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May 16, 2022 - 11:21:46 AM
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1868 posts since 4/6/2014

i suppose the space in between the notes would be the remaining .033333 recurring milliseconds ?wink

Oh no another winky face....

May 16, 2022 - 12:06:54 PM
Players Union Member

carlb

USA

2433 posts since 2/2/2008

Those of us who play, influenced by ragtime music, place great importance on where the spaces are.

May 16, 2022 - 12:17:04 PM

10148 posts since 3/19/2009

Lately I've been paying attention to quarter notes.. they are long enough to be worked over by the bow pressure and my feelings.. I see some difference but it is hard to keep focused.

May 16, 2022 - 1:07:37 PM

3014 posts since 9/13/2009

quote:
Originally posted by pete_fiddle

i don't know about zen, painting or space in between notes etc . But i did work out that if you wanted the "Beginning Middle and End" of a 1/8th note to be of equal duration, and where playing a120 bpm reel, you would have 83.3 milliseconds to decide what to do with each of them.laugh


Perhaps don't know about math either? Should be 125 milliseconds apart.

May 16, 2022 - 1:08:01 PM

1868 posts since 4/6/2014

quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaver

Lately I've been paying attention to quarter notes.. they are long enough to be worked over by the bow pressure and my feelings.. I see some difference but it is hard to keep focused.


Its a lot easier to pay attention to a 2 bar phrase. And the result sounds more "lyrical" IMO. I think i tend toward that approach. Then if i feel rushed at the beginning of the next phrase i go back to the first phrase and work out why i am feeling rushed, and tweak it until i can comfortably hit the first note of the next phrase. Unless i want it to sound like i am falling down hill. Or playing over the bar lines etc....Well it's a work in progress anyways

May 16, 2022 - 1:20:54 PM

1868 posts since 4/6/2014

quote:
Originally posted by alaskafiddler
quote:
Originally posted by pete_fiddle

i don't know about zen, painting or space in between notes etc . But i did work out that if you wanted the "Beginning Middle and End" of a 1/8th note to be of equal duration, and where playing a120 bpm reel, you would have 83.3 milliseconds to decide what to do with each of them.laugh


Perhaps don't know about math either? Should be 125 milliseconds apart.

1/8th note at 120 bpm= 250 ms per 1/8th note divide that by 3   ( 1:Beginning 2:Middle 3:End) = 83.333 recurring ms


May 16, 2022 - 1:40:51 PM

3014 posts since 9/13/2009

Okay, I don't understand why you are trying to do it that way... but by all means if  that works for you, to get you what you want out of music.

May 16, 2022 - 1:54:23 PM
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1868 posts since 4/6/2014

quote:
Originally posted by alaskafiddler

Okay, I don't understand why you are trying to do it that way... but by all means if  that works for you, to get you what you want out of music.


i don't do it that way, or want to do it that way either, (as decribed in my previous post).... It's impossible.

But tweaking a 2 bar phrase is possible. I think that trying to bang my foot exactly in time, and giving each note it's full value, and defending my sense of timing etc. Is or hopefully "was", one of my biggest drawbacks in my fiddling journey.

May 16, 2022 - 2:42:49 PM
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3014 posts since 9/13/2009

quote:
Originally posted by pete_fiddle
quote:
Originally posted by alaskafiddler

Okay, I don't understand why you are trying to do it that way... but by all means if  that works for you, to get you what you want out of music.


i don't do it that way, or want to do it that way either, (as decribed in my previous post).... It's impossible.

But tweaking a 2 bar phrase is possible. I think that trying to bang my foot exactly in time, and giving each note it's full value, and defending my sense of timing etc. Is or hopefully "was", one of my biggest drawbacks in my fiddling journey.


Nobody was suggesting to do it that way either.

This isn't about timing or really fine quantized analysis of timing... or other aspects... rather the opposite... to go beyond that. Raised awareness that there are aspects to put a bit of care into, more qualitative, in that affect the quality, the feel.

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May 16, 2022 - 6:33:29 PM
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13313 posts since 9/23/2009

I stopped thinking that way when I discovered 2 + 2 does not actually compute, I mean, not really, not neatly...when I was six years old I made that discovery and then I just quit the whole doggone shabang.

May 16, 2022 - 6:43:02 PM
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gapbob

USA

813 posts since 4/20/2008

83.3 msec is why fiddling can be quite difficult

May 31, 2022 - 9:59:28 AM
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Earworm

USA

334 posts since 1/30/2018

Pardon me for jumping into this thread much too late, but it reminds me of something. In college, in the context of haiku and other short poetry performance, a theater prof said this, more or less: In Western thought a note is over the moment it is plucked. In Eastern thought, the note is not over until the string has stopped vibrating.

I just think it's a good reminder to listen for the sustain, the echo, or even the silence that follows, with equal weight to the original note. I don't think it means not to play things fast too, but that vibration is always, always present.

Edited by - Earworm on 05/31/2022 10:00:26

May 31, 2022 - 12:36:29 PM
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1868 posts since 4/6/2014

quote:
Originally posted by Earworm

Pardon me for jumping into this thread much too late, but it reminds me of something. In college, in the context of haiku and other short poetry performance, a theater prof said this, more or less: In Western thought a note is over the moment it is plucked. In Eastern thought, the note is not over until the string has stopped vibrating.

I just think it's a good reminder to listen for the sustain, the echo, or even the silence that follows, with equal weight to the original note. I don't think it means not to play things fast too, but that vibration is always, always present.


"Wax on, wax off".... LOL.

Every note does have a beginning middle and an end. It's just that it is imperceptible to a human ear  in a 120 bpm reel . Except fora Ninja maybe??

May 31, 2022 - 12:56:29 PM
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2043 posts since 12/11/2008

I think I'm gonna over-think this. A little more...

May 31, 2022 - 1:03:34 PM
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10148 posts since 3/19/2009

In the end I suspect that the OP comment might not have been intended to be taken TOO literally.. As for me it has been the inspiration to focus on LONG notes when I can, and on Phrases which are the backbone of fiddle tunes if you ask me.. Paying attention to individual note volume, cadence, and intonation have also been on my mind lately.

May 31, 2022 - 1:14:11 PM
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1868 posts since 4/6/2014

We are all musical Ninja's... Just got to convince everyone elselaugh

May 31, 2022 - 6:40:44 PM
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5848 posts since 9/26/2008

There are things one can do that make the music stand out in an (almost) subconscious way. Example: this weekend while playing with my banjo buddy Paul, there were these moments where I shortened the fiddle notes to match the length of his banjo notes with their short decay. It was very obvious to me that we were opening up the space between notes and the music took on a different quality. I'm sure it was noticeable, but not sure most would have been able to say exactly what made it different. Beginning, middle and end...

Jun 1, 2022 - 5:34:36 PM
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2357 posts since 8/23/2008

 

We are all musical Ninja's... Just got to convince everyone elselaugh


This is the most important ingredient for interesting discussion.... 

Jun 6, 2022 - 5:43:05 AM
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94 posts since 9/4/2007

In regards to the following from crunchie512 back on page 1:

"Music is the space between the notes.??For some reason I've always associate that quote with BB King, but it turns out it was Claude Debussy,

I have often reflected on this quote and tried to figure out what it means. I’m wondering it it isn’t to get us all to think about what we are playing. In other words, play a note and then think about it. (Realizing of course that with .833 milliseconds, or whatever, there’s not a lot of time for reflection). Or to broaden this out, think about the notes were playing, or possibly the whole tune/song. I mean the point in reflection is to make good music, obviously something we are all thinking about as we participate in this thread.

I’ve always liked the quote (who knows where from, but theoretically a couple of old guys) who said; “Let’s play this tune and then think about it for awhile.” Very much like paying attention to the space between the notes.

Jun 6, 2022 - 7:33:20 AM
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Earworm

USA

334 posts since 1/30/2018

Yes, continuing ... if you consider this in the context of spoken language, the speech (or the music) is in the vowels, and the percussion / rhythm is in the consonants. I am very down with meta talk like this. wink

Jun 6, 2022 - 11:50:49 AM

2188 posts since 8/27/2008

I am inclined to find meaning in the "music is the space between the notes" quote in terms of melodic relationships more than timing. Space can mean the distance or relationship between pitches.

Jun 7, 2022 - 4:45:13 PM

3014 posts since 9/13/2009

quote:
Originally posted by Earworm

Yes, continuing ... if you consider this in the context of spoken language, the speech (or the music) is in the vowels, and the percussion / rhythm is in the consonants. I am very down with meta talk like this. wink


Hard consonants can start the sound followed by open vowel. Or soft open vowel can start and hard consonant end. Or can have consonant at each end, or just be 2 vowel/diphthong. Key vs Eek vs Peak. Consonants can be soft as well.

Another aspect that affect rhythm and phrasing.. way to think about that though... each syllable, and the connection or space between each syllable. Gives distinction of mono vs multi syllable words. As well enunciation. (one example is Ladymondgreen vs laid him on the green). Besides space between for words, there is also the idea of commas and periods... all of these things give rise to the rhythm of speech.

Jun 7, 2022 - 5:06:36 PM

3014 posts since 9/13/2009

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Wood

I am inclined to find meaning in the "music is the space between the notes" quote in terms of melodic relationships more than timing. Space can mean the distance or relationship between pitches.


I think most folks reference in space between is not melodic, but not necessarily simply timing either. Timing simply refers to the time between note starts/onsets; for example every 250 milliseconds (eighth notes in 2/4 @ 120bpm). There can also be a difference in the sound in that 250 ms; full sustain sound for 250 until next note onset (as in legato/slur); vs relationship of relatively loud part then quieter... which serve to give varying degree of separation between notes. (this plays role affects the sense of rhythm and phrasing).  

Jun 7, 2022 - 6:44:54 PM

2043 posts since 12/11/2008

alaskafiddler -- Hey, I got a Masters in Linguistics back in the 1970's. And yes, I've always appreciated the similarities/analogies that exist between spoken speech and music. For one, I found that Bartok's music tended to mimic the Hungarian language....of course, in a very emotional and insightful way.

Jun 7, 2022 - 9:17:41 PM

2357 posts since 8/23/2008

I believe the term "music is the space between the notes" to be a very broad term; it can apply to the many aspects of the music which create separation or division. The rhythm is spaced by varying note values, the melody has varying intervallic spaces, cadences and phrases create space, even pieces in perpetual motion have space created by the melodic contours and dynamics. It's an affirmation to serve a personal need suited to ones requirements in pursuit of artistic expression.

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