking for improvisation lessons, a fiddler isn't necessarily going to be able to do that. It is a specific skill that requires a lot of listening and imitation and knowledge of your instrument. Put in your time, there are no short cuts.

Apr 5, 2023 - 11:16:10 AM
likes this

2432 posts since 4/6/2014

Other folks Licks are going to get predictable, mechanical and repetitive unless you know how they are constructed. i think you can free yourself from the restrictions of learning other folks licks, (and analyze those licks), by studying Melody and Harmony.

Melody and harmony differ in all genres. So say you feel like putting a Gypsy Jazz lick in a Bluegrass tune for example, you would be equipped to do so.

This would require a knowledge of Chord progressions, Scales, Arpeggios, Rhythms, Chord substitutions,...etc. In short a knowledge of Music Theory, and the technical skills to play them.

This may sound daunting at first , but remember that if you are teaching yourself, you can adjust how technical you want to get to suit yourself.

Edited by - pete_fiddle on 04/05/2023 11:18:42

Apr 5, 2023 - 12:21:51 PM

Erockin

USA

875 posts since 9/3/2022

quote:
Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Other folks Licks are going to get predictable, mechanical and repetitive unless you know how they are constructed. i think you can free yourself from the restrictions of learning other folks licks, (and analyze those licks), by studying Melody and Harmony.

Melody and harmony differ in all genres. So say you feel like putting a Gypsy Jazz lick in a Bluegrass tune for example, you would be equipped to do so.

This would require a knowledge of Chord progressions, Scales, Arpeggios, Rhythms, Chord substitutions,...etc. In short a knowledge of Music Theory, and the technical skills to play them.

This may sound daunting at first , but remember that if you are teaching yourself, you can adjust how technical you want to get to suit yourself.


                                          ^^Troof! ^^

Apr 6, 2023 - 8:36:07 AM

doryman

USA

583 posts since 2/10/2020

quote:
Originally posted by ChickenMan

On the repetitive comment:
I'm going to guess you are playing in BG jams and are taking a break when offered. IMO too much emphasis is placed on licks and not enough on melody these days. Find the melody and use that as your break while adding a little to the last half or the end tag. If you're looking for improvisation lessons, a fiddler isn't necessarily going to be able to do that. It is a specific skill that requires a lot of listening and imitation and knowledge of your instrument. Put in your time, there are no short cuts.


This is exactly the situation, Billy. 

Apr 6, 2023 - 8:43:29 AM
like this

doryman

USA

583 posts since 2/10/2020

quote:
Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Other folks Licks are going to get predictable, mechanical and repetitive unless you know how they are constructed. i think you can free yourself from the restrictions of learning other folks licks, (and analyze those licks), by studying Melody and Harmony.

Melody and harmony differ in all genres. So say you feel like putting a Gypsy Jazz lick in a Bluegrass tune for example, you would be equipped to do so.

This would require a knowledge of Chord progressions, Scales, Arpeggios, Rhythms, Chord substitutions,...etc. In short a knowledge of Music Theory, and the technical skills to play them.

This may sound daunting at first , but remember that if you are teaching yourself, you can adjust how technical you want to get to suit yourself.


Thanks Pete.  Luckily I have the knowledge because I've been playing music of one sort or another for fifty years.  It's certainly the "skills to play them part" that I need to work on!   I actually can't imagine taking up the fiddle at the age of 60 without any prior background in music.  I know that there are those that do it, and kudos to them, but it would be too much for me.  Before I even started on the fiddle I laid out a plan...these are the keys I should learn first, these are the the chords, theses are the scales, etc....  It really did jump start me towards simple jamming, which was my goal in the first place. 

Apr 6, 2023 - 10:54:37 AM
likes this

1398 posts since 3/1/2020

quote:
Originally posted by doryman
quote:
Originally posted by RichJ

Funny how spending money for lessons can translate into an incentive to make one practice more. 


I was thinking more of finding an ancient, ill-tempered,  eastern European instructor who would whack my knuckles with their bow if it was apparent that I had not practiced enough since the last lesson. 


One of my customers and his wife are both excellent violinsts and teachers. He told me that he likes to take the younger students, and he's very encouraging and tries to keep them excited and having fun during the lessons. Those that stick with it and progress enough are then passed along to his wife. She is a Russian-trained player and she cracks the whip with her students, but she's able to get more out of them and take them to a higher level. As a couple, they make a great one-two punch.

The tough Eastern-European teacher is a bit of a cliche, but they really do exist and they tend to get incredible results. All the teachers I know that fit that description are excellent. Not that that's the only way to teach, but it does turn out a lot of good players. 

Apr 6, 2023 - 4:49:19 PM

2503 posts since 8/23/2008

"................someone who could listen to me play, assess where I am right now, identify my weaknesses, and come up with a solid plan and playbook about what I need to do to improve....."

I reckon that is the question you should've posed to the forum; you would've had a land slide of suggestions and many ideas on how to assess your own playing.

Apr 6, 2023 - 6:27:51 PM

doryman

USA

583 posts since 2/10/2020

quote:
Originally posted by buckhenry

"................someone who could listen to me play, assess where I am right now, identify my weaknesses, and come up with a solid plan and playbook about what I need to do to improve....."

I reckon that is the question you should've posed to the forum; you would've had a land slide of suggestions and many ideas on how to assess your own playing.


I'm confused.  That IS what I posed to the forum, right?

Apr 6, 2023 - 6:42:19 PM
like this

2503 posts since 8/23/2008

quote:
Originally posted by doryman
quote:
Originally posted by buckhenry

"................someone who could listen to me play, assess where I am right now, identify my weaknesses, and come up with a solid plan and playbook about what I need to do to improve....."

I reckon that is the question you should've posed to the forum; you would've had a land slide of suggestions and many ideas on how to assess your own playing.


I'm confused.  That IS what I posed to the forum, right?

 


Oh, I am sorry. I read the OP was asking about "live lessons" and "what  should be expected from them".....

Post a few more music files if you want the forum to asses your playing.....

Apr 14, 2023 - 4:52:24 AM
like this

793 posts since 6/22/2007

"What I think I would like is someone who could listen to me play, assess where I am right now, identify my weaknesses, and come up with a solid plan and playbook about what I need to do to improve. Is that a reasonable thing to expect?

Do such teachers exist for an older, adult fiddler? Any advice about such matters would be appreciated."

They Do and I like to think it is a specialty of my teaching, analyzing what you are doing, where you need work and developing your focus on becoming a better fiddler not just learning new tunes.

The one thing we could not do by webcam is play together in real time. But you get real time feedback and interchange about your fiddling and where to go from "here".

PM me if you are interested in persuing a lesson or two by skype (or other webcam program).

Dan Fiddledan aka Clawdan Levenson
www.Clawdan.com

Apr 14, 2023 - 1:18:54 PM
like this

3564 posts since 9/13/2009

quote:
Originally posted by gapbob
quote:
Originally posted by doryman

... ...
Do such teachers exist for an older, adult fiddler? Any advice about such matters would be appreciated.


Yes, they do exist.  Almost every fiddler has been taught by a fiddler that meets your criteria, though it has taken a longer time, since the teacher they learned from was themselves—we have all had to do what you describe for ourselves (albeit, with different degrees and intensity).  I wish I had found a fiddler who would help in that manner, it would have sped up my progress, I believe.


Self-directed learning has advantages, and well suited for some. Placing student in charge of decisions; goals/lessons/metrics. It doesn't mean without others to show/teach you things; or to help guide. Some of that can be a bit of the old adages, "life is full of teachers/lessons"... and,  "when the student is ready, a teacher/lesson will appear".  Less worry about "good fiddlers who are really NOT very good teachers". 

While initially perhaps might take longer time (though no way to measure that), develops idea of learning how to learn (and think for oneself); including things like defining goals and metrics, how to break things down into smaller aspects, right questions to ask, and who to ask, and weighing feedback. There are no grades, levels, progress reports, semesters, certificates of completion... (nor over-worry of dichotomy right/wrong, mistakes, or bad habits).

That said, for some with little experience in self-directed; it might be worthwhile finding someone to help learn that process. Along those lines might consider perhaps seeking a mentor (rather than formal teacher/authority). 

-----------
 

Not that it's for everybody; some are more comfortable with, and/or better suited with Teacher/Authority directed model.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 04/14/2023 13:24:12

Apr 14, 2023 - 1:23:28 PM
like this

14811 posts since 9/23/2009
Online Now

I think the issue is how bad you wanna learn...you will learn if you are, as Dwight Diller called it, "desperate to learn." If you want somebody to be able to make you play...not sure how that will work out.

Apr 14, 2023 - 1:24:40 PM
like this

14811 posts since 9/23/2009
Online Now

How to cause someone to become "desperate to play" might be the magical ingredient...it's probably best to get that way by oneself...but seems others could pave the way to desperation somehow, by example or something.

Apr 14, 2023 - 1:45:23 PM
like this

11441 posts since 3/19/2009
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

I think the issue is how bad you wanna learn...you will learn if you are, as Dwight Diller called it, "desperate to learn." If you want somebody to be able to make you play...not sure how that will work out.


Old story about a guru and a potential student who said that he  wanted to be enlightened.. The guru had the  potential student look closely into a deep pan of water and then pushed the potential student's face into the water and Held it there until it   burst out of the pan, gasping for breath. The student said, "Why did you do that..! couldn't breath!!"... The guru replied.."When you want to be enlightened  as badly as you wanted to breath just now, come and see me."

Apr 16, 2023 - 6:25:11 PM
likes this

doryman

USA

583 posts since 2/10/2020

quote:
Originally posted by alaskafiddler
 

That said, for some with little experience in self-directed; it might be worthwhile finding someone to help learn that process. Along those lines might consider perhaps seeking a mentor (rather than formal teacher/authority). 

-----------
 

 


Yes, this is a good point, and a mentor IS probably more along the lines of what I'm looking for right no.  No one in my general vicinity immediately comes to mind, though, but I'll keep this in mind. 

Apr 16, 2023 - 6:32:19 PM
likes this

doryman

USA

583 posts since 2/10/2020

quote:
Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

I think the issue is how bad you wanna learn...you will learn if you are, as Dwight Diller called it, "desperate to learn." If you want somebody to be able to make you play...not sure how that will work out.


I absolutely do NOT need to take lessons so that I can pay someone to make me play!  However, it does seem that many lessons are set up that way.   More about accountability than anything else. 

Apr 16, 2023 - 7:27:57 PM
like this

14811 posts since 9/23/2009
Online Now

Not sure I made my meaning clear when I said "make you play..." I don't mean make you practice or take the time to grab hold of your instrument and play it...I meant to magically make you capable of playing. Like...a few times people would want me to teach their kids guitar "lessons," several times in my life. They were willing to play, but I would never accept money...I have no idea how to go about constructing some sort of learning program for guitar or any of that. All I know is how I spent every minute I had when i first got a guitar, stealing every idea I saw or heard, as best as I could do on my own...and playing until my fingers were swollen and bleeding. I was desperate to learn to play the guitar...when I "taught" (more like unintentionally turned off) the kids...usually kids of my bosses at jobs or something like that...I was amazed at how they, both kids and parents, seemed to expect ME to somehow make them play guitar. Which of course I couldn't do...they had to want to play...they had to struggle to get there, but none of them ever did...they just seemd passive about it all, waiting for me to wave the magic wand. Usually they came to one "lesson" and never returned...so...I hope I didn't destroy their desire to play forever...but something sure wasn't right...and just when I think of my own learning of instruments...mainly on my own...I wanted to play so bad I would go through whatever it took to learn...yet...I saw kids just sorta sit back and wait for me to make it happen for them...at least that's how it seemed to me. It could be I'm just a terrible teacher...and really no teacher, but if people do expect the teacher to make them be a musician...hmmmm...I think the person really needs to WANT it bad...not passively wait for someone to perform some magic. I could have it all wrong, but just going by personal experience on both ends of the equation...wanting to learn, and wanting to teach.

Apr 20, 2023 - 4:48:48 AM
like this

GeorgeH

USA

28 posts since 2/23/2018

A good teacher will teach you what you don't know. And you don't know what you don't know.

I have been playing for over 50 years, and I still take lessons. Many excellent professional violinists, including teachers, still take lessons. The best players that I play with are still taking lessons.

A good violin or fiddle teacher can be invaluable in making big improvements in your playing.

Apr 20, 2023 - 5:52:17 AM

Erockin

USA

875 posts since 9/3/2022

quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeH

A good teacher will teach you what you don't know. And you don't know what you don't know.

I have been playing for over 50 years, and I still take lessons. Many excellent professional violinists, including teachers, still take lessons. The best players that I play with are still taking lessons.

A good violin or fiddle teacher can be invaluable in making big improvements in your playing.


I agree!! Just being in the presence of a good fiddle player is exciting for me. Mine is very good and encourages the good and has a great way of mentioning the bad. It's not portrayed as bad though, just not correct...lol

Apr 24, 2023 - 1:42:29 PM
like this

doryman

USA

583 posts since 2/10/2020

quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeH

A good teacher will teach you what you don't know. And you don't know what you don't know.
 


OP here.  That was exactly my point upthread.  I'm good enough at figuring out on my own the things I know I don't know!  It's the things I don't know I don't know that worry me!  

Apr 24, 2023 - 5:55:33 PM
likes this

52 posts since 12/28/2020

There are two models that come to mind. One is to take regular lessons from whoever is available to give you lessons. Sure it may feel like just learning tunes, but I think you are learning much more than that working with someone live over time. Just because you're not having ah-ha moments doesn't mean you're not picking up a lot subconsciously, both in terms of fiddle and general music/playing with others.

Another model is to find a fiddle or violin teacher who can help you address something specific, and plan to spend some time with them figuring it out. I'm a teacher who has done 1 hour, 2 hour, or even half day one-off lessons specifically on something like getting a better tone, improving bowing slurs and shuffles, problem solving for pain and tightness, speed in reels, getting the hands better coordinated, or mastering a tricky tune or solo someone needs a lot of help with.

Or, for example, I'm looking for a guitar player to help me specifically with voicing and bar chords. I'll learn from them for an hour or two, then go home and practice until I have another problem to solve.

Apr 25, 2023 - 5:21:28 AM

Erockin

USA

875 posts since 9/3/2022

quote:
Originally posted by MeganBeller

There are two models that come to mind. One is to take regular lessons from whoever is available to give you lessons. Sure it may feel like just learning tunes, but I think you are learning much more than that working with someone live over time. Just because you're not having ah-ha moments doesn't mean you're not picking up a lot subconsciously, both in terms of fiddle and general music/playing with others.

Another model is to find a fiddle or violin teacher who can help you address something specific, and plan to spend some time with them figuring it out. I'm a teacher who has done 1 hour, 2 hour, or even half day one-off lessons specifically on something like getting a better tone, improving bowing slurs and shuffles, problem solving for pain and tightness, speed in reels, getting the hands better coordinated, or mastering a tricky tune or solo someone needs a lot of help with.

Or, for example, I'm looking for a guitar player to help me specifically with voicing and bar chords. I'll learn from them for an hour or two, then go home and practice until I have another problem to solve.


I've listened to your podcast and just by that, I've learned a lot. I have a fiddle teacher and I'm progressing at a nice pace. Learning from multiple instructors though would be ideal if I could afford it. Lessons are crucial just as much as practice. Learning to practice and how to practice is the larger challenge for me than actually learning the instrument. My other challenge has been patience. My downfall with many things. But I'm aware. 

This is the first instrument I play that I'm taking lessons. Best decision ever! Cheers

Page:  First Page   1  2  3   4   Next Page   Last Page (4) 

Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Privacy Consent
Copyright 2024 Fiddle Hangout. All Rights Reserved.





Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.4375