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Nov 2, 2022 - 10:36:13 AM
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3217 posts since 9/13/2009

quote:
Originally posted by NCnotes


Here's a video of Kevin Burke playing a set of well-known reels...he seems to be tapping on offbeat sometimes...love how he plays these!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjyG3rW_yLA


Looks can be deceiving, it's just showing his knee. I think if you view other videos, see Kevin often rocks his foot, to every other beat; taps toe on fist down, then lifts the heel, and heel rolls down on the second down while toe lifts, ready to go down on the first down beat. You can often hear his his toe making sound.
Here's another video. https://youtu.be/H7_YWCTiIVY

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 11/02/2022 10:36:51

Nov 2, 2022 - 11:02:49 AM
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2070 posts since 4/6/2014

imo. The point is that a player can roll over the bar lines, play off beat, or on the beat, tap their foot or not, or just roll over the whole lot, or do whatever they want to, to put across their interpretation of a tune. There are rules but they are there to be broken or re-enforced at the players discretion.....But you need to be in control. And to do that you have to "Research" and "Practice" until you can change at will. This takes Decades of dedicated learning. And some, (myself included), will never be adept enough to accomplish this. But i can have fun trying.

This ain't Bach...But Bach would definitely help....So would Kevin Burke, and Stuart Duncan ....etc..If i set my sights high enough, i might avoid shooting myself in the foot.

Nov 2, 2022 - 12:39:56 PM

667 posts since 7/30/2021

Yup...after digesting this thread...

I think I've concluded that "offbeat foot tap" can just be a practice technique for me! To help me get some offbeat rhythm into Reels. Because players I admire, often have that rhythm in reels...so I thought everybody was easily tapping their feet on an offbeat or something! 
But that doesn't seem to be the case (based on this thread!) So I won't sweat over it. :-)

Agree that it's just fun to try, and it's fun when you can get a little closer to sounding like what you want to sound like...
don't know where I'm going, or even why I'm doing this! but having fun and meeting nice folks going there.

Edited by - NCnotes on 11/02/2022 12:41:27

Nov 2, 2022 - 1:33:38 PM
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6083 posts since 9/26/2008

I wasn't saying there isn't a backbeat. As Alaska pointed out, most popular music has that snare (or a clock or whatever) on the 2 and 4,but without the one, it's up in the air what beat is being emphasized.

I've been workimg on this nifty foot trick. Can do it fine WITHOUT playing laugh??????

For tapping at the beginning of the vid

Nov 2, 2022 - 2:17:39 PM

2070 posts since 4/6/2014

Great string to add to your bow.If you want to add foot percussion to your playing?

And i think it would definitely have an effect on the way that you would bow a Reel.

is This

what you are talking about?

Edited by - pete_fiddle on 11/02/2022 14:25:44

Nov 2, 2022 - 2:36:51 PM
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banjopaolo

Italy

250 posts since 9/14/2010

as David says all jazz players use to tap on the off beat (2 and 4) and when you play a bebop theme is not that easy! but I think it is useful to be able to tap in different ways
For example when you are playing a spare rhythm as 5/8 or 7/8 you can tap on the one of the 12 123 or the 12 12 123, so you have an irregular tapping....

Nov 2, 2022 - 3:56:27 PM

667 posts since 7/30/2021

Paolo and Pete, apparently I have a long way to go with the foot tapping skills.... laugh

Billy, fun video...that fiddler got rhythm! (what are those special pads under his feet, I wonder...is he controlling something?)

As for reels...
an interesting question is, when you play "Drowsy Maggie" where do you tend to tap your foot?
I checked, and I'm always tapping on the offbeat for that one - got no problem at all with that one! 

 

Random drift comment -
Video that came up after the one Pete posted, check out this "fiddle like object"!  (starts at 1:45)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R08E7jPn8Q

Nov 2, 2022 - 8:22:42 PM

6083 posts since 9/26/2008

Okay. Two things.
Pete, exactly like that. I can play a bit while fiddling, about twice through a tune before it starts to feel like my feet are off for a wee sec or two. Probably need to record to see if that's just my perception because I do like to mix a tune up some as far as accents go.

NC, I honestly think that his favorite shoes are just very worn out and it's just duct tape and some padding. I love that band concept, electric piano, electric guitar and fiddle at its core, mom and sons.

Nov 3, 2022 - 11:17:31 AM

3217 posts since 9/13/2009

quote:
Originally posted by ChickenMan

I wasn't saying there isn't a backbeat. As Alaska pointed out, most popular music has that snare (or a clock or whatever) on the 2 and 4,but without the one, it's up in the air what beat is being emphasized.

I've been workimg on this nifty foot trick. Can do it fine WITHOUT playing laugh??????

For tapping at the beginning of the vid


I think there is some conflation, talking about different things.

Lack of snare (or drums) doesn't meant the emphasis is up in the air; usually not the case... there is a perceived emphasis of which is stronger. The examples of foot percussion are downbeat oriented, emphasis accent is on 1/3. But the 1/3 vs 2/4 is not really about being a drum, making tapping audible. Nor is really about rolling over bar lines, nor if aligned on the metric grid. It's about ryhmic feel not timing. 

Reflecting the physical feel of rhythmic emphasis... switching your perception of emphasis to 2/4... gives a different feel. 

As for reels...
an interesting question is, when you play "Drowsy Maggie" where do you tend to tap your foot?

As with most Irish reels I tend toward strong downbeat oriented... 1/3 emphasis pushing forward. Not ignoring the 2/4, just it's not as dominate focus.

But brings up good example, sing/hum/diddle or just imagine tune in head... and clap along. For most will naturally feel like 1/3. Then switch to emphasis on a 2/4 clap... and the tune just feels different. With that, can affect how you play and articulate; even if stop clapping but still perceiving 2/4 emphasis. (some southern tunes like Shortnin Bread, or gospel tunes... this might be easier to feel than Irish reels).

As mentioned, some styles, like jazz players, the perception of emphasis on 2 and 4 helps give the feel.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 11/03/2022 11:19:41

Nov 4, 2022 - 4:57:41 PM
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3 posts since 1/28/2018

I have been trying to practice emphasizing beats 2,4 as well. I'm in the northeast and was brought up with an emphasis on 1, 3 beats and a lot of New England contradance and northern roots music and it's so drilled into me. But I really like playing old time and every time I tried pulsing 2,4 I kept migrating back to 1,3. So to focus better I bought a foot tambourine so I could hear my foot tap better and that it was a distinct sound. I said ok, can't get my feet to change so I'll set the metronome and I'm going tap my foot tambourine with it to 1,3 but make a conscious effort to get that bow emphasis in between the foot tap. Basically I said I'm going to do this every day even if it takes more than a year. I'm going to do 15 minutes a day of this until I can do this without thinking. I started in early summer and for the first 2-3 weeks I'd get all messed up and lose it after a couple of minutes. It took about 4 weeks to start to get coordination and hearing down between foot tap on 1,3 and bow pulse on 2,4 but I still couldn't maintain it for too long. It helped a lot at first to vocalize it along with metronome and foot. Da da DITTEN or Daaa DITTEN. Metronome/foot on first da and the bow pulse on DITTEN. So, on through the summer. First on just open strings, then randomly through scales. By early fall it started to get much better and now here in Nov I am able to do much of it without thinking. In fact when I was learning a few oldtime tunes recently the 2,4 bow pulse all of sudden started to appear in my playing. When I recognized what was happening it made me smile.

Nov 4, 2022 - 8:43:17 PM

667 posts since 7/30/2021

@mudmucker Your hard work and practice is inspiring!!
I'll keep working at my bow pulse...
and I found that if I LIFT my heel on beat 1, then I can put my heel DOWN on the offbeat "and" (aka beat 2, depending on how you're counting) and that helps me to get the feel of an offbeat pulse in my body. That's easier for me than just waiting for the offbeat to tap. It still feels awkward sometimes, but it's slowly getting less awkward...

Edited by - NCnotes on 11/04/2022 20:43:53

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