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So the session I go to regularly, will sometimes meet outside the building on nice days. And another one (learning session) is starting up in a local park in my town…they say their meeting cutoff is 55 degrees. I think the newfound popularity of outdoor sessions is that a lot of the players (and especially session leaders) tend to be older, so more Covid-cautious…
So, I have this 100+ year old violin! The poor thing already has a faint crack ( luthier said it’s fine) but I worry about playing it outdoors a lot!
How bad is it to play one’s fiddle/violin outdoors frequently?
Does anybody have a “beater” instrument just for outdoor jams? ( I think mine is valued at 3-4k…significant enough that I do try to take care of it). Should I get a “beater fiddle” to play outdoors in all kinds of weather? I dunno!
No worse than playing indoors if you use some common sense.
High/low humidity, too much direct sunlight (particularly while in case), fast/extreme temp changes, are the usual environmental culprits to instrument damage. These can all happen in or out of doors.
I played outdoors almost every Saturday for the last half of the summer last year - with fiddles that are over 100 years old.
That's not the only time I've done it, and it won't be the last.
I ain't scared.
I really don't consider any of the fiddles I play as a beater. I have 5 that I play regular. 4 are over 100 years old, and the 5th one may be over 100, but there is no way to determine that for sure. I didn't pay a lot of money for any of them (except one). I had to have a few repaired when I bought them. And all of them have "been around the block a time or two". So, I'm pleased with them, but I'm not afraid to play them wherever the music takes me.
I might think about it a little more seriously, if I paid serious bucks for one. But I'm not going to do that.
I've played outdoors a lot over the years at festivals, fiddle contests, parties, and so on. Also indoors in theaters and other buildings that tend to be too dry and sometimes hot. My rule of thumb is not to subject my instruments to environments that would make me uncomfortable as a (supposed) human. I agree with fiddlewood that you can safely play either outdoors or in if you pay.attention.
I'm not sure I'd be comfortable playing outside at 55° - maybe if its a sunny spot. My cutoff would more likely be 60°.
A second violin is very useful, and it doesn't have to be a "beater" - maybe just an instrument whose structural integrity you trust. Only you can decide how the fragility and value of your current violin should dictate how and where you play it.
When all else fails, consult your luthier!
quote:
Originally posted by NCnotesSo the session I go to regularly, will sometimes meet outside the building on nice days. And another one (learning session) is starting up in a local park in my town…they say their meeting cutoff is 55 degrees. I think the newfound popularity of outdoor sessions is that a lot of the players (and especially session leaders) tend to be older, so more Covid-cautious…
So, I have this 100+ year old violin! The poor thing already has a faint crack ( luthier said it’s fine) but I worry about playing it outdoors a lot!
How bad is it to play one’s fiddle/violin outdoors frequently?
Does anybody have a “beater” instrument just for outdoor jams? ( I think mine is valued at 3-4k…significant enough that I do try to take care of it). Should I get a “beater fiddle” to play outdoors in all kinds of weather? I dunno!
55 degrees? Tee shirt weather.
Some of us play when a bit cooler than that.
Those are from Memorial Day to around Labor Day... probably in low 50's; possibly into upper 40's; which is not unusual.
Even a few times play when much cooler.
The more issue is fingers/hands when gets cold. I do have gloves with open finger tips, that can help. Similar sometimes late at night the dew point can be problematic, esp for bow hair and rosin.
That said, campfire smoke probably isn't best for fiddles or bow hair.
Edited by - alaskafiddler on 02/07/2023 02:32:51
FWIW, playing outdoors is pretty common for OT, and BG... perhaps roots from playing on porches, to then the outdoor summer festivals.
Irish players seem to like to play in dimly lit pubs... in old days thick with smoke and other pub smells. 
I have an old German trade fiddle that I use for extreme outdoor fiddling...it actually is a sweet sounding fiddle... more often when playing outside, I concur with Doug, that if I am comfortable then the fiddle will be okay and I use one of my other good fiddles...
Now I don't know if anyone remembers, but not that long ago, the winter olympics were in Norway.. the temps were very cold..negative numbers for the ceremonies and they had a marching group playing traditional Norwegian tunes on fiddles... they sounded pretty good...afterwards I did a little research on them... they were all RENTED fiddles...so a word to the wise.... follow their suit...
Play Happy
Swing
Playing outside is the best! Everything outdoors is better.
Treat your instruments like a puppy. If a puppy could take the conditions, environment, travel, etc., so can your instruments...just a rule of thumb I go by...lol...except these days I never go anywhere...lol...neither do my instruments. But if and when I do, I'll go by that rule as I have in the past. Instrument = puppy.
quote:
Originally posted by groundhogpeggyTreat your instruments like a puppy. If a puppy could take the conditions, environment, travel, etc., so can your instruments...just a rule of thumb I go by...lol...except these days I never go anywhere...lol...neither do my instruments. But if and when I do, I'll go by that rule as I have in the past. Instrument = puppy.
I hear that! This winter I stopped for dinner and drinks before heading to my lesson on a Wednesday night. My fiddle stayed in the car like an idiot, (I always bring my instrument indoors wherever I go) but this time I didn't. I showed up to my lesson and I had my first peg slip. We spent half the lesson showing me how to get in back in tune.
Well .... if you are uncomfortable so is your fiddle is a good rule of thumb. Making sure that you keep it humidified is it's best protection. Direct sunlight on a dark colored case is always a bad idea if it is for more than a very few minutes. The trunk of an automobile is never a place to leave your fiddle. Buying a second fiddle and a double case gives you one to keep in cross tuning. So yeah .... keep em' safe and watered and reasonably cool. At 55'F there better be a bonfire or a 1/2 pint. R/
This is all very reassuring...
thank you guys!
Geo, your pics are pretty amazing. You Alaskans and your instruments are tough!
And I see, in that one picture he has his fiddle tucked inside of his parka, LOL!! Very clever. (Hmm actually now I'm scratching my head over that...it's like, his fingerboard is sticking out of the jacket...?)
One person NOT to ask, it's my luthier...he complained that when the weather was humid (this summer) my fingerboard was falling down or something and was barely within spec...he was talking to me about all the stuff that happens to fiddles/violins in humid conditions...if I talk to him too much, I'm pretty sure I'll only be playing at 72 degrees indoors!
Yea I was thinking about getting a "beater fiddle" but I honestly don't enjoy if I'd enjoy playing on it...so then, what's the point..
My daughter had a "beater flute" for Marching Band, since they would be marching around out there in fog and rain (which I can avoid, since attendance is more optional at my jams!). She disliked her beater flute but didn't want to ruin her $$$ one, and in marching band conditions nobody can really tell about your tone...
And Peggy, my "puppy" is half-husky/half-German Shepherd and he likes to nap on the deck in below-freezing weather...LOL!
So I need to think, fiddle = Beagle puppy, probably! But I think that is a great guideline. :-)
OK so I think I will err on the side of caution with the weather temps, avoid full sunlight, and avoid leaving it in the car, but I will go out to PLAY and try not to worry!
In the classical world, only played outside for weddings (just few times) and the main problem was the music blowing away. This frequent playing-outside stuff is quite a change but at least, no sheet music to worry about!
Edited by - NCnotes on 02/07/2023 06:10:38
DougD
"uncomfortable as a (supposed) human"
???
You are a Bot? Or, you are the BigFoot?? 
Edited by - NCnotes on 02/07/2023 06:29:26
The solution is to play a carbon fiber fiddle
Plat Happy
Swing
NCnotes - Well, I have been called the "human metronome," so sometimes I'm not sure. I have certain other powers which I don't like to reveal unless needed. For example, I may have "ears like a ground squirrel," as Marion Sumner used to say. Being uncomfortable playing outside is not one of them however. When I suggested 60° as my cutoff, I was thinking of a sedentary NC jam in shirtsleeves or a light sweater. If you're going to play in snowmobile suits around a fire, where the young women are wearing their high XtraTuf boots, that's a different story.
I've played in a few odd situations that I remember. One was at a "sugaring off" party in VT where there was a head high snowbank right behind us, and a roaring fire a few feet in front. I remember thinking "This probably isn't too good for my guitar" but it survived.
When Jenny Cleland and I lived in Spencer, NY there was a commune nearby who were good friends. One year they built a barn for Tony and Dolly, their team of draft horses. It was built in the old post and beam way, with the walls assembled on the ground and in late fall a bunch of us got together and "raised" the barn. Then I think we got it roofed and had a "barn" dance on the slab - except there were no walls. There was a half gallon of Jack Daniels to fuel that party, but it was still very cold.
I don't do that type of activity anymore though!
Edited by - DougD on 02/07/2023 07:20:46
I play one of those old german trade fiddles, probably close to 100 years old now. I often think about who has owned it and played it in the past and what it has gone through to end up in my hands now. I imagine it has seen some hard times, if not horrible times. There are battle scars. The thing is build like a tank and I'm not so worried about playing it outside in the cold or hot or humid or dry.
i have a supposedly modern Italian fiddle that sounds better outside than in, especially in the cold. I would be more worried about my bow. Things go awry with bows really quickly.
Edited by - pete_fiddle on 02/07/2023 13:26:51
I know I've posted this a couple times before on this site, but not too long after I moved from my native SoCal to a 100+ annual inch-of-rain corner of Hawaii, the neck of my best, most expensive fiddle detached itself from its body. I sent the now two-piece violin back to the shop in L.A. I bought it from to put things right again. The owner of the shop gently said in his German accent, "Zees tings happen," and glued the fiddle back together for a reasonable fee. My fingers remain crossed (which makes it a bit more difficult to play the instrument), but after a couple years the fiddle has yet to give me a moment's concern. It sounds better than ever, too. And, oh yes, the fiddle is a modern one, manufactured in Germany in the 21st Century.
Edited by - Lonesome Fiddler on 02/07/2023 13:51:16
And then there was the strad found floating in the sea and it was put back together again...good job it was all in it's case when someone found it...
quote:
Originally posted by Lonesome FiddlerI know I've posted this a couple times before on this site, but not too long after I moved from my native SoCal to a 100+ annual inch-of-rain corner of Hawaii, the neck of my best, most expensive fiddle detached itself from its body.
I once left an old Kamaka ukulele outside-ish, overnight, on the lanai at my sister's house in Honokaa, Big Island. Then next morning I found it completely apart. Everything that was glued together was now not glued together.
Thinking about indoor vs outdoor...or frequency, is a bit moot; it's more about the environmental conditions.
A lot of older fiddles were built when most folks didn't have central heating, or any climate control; Heat with wood or coal; no AC. Parts of the house, esp where they kept the fiddle stored probably wasn't that comfortable for humans by today's standards. Nor venues. IIRC, the standard English concert hall was 59 degrees. Playing next to the fireplace or stove... they put out a lot of radiant heat (like the sun); even though the air temp doesn't seem very warm; fiddle/bow can be absorbing that radiant heat, so caution about that.
Going from one environment to another... especially if big changes in temperature and humidity occur in short time. Different wood; and hide glue; can change at different rates; causing glue to fail, or worse, cracks. Transportation is often where problems can occur, sometimes big changes... in that the car is much colder in winter; or can be much hotter in summer. (in winter climates, many suggest don't get instrument out tight away, but let it sit in case for a while to slowly adjust). FWIW, cases like BAM really help.
Of course with jet planes, can quickly go between hot and dry, to damp and cool. Desert/Boreal rainforest.
I think the wood itself doesn't have a problem, most wood by itself can handle quite a range of change... but rather the glue. Hide glue probably doesn't do well under more extreme conditions, freezing or hot humid. But even in changes of environment, might be hide glue that fails, which might a good thing. If wood is wanting to expand/contract; it's the glue joint that might prevent it... thus crack the wood.
What Ed mentioned reminds me of this... what happens if a fiddle was built (glued up) in one more extreme environment of temperature/humidity; and then goes to environment almost opposite extreme?
Of course, as far as needing an old beater... if you have a very valuable instrument... a lot of folks might not want to bring that to an outdoor festival, jams, play around campfire, or busking (usually outdoors)... but nor to many indoor events... jam, pub sessions, for some even most gigs. For a lot of other reasons other than outdoor temperature.
Forgot to mention other downside about outdoor, (nothing to do with instrument)... in some places BUGS!
In other places, like cities, outdoor cafe,... too much other street noise.
Edited by - alaskafiddler on 02/07/2023 16:30:12
quote:
Originally posted by NCnotes
And I see, in that one picture he has his fiddle tucked inside of his parka, LOL!! Very clever. (Hmm actually now I'm scratching my head over that...it's like, his fingerboard is sticking out of the jacket...?)
That's mountain climber/guide Vern Tejas... and it's a portable fiddle he takes up mountains; have to conserve space and weight. It all comes apart and fit's in a tube, has no body, that's just a pad. Not very loud, but holed up in tent/camp doesn't need to be. BTW, it's not as cold in the tent as folks might imagine.
Interesting stories!
Well one thing for sure, if I ever get another fiddle I am not going UP in price range! Having a fine expensive instrument would just make me feel paranoid about playing it outside a lot. For now, I think I will just be a little careful...maybe play outside when between 60-82 degrees or so...check temp before I head out. And there are also "always-indoor" sessions I can visit, if I get desperate (talkin' 30 minute drive each way for 1.5 hour of playing!)
Pete I gonna go google about the Strad found in the ocean, that sounds fascinating…
And Geo the “camping” fiddle is ingenious!
Edited by - NCnotes on 02/07/2023 17:34:26
NCnotes - A violin thought to have belonged to the bandleader on the Titanic, and found in its case when his body was recovered, surfaced in this century and was sold at auction. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Hartley
This article identifies it as a Stradivarius, which I think is incorrect, but also mentions another Strad recovered after being briefly washed out to sea in the 1950's:
stradivarius.org/titanic-violi...s-violin/
quote:
Originally posted by dorymanquote:
Originally posted by Lonesome FiddlerI know I've posted this a couple times before on this site, but not too long after I moved from my native SoCal to a 100+ annual inch-of-rain corner of Hawaii, the neck of my best, most expensive fiddle detached itself from its body.
I once left an old Kamaka ukulele outside-ish, overnight, on the lanai at my sister's house in Honokaa, Big Island. Then next morning I found it completely apart. Everything that was glued together was now not glued together.
When me and the wife moved to the Big Island after my retirement, while our house was being built we lived in Ninole (not far from Honoka'a) in one of those 'camps' consisting of tiny cottages where farm workers would be housed. I'd cruise through those lovely "gulches" to Honoka'a to buy groceries. Honoka'a is a heck of a picturesque town! My wife, BTW is a fourth generation Hiloan. In any case, the climate on that side of the Big Island ain't exactly kind to musical instruments. My ancient upright piano is in a perpetually grumpy, out-of-tune mood.
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