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May 27, 2022 - 2:57:02 PM
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10186 posts since 3/19/2009

If you like a tune you hear at a jam session and can quickly play along ....fine.. If you like a tune you hear at a jam session and CAN"T get a handle on it, then play quietly and later  learn it at home,  then play along at the jam the next time.. So, the pet Peeve is, "Don't use a jam session as a practice session".. Am I asking too much?

Edited by - TuneWeaver on 05/27/2022 14:57:48

May 27, 2022 - 3:36:20 PM
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2651 posts since 10/22/2007

So how wrong can I play the tune loud and up to speed to be suitable to you?
(Devil's advocate)

May 27, 2022 - 3:40:24 PM
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2197 posts since 8/27/2008

That's not asking too much at all. Funny, but it's one of those things some people seem unaware of. I've had jams where guitar players show up and played loud like they're leading, and some of them couldn't keep good time and most of them played blues riffs instead of trying to learn a fiddle tune. If you've got players at least trying to play your tune it's a start. Sometimes people need to be gently told. Generally if gentle reminders don't work, I've found people weed themselves out pretty quickly. Never had to call the cops.

May 27, 2022 - 3:55:29 PM
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5706 posts since 7/1/2007

Cell phones take remarkably good video, and you can slow down playback to practice along with the videos you've taken. That's what I'm doing currently. Works pretty well.

May 27, 2022 - 4:00:03 PM

10186 posts since 3/19/2009

Not too much of a problem if it happens from time to time, but when it happens WEEKLY, it can get old..

May 27, 2022 - 4:45:19 PM

2651 posts since 10/22/2007

Noodling in between tunes, makes my day. (NOT)
The reason I only play 4 or 5 of the same tunes? I don't get the luxury of quiet to think up a fresh tune.

May 28, 2022 - 12:31:04 AM

3021 posts since 9/13/2009

quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaver

Not too much of a problem if it happens from time to time, but when it happens WEEKLY, it can get old..


Was that 10,000?

May 28, 2022 - 3:09:54 AM
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10186 posts since 3/19/2009

quote:
Originally posted by alaskafiddler
quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaver

Not too much of a problem if it happens from time to time, but when it happens WEEKLY, it can get old..


Was that 10,000?


10,001... sneaked up on me!!

May 28, 2022 - 5:52:45 AM
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94 posts since 9/4/2007

One of my pet peeves (major whines??) also. Folks seem to think that they can learn a tune by only playing along at the session. I suppose some can, but a lot of folks seem to just play along learning(??) the tune for months or more. I guess they eventually get something, but IMO a lot of what makes the tunes unique and cool is lost in the process of learning that way. Sort of a generally watering down of the tune. We usually mention sources at our jams, but only a few seem to follow up on those. I really hate it when someone says, "Let's play that so I can practice it." Practice is what you do at home.

May 28, 2022 - 7:32:04 AM

10186 posts since 3/19/2009

quote:
Originally posted by pmiller510

One of my pet peeves (major whines??) also. Folks seem to think that they can learn a tune by only playing along at the session. I suppose some can, but a lot of folks seem to just play along learning(??) the tune for months or more. I guess they eventually get something, but IMO a lot of what makes the tunes unique and cool is lost in the process of learning that way. Sort of a generally watering down of the tune. We usually mention sources at our jams, but only a few seem to follow up on those. I really hate it when someone says, "Let's play that so I can practice it." Practice is what you do at home.


Your post represents EXACTLY what I hear often... 

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May 28, 2022 - 7:46:33 AM
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DougD

USA

10596 posts since 12/2/2007

Congratulations on your 10,00th post, Lee. You are now one of I think only three members who can be addressed by the coveted title of "Great Windbag!"

May 28, 2022 - 7:49:52 AM
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10186 posts since 3/19/2009

Great Windbag... That is surely the title I've been waiting for..!

May 28, 2022 - 7:51:28 AM

2197 posts since 8/27/2008

Who is 3rd?

May 28, 2022 - 8:00:26 AM
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10186 posts since 3/19/2009

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Wood

Who is 3rd?


I think it is Peggy, Doug and now me.. 

May 28, 2022 - 9:47:26 AM
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RichJ

USA

691 posts since 8/6/2013

I guess all of this relates to how "tight-assed" the jam you attend happens to be. Some certainly can become pretty dang formal, I remember one around here run by a guy who wouldn't allow banjos. I stopped attending that one pretty quick. There was another one I attended for awhile where new tunes were introduced by people who brought sheet music and passed it out before they played the tune. Of course that chicken scratch meant nothing to me so I just kinda' muddled through. Most likely we all kinda' seek our own level when it comes to attending jams. A crappy player like me tends to gravitate toward the ones without too many rules.

Reaching up to achieve mediocrity

May 28, 2022 - 10:22:52 AM

408 posts since 7/30/2021

Irish session rule is no noodling. Just sit it out, and learn the tune on your own.

The drawback is, there are times where I have played about twice...:-(

My version of "noodling" a bit when listening, it to pizzicato and finger strings a bit with fiddle in my lap...you can kind of learn a tune that way without actually bowing / making intrusive audible noises...

May 28, 2022 - 1:35 PM

doryman

USA

321 posts since 2/10/2020

Well it certainly depends upon the jam and the songs. One jam that attend regularly is among friends and the purpose IS to practice songs (and have fun). Skipping a lead is highly frowned upon, you're expected to give it your best shot, regardless of how well you think you know or don't know the song.  Sometimes we will even play the same song two or three times in a row.  

Another jam I attend is at a local tavern and is regularly attended by some of the best players in town. It is a welcoming atmosphere, but definitely NOT the place to try and learn a song. No one minds if you sit one out, but improvising is perfectly fine, if not the rule!

Mind you, neither one of these jams are OT or some other genre where one is expected to play specific songs in very specific ways. One could get along quite well with a working knowledge of pentatonic scales, blues scales and arpeggios.

Edited by - doryman on 05/28/2022 13:37:35

May 28, 2022 - 1:35:56 PM

doryman

USA

321 posts since 2/10/2020

quote:
Originally posted by farmerjones

Noodling in between tunes, makes my day. (NOT)
 

 


Drives me crazy too, unless it's me doing it. 

May 28, 2022 - 1:56:13 PM
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10186 posts since 3/19/2009

After I started this topic it occurred to me that I may be coming across as a complainer in that I've started many topics about what goes wrong between musicians.. Then I reminded myself that I'd also started several topics in which the SAME people I complain about do amazing things.. "Remember Self, we all have faults and it is good to keep that in mind when complaining.." The only perfect musician I play with is named Harry.. Harry Hare. He never starts a tune I don't know , only plays what I play the Way I play it, and he doesn't complain about having to sit in back of the Forester until we go busking..He doesn't ask for a share of the tips and he doesn't drink beer.. . You should all be so blessed..

Edited by - TuneWeaver on 05/28/2022 14:00:57

May 28, 2022 - 2:11:35 PM

10186 posts since 3/19/2009

quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaver
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Wood

Who is 3rd?


I think it is Peggy, Doug and now me.. 


To me the post count is a mute point.. It is not a competition.. I checked around and was surprised that the post count of several of my favorite Hangout Members, whose comments I gravitate to  the most, are relatively low.. I guess that  a lot of Members say a lot with few posts..!!  Anyway, I just like to yak about anything fiddle related..I don't know why everyone doesn't think of the same topics I come up with, really.......Give me an afternoon, a beer or two, and a moment to think and I'll post Something!!! I suppose that that is my modus operandi..

Edited by - TuneWeaver on 05/28/2022 14:12:35

May 28, 2022 - 7:41:34 PM
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3021 posts since 9/13/2009

quote:
Originally posted by doryman

Well it certainly depends upon the jam and the songs.


I agree, jams come in different forms, there is no one idea of "jam", or one written set of rules that apply to all. Different goals, purpose and expectations... and ideas what/how to meet those. IMO, pretty much determined by who's jam? might be someone initiated/runs the jam, their goals... or just a bit improvised depending on who shows up, or what quorum of like minds goals expectations might be. If you just show up to an existing jam...  it's someone else's and their goals they decided, might not be your expectations of what should happen.

------------

As far jam forms, and OP "Don't use a jam session as a practice session" or worse, learning tunes on the fly, at tempo (it is not IMO same as just noodling). Some  at jam/session (even Irish) can handle that just fine.

Back in day, was how many of us learned/practiced lots of tunes that way, (probably most of my Irish tunes), as wasn't much notation or recordings, as well source was what those locals were playing. The way to really practice the tunes in context, was show up and try play along. Each week try to get it better, more of nuance.

Often these have a "core" of players... who are mostly playing with and off each other. There was no big circle equality/parity idea... driving and cranking out the tunes (and mostly selecting tunes); and held the focus, let them do what they do. It is possible to play under that, to point doesn't really affect what they are playing, maybe don't even notice what you are playing. Learn to listen, and back off enough not to affect them, yet enough you can hear yourself. (there are some other tricks that involve start with outlining melody, that fits within what they are playing).

Related, is some use idea of onion, or inner/outer circle type thing... which kind of has that core and volume difference built in a bit. (still need to listen to core, let them be in front).

--------

The big circle, (sometimes 10-15ft apart); list of rules/Jamandments, each person is equal, go around circle; is another idea... that suits or works for some folks and their goals. Just different, better is subjective to individuals.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 05/28/2022 19:51:04

May 29, 2022 - 4:46:31 AM
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94 posts since 9/4/2007

Don't mean to be a crank when I said the jam shouldn't be used as a practice session. I certainly come from the following stated by Alaska Fiddler.

"Back in day, was how many of us learned/practiced lots of tunes that way, (probably most of my Irish tunes), as wasn't much notation or recordings, as well source was what those locals were playing. The way to really practice the tunes in context, was show up and try play along. Each week try to get it better, more of nuance."

A couple of things from that quote are critical and positive in my opinion. One is that a jam session is practicing the tunes in context and the second is showing up every week. I also like the idea of the "onion" concept. But I would add that these ideas should be balanced with the idea that a person is practicing at home looking towards the source of the tune, which could be an old recording or possibly a recording from the session itself.

May 29, 2022 - 4:03:40 PM
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2651 posts since 10/22/2007

In 30 years of jamming I've found some get it, and some don't. Many don't devote the time to get it. It takes a lot. I can't fault anyone. Most lives are way too busy. Some jams it seems like folks gather and suffer & enjoy each other in equal parts. The music making is secondary. That's fine too.

May 29, 2022 - 5:43:24 PM
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13335 posts since 9/23/2009

I could use a pickin pal like harry hare…maybe he could even get me to do more fiddlin and less yakkin…lol…from one windbag to another.

May 29, 2022 - 7:20:38 PM
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3021 posts since 9/13/2009

quote:
Originally posted by pmiller510


But I would add that these ideas should be balanced with the idea that a person is practicing at home looking towards the source of the tune, which could be an old recording or possibly a recording from the session itself.


Should have clarified, jam/session wasn't only practice, just part.

At jam/session, get  basics of it, take it home, start work on it... know haven't got it all... next time listen closer notice what haven't got, or got wrong. Repeat, further refining it more and more.

Taking the tune home, trying to remember it... Many of us just don't have phonographic memory; nor perfect pitch. Find it helps with memory to actively try follow tunes with instrument (and bow) in hand.

The "source" back then was just the local playing; portable recording devices were pretty uncommon to see; most folks didn't have one.  As for commercial recording sources, didn't have easy access to every one, nor really many at all.

May 30, 2022 - 3:52:27 PM
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24 posts since 9/22/2021

For most sessions/jams, I completely agree. Like others have said though, I think in the context of a session that's welcoming beginners, andl also has more experienced players learning newer tunes, unobtrusive working on the tune is fine. I'm playing in one now that fits this description and it works out fine. Others maybe not so much. There's a good discussion on this going on over at mandolin cafe currently on this very topic! My feeling on the type of noodling that's just random attempts to make noise in the right key is that it doesn't belong in either. If someone is quietly trying to get parts of the tune, and it's the right type of session or jam, then I think it's ok. 

Edited by - mtnfidil on 05/30/2022 15:55:25

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