Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

36
Fiddle Lovers Online


Oct 24, 2022 - 9:36:33 PM
likes this
399 posts since 2/10/2020

Can anybody tell me if this guy is throwing in some Hokum bowing here? There's one example at 2:10 and then a few other places as well. Or is it just some fast cross string playing?

youtube.com/watch?v=1F6D0vjJji...t_radio=1

Oct 25, 2022 - 4:17:09 AM
likes this

14137 posts since 9/23/2009

I thought those players were all him...lol...the mando pre=haircut version and then the guitar and fiddle post-haircut...didn't notice the woman on bass until later...lol...so I guess that wasn't all him.

Anyway, I saw fancy bowing but it didn't look like actual hokum shuffles to me...just my opinion...the second one where he gets really jazzy had similar rhythm as hokum but it didn't involve the same bow strokes as hokum to get there. At least in my opinion. I'm sure others will jump in who can tell you better, since anything about bowing draws all fiddlers like a crow hollerin' in the woods...lol. Who can resist a bowing thread.

Oct 25, 2022 - 4:52:53 AM
like this

10742 posts since 3/19/2009

No.

Oct 25, 2022 - 6:09:41 AM
like this

2494 posts since 10/1/2008

It was like the first shuffle without the entire bowing statement> I rather liked how it was used to emphasize the next passage. The flat picker is Robert Bolin, a most excellent fiddler in his own right, and the bassist is Wil Maring. R/

Edited by - UsuallyPickin on 10/25/2022 06:11:43

Oct 25, 2022 - 6:29:18 AM
like this

RobBob

USA

2897 posts since 6/26/2007

This is hokum shuffle at about 45 seconds in,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XXKM4aYslA

Oct 25, 2022 - 8:45:27 AM
likes this

doryman

USA

399 posts since 2/10/2020

Ok, thanks, so what exactly is he doing there at 2:10. I love that effect and have heard it other places too. I always assumed that I was hearing hokum bowing, but now that I'm actually learning hokum bowing, I was thinking, "Wait, I don't think that's exactly what I'm learning."

Oct 25, 2022 - 10:00:41 AM
likes this

2873 posts since 10/22/2007
Online Now

Hear the difference in the same song/tune:
Here's Ragtime Annie, (wait for the 3rd round)
youtu.be/YoiS8pj9o6Y

Oct 25, 2022 - 10:15:14 AM
likes this

2623 posts since 7/12/2013

doryman I don't think that's hokum, he's just alternating notes. Hokum bowing is usually 1-2 on one string and then one on the higher string like the Back up and Push example. I think this guy is just doing 1 on string, then 1 on a second string.

Oct 25, 2022 - 10:16:56 AM
likes this

doryman

USA

399 posts since 2/10/2020

quote:
Originally posted by farmerjones

Hear the difference in the same song/tune:
Here's Ragtime Annie, (wait for the 3rd round)
youtu.be/YoiS8pj9o6Y


Thanks, so the that's hokum at around the 2:01?  And the stuff before was just fast string crossing?  I'm sorry for being so dense, it's new to me a some of that fast stuff is just a blur. Also, if I could play like that, I'd quit my day job!

Oct 25, 2022 - 10:58:11 AM
likes this

Old Scratch

Canada

1091 posts since 6/22/2016

What you were talking about in the clip you posted was indeed "fast/fancy string crossing" - a kind of descending run going back and forth between two strings that is written into or can be added to many, many, many tunes; e.g., in Speed the Plough, it's essential to the second turn.

Oct 25, 2022 - 11:36:11 AM
likes this

6090 posts since 9/26/2008
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by doryman
quote:
Originally posted by farmerjones

Hear the difference in the same song/tune:
Here's Ragtime Annie, (wait for the 3rd round)
youtu.be/YoiS8pj9o6Y


Thanks, so the that's hokum at around the 2:01?  And the stuff before was just fast string crossing?  I'm sorry for being so dense, it's new to me a some of that fast stuff is just a blur. Also, if I could play like that, I'd quit my day job!


You are correct. That little bit there is the double shuffle hokum. IF you want to learn it, there are numerous lessons on YT.

There's a reason it's referred to as hokum.. 

Edited by - ChickenMan on 10/25/2022 11:37:14

Oct 25, 2022 - 11:37:23 AM

doryman

USA

399 posts since 2/10/2020

quote:
Originally posted by Old Scratch

What you were talking about in the clip you posted was indeed "fast/fancy string crossing" - a kind of descending run going back and forth between two strings that is written into or can be added to many, many, many tunes; e.g., in Speed the Plough, it's essential to the second turn.



Thanks, I really have to learn to do that, it's one of my favorite "fiddle tricks."

Oct 25, 2022 - 11:39:55 AM

doryman

USA

399 posts since 2/10/2020

quote:
Originally posted by ChickenMan
quote:
Originally posted by doryman
quote:
Originally posted by farmerjones

Hear the difference in the same song/tune:
Here's Ragtime Annie, (wait for the 3rd round)
youtu.be/YoiS8pj9o6Y


Thanks, so the that's hokum at around the 2:01?  And the stuff before was just fast string crossing?  I'm sorry for being so dense, it's new to me a some of that fast stuff is just a blur. Also, if I could play like that, I'd quit my day job!


You are correct. That little bit there is the double shuffle hokum. IF you want to learn it, there are numerous lessons on YT.

There's a reason it's referred to as hokum.. 


Yes, I understand the reference.   I do wonder who gets to decide which fiddle tricks are legit and which are  gimmicks.  I have some ideas about that, so I'd like to be the decider if at all possible.  

Oct 25, 2022 - 1:41:54 PM

2873 posts since 10/22/2007
Online Now

Thanks ChickenMan! I've been on the road. (Or in the field)
Many a tune you can hear versions where a player is "wearing it out." He going through his memory bank of licks. There's the Buddy part, and the Seckler part, and the Floparino part, and don't forget the Benny part. Michael Cleveland can wear a tune out. You'll hear all that but more. Very organic. Vince Gil has a video where he's wearing out Oklahoma Boarderline, on guitar. Art Tatum was a piano player. Tell him to play Blue Skies, and he'd play it for an hour. You'd never hear an invention repeated. The concept comes from Jazz improvisation, but any type of music or musician can adopt it. 

Edited by - farmerjones on 10/25/2022 13:45:59

Oct 25, 2022 - 5:33:20 PM
likes this

2398 posts since 8/23/2008

The example at 2:10 is 'single stroke fast string crossing'. He does throw in a '2-1 double shuffle' here and there', which is evident by the syncopation of the higher string part, but he never actually completes a full pattern.

Oct 25, 2022 - 5:52:33 PM

Old Scratch

Canada

1091 posts since 6/22/2016

Patti Kosturuk does that here, mixing up the hokum bowing with that fast descending string-crossing thing, at 1:29 (she might do it earlier somewhere, too):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dperkjNwChU

Edited by - Old Scratch on 10/25/2022 17:56:25

Oct 25, 2022 - 6:14:45 PM

2398 posts since 8/23/2008

Patti is playing it all over the place, and it is how the tune goes. But in the original vid that guy is throwing it into his improv.....

Oct 25, 2022 - 6:45:44 PM

Old Scratch

Canada

1091 posts since 6/22/2016

Well, if we're talking about the same thing, yes and no: the hokum bowing is basic to the tune, but that fast descending string-crossing, of 4 or 8 notes, depending how you're counting it (Bb, A, G, F, on the E string, to Bb on the A string), is not - you won't hear it in Earl Mitton's recording of it:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBpE8MrqQL4 ... so how much Patti is improvising and how much she is playing the tune as she learned it, I don't know.

Oct 25, 2022 - 7:32:02 PM

2398 posts since 8/23/2008

I was only concerned with the 'hokum/double shuffle'. In the OP vid that guy is improvising and using the double shuffle in snippets.
I am pretty sure Patti is not improvising but playing variations in Earl Mitten's Breakdown.

Oct 25, 2022 - 7:52:32 PM
likes this

Old Scratch

Canada

1091 posts since 6/22/2016

Gotcha.

Oct 26, 2022 - 7:16:23 PM

1528 posts since 5/13/2008

quote:
Originally posted by RobBob

This is hokum shuffle at about 45 seconds in,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XXKM4aYslA


Hmm, that guy is pretty good.  Heh Heh.

Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.1875