Have you heard any of the recordings by the Plank Road String Band? I recorded this one about 1977 youtu.be/YXEVmItHIwU
I think "Beaumont Rag" is one of the better modern recreations of the Serenaders sound. That's a modern 4 string cello, probably tuned in fifths C-G-D-A.
In the photos the instrument he's playing looks more the size of a cello. It never occurred to me that it had only three strings, even though I'm familiar with the "church bass."

In this article from the Texas State Historical Association it says that Bogan started out on bass, but switched to cello because it was easier to handle, and simply removed a string "because he didn't need it."
tshaonline.org/handbook/entrie...erenaders
PS - I guess that's the same article you linked in the OP, apparently written by his son. I don't see any reference to a "church bass." In the photo I think I see four tuning machines - he just removed a string.

quote:

---

Originally posted by DougD

Have you heard any of the recordings by the Plank Road String Band? I recorded this one about 1977 youtu.be/YXEVmItHIwU
I think "Beaumont Rag" is one of the better modern recreations of the Serenaders sound. That's a modern 4 string cello, probably tuned in fifths C-G-D-A.
In the photos the instrument he's playing looks more the size of a cello. It never occurred to me that it had only three strings, even though I'm familiar with the "church bass."

---

Doug, I have not heard any of the recordings by the Plank Road String Band, that is pretty awesome! It's too late for me to listen to the whole thing now, but I listened to a couple tracks including Beaumont Rag. That is definitely a great version.

The East Texas Serenaders' version is I think all in C, whereas the Plank Road String Band seems to be all/mostly in F.

I'm able to play the East Texas Serenaders' version pretty well for a start from the dots. But I have difficulty memorizing tunes that are that complex. I think I have a better chance with shorter tunes like Arizona Stomp or Deacon Jones.

quote:

---

Originally posted by DougD

In this article from the Texas State Historical Association it says that Bogan started out on bass, but switched to cello because it was easier to handle, and simply removed a string "because he didn't need it."
tshaonline.org/handbook/entrie...erenaders
PS - I guess that's the same article you linked in the OP, apparently written by his son. I don't see any reference to a "church bass." In the photo I think I see four tuning machines - he just removed a string.

---

That article was more in-depth than others I read, which were apparently summaries. I missed the the statement that Bogan removed the string because he didn't need it.

So I guess it really is a cello and not a "Church bass"!

Yes, the East Texas Serenaders recording is in C. The Plank Road version is really based on the recording by Smith's Garage Fiddle Band (who may have composed the tune), except with the cello and tenor banjo like the Serenaders. Its in F, which is common. For quite a few years I did sound at Christmas Dance School at Berea, which ran from the day after Christmas to New Years - a festive time. One night during the week my friends Al and Alice White would host a party for staff and friends. One year, to get the music started, Al picked up his fiddle, and to support my host I picked up his banjo, which was tuned in G. I asked him what he wanted to play, and Al, who's from Texas, said "Beaumont Rag." Guitar players often play it in D, and I started to retune. I'd tuned the 4th string down, and the fifth string up to A when I thought to ask "In D?" and Al said "No, in F" and started playing. I looked at the banjo, which was tuned aCGBD, and just started in. Turned out to be a pretty good tuning for F, but you never know!
I looked at that Google groups discussion you linked (a lot of names there who used to post here in the old days) and it seemed that someone misunderstood Paul Gifford about Bogan's instrument, and Paul replied very clearly that it wasn't a "church bass," and that he hadn't said it was. Just a cello.
BTW, last I heard Michael James Kott, the cellist in Plank Road, was living in New Mexico. A wild and crazy guy and a brilliant musician.

The National Museum of American History has church basses in its huge collection of instruments. Last time I was there, they had one in a display case right in the front lobby.

Here's an article in "Strings" magazine about the "church bass" stringsmagazine.com/pilgrims-pride/

Thank you for the additional comments, Doug and Rich!

It's good to know the Smithsonian has some church bases. Next time I visit DC I'll have to check it out. Hopefully it's a hands-on exhibit where they let visitors play the instruments. 

Regarding the Beaumont Rag versions of the East TX Serenaders and the Plank Road SB, I studied them both more carefully. The Serenaders' version in C I think is within my grasp. I do have some intonation issues when the fourth part with the forward rag rolls is played in third position. The high C is a bit of a stretch if I try to play it with my middle finger, so it winds up flat. But if I try to play it with my pinkie I overreach and play sharp.

I tried to play along a little with the Plank Road version by ear. Most of it seems doable. But that the fourth part with the rag rolls goes all the way up to fifth position, and I've never tried to play there. In ways, my intonation is better because I'm able to play what I think is a high F with my middle finger. So if I can find fifth position, I can play the roll.

What I like about both versions is that the fourth parts use rag rolls and not shuffle bowing patterns as is popular for bluegrass and contest versions. That makes it sound like no-kidding ragtime!

Going back to the original topic, I think it was Sigmund Freud who said: Sometimes a cello is just a cello.

Oh wait, he didn't say that. He said: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Oh wait, he didn't say that either!

Here's another recording you should add to your playlist by Smith's Garage Fiddle Band: youtu.be/7Fa760-7XMA I've read that Samuel Peacock, the fiddler on that record, composed the tune; in any case this was the model for the Plank Road version. One characteristic is that the first chord of the A part is G major, reflecting the B natural in the melody. A lot of versions just go to the dominant 7th (C7) here. In some ways the plank road recording is nothing like the original but in some ways its exactly like it. I've made quite a lot of recordings over the years, and this is one of my favorites - just a joyous piece of music.
Some people have suggested I share a few stories here, but I really don't think they're particularly interesting to most people. Anyway, this Plank Road record was the only session other than the second and third Highwoods records that was recorded in our "studio" in the barn behind my house in Van Etten, NY, outside of Ithaca. It was early summer and everyone was happy to be there. It was recorded on an Ampex Model 300 mastering recorder with tube electronics. Many, if not most of the hit records of the 1950's and early 1960's were recorded on these machines, and it was the basis for Les Paul's early multitrack recorders. I had built a professional quality 6 input mixer from a kit, but it had no panning - everything had to be assigned left, right, or center. That's why the guitar and banjo are spread so wide, and both fiddles and the cello are in the center. I was set up in the tumbling down old milking parlor, listening on KLH model 6 speakers through a McIntosh tube amp. No eq, processing or editing.
Probably more than you wanted to know, but I enjoyed those sessions. Everyone was very focused on what we were doing.

Doug, thank you for the reference to the Smith's Garage Fiddle Band recording! I do have maybe a half dozen of their recordings, but not that one. The one I listen to regularly is their Tom and Jerry recording. I think I like the Plank Road SB version better. You can certainly hear they are recordings from different eras. I'm liking the Plank Road recording of Cherry River Rag a lot. And it's not too difficult or long, so I will have to learn that one for sure.

Thanks for sharing the story about recording the Plank Road record in your barn! When I look at pictures of the Ampex Model 300 recorder, it appears to be the size of a dishwasher. That must have been fun to move from one place to the other. I grew up on a farm with a barn, but it did not have an Ampex Model 300, so now I feel deprived.

I'm listening to the left and right channels to try to hear which instruments are in which channel. I have no sense of what's right or wrong for that.

I was going to talk about stereo recording, with an example from another rag, but I just came across this photo of a cello that looks like it was built for three strings: youtu.be/_hKvnGA4T9c And played by someone with a peg leg. A Civil War veteran, maybe? I wonder when and where that photo swas taken - maybe its in the liner notes. Compelling.

quote:

---

Originally posted by DougD

I was going to talk about stereo recording, with an example from another rag, but I just came across this photo of a cello that looks like it was built for three strings: youtu.be/_hKvnGA4T9c And played by someone with a peg leg. A Civil War veteran, maybe? I wonder when and where that photo swas taken - maybe its in the liner notes. Compelling.

---

Cool picture! Too bad there's no explanation of what's going on..

Doing some more internet research, it's becoming clear that three-string double basses used to be common. Here is an excerpt of a history article:

In the mid 18th century most double-basses were made with three strings, a practice that continued until shortly before the end of the 19th century. The three-stringed double-bass had a more powerful sound, a clearer, harder and more assertive timbre; on the other hand its range in the lower register was smaller. Its tuning was A1, D2, G2 or G1, D2, A2. Composers from the period of Viennese Classicism all had three-stringed double-basses with which to perform their orchestral works.

From the 1830s onward four-stringed double-basses were reintroduced; until the end of the century both types existed side by side, the four-stringed model eventually replacing the three-stringed as standard.

The four-stringed bass had a more mellow, smoother and weaker sound than the three-stringed version, but its range in the lower register was larger (to E1). To compensate for its weaker sound the number of instruments in the orchestra was increased. In addition, new low-pitched wind instruments such as the bass clarinet and the contrabassoon began to support it.

That excerpt is from here: https://www.vsl.info/en/academy/strings/double-bass#history

And here is a video of a solo on a three-string bass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgZ_-f7pVk4&t=52s

In addition to being more powerful, the three string instruments could have a narrower fingerboard, which made it easier to play more difficult  works.

I have a relative here in town (wife's cousin) who is a retired professional double-bass player. I should ask him about this.