Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

155
Fiddle Lovers Online


Dec 1, 2021 - 12:22:48 PM
1492 posts since 7/26/2015

Where do the extra parts popular in contest style versions of "Grey Eagle" belong in relation to the old tune, in your opinion? A local guy who is a seasoned and respected accompanist at local contests told me, to his knowledge, there are five accepted parts. What do you think? Herman Johnson's version has seven according to Jeanine Orme's book of his tunes. In the book, it's written with the structure of the parts going in order from "A" to "G" with one more A before the tag. The "A" at the start is written as one 16-bar section, but based on the rest of the parts each being each bars that are repeated, plus the unrepeated 8-bar section at the end that is labeled "A", I've chosen to label it like this:

AABBCCDDEEFFGGA

Do you think some of the extras ("C", "D", "E", "F", and "G") could be categorized as variations on "A" or "B"? Here's a ling to a recording of Herman playing it: youtube.com/watch?v=3-QIPoZ3SIQ

Edited by - soppinthegravy on 12/01/2021 12:23:09

Dec 1, 2021 - 2:22:20 PM

5648 posts since 9/26/2008

Just variations of the original A and B. As typical of contest versions, it quickly loses much of the tune to my ears and begins to sound like exercises. Great fiddling though, just not a style (or tune, really) that doesn't grab my interest. In fact, it seems a very typically "contest style" version right down to the tempo and constant triplet feel. 

Edited by - ChickenMan on 12/01/2021 14:27:15

Dec 2, 2021 - 6:11:46 AM

1492 posts since 7/26/2015

To my knowledge, Herman was one of the patriarchs of Contest Style, or at least one of the important figures in its spread out of the Southwest. He is one of only five people to have won the  championship at Weiser  five times, and he was the first Contest-Style player to win it (1968). In your opinion, if those other parts are variations of the A and B, which ones belong to the A strain and which ones belong to the B strain? Here is my guess.
AABBAABB ?? ?? BBA
"C "  definitely " is a variation of "A".  "D" and "G" are probably variations of "B". I'm not sure about "E" and "F". Those are the main ones that perplex me, especially "F".
quote:
Originally posted by ChickenMan

Just variations of the original A and B. As typical of contest versions, it quickly loses much of the tune to my ears and begins to sound like exercises. Great fiddling though, just not a style (or tune, really) that doesn't grab my interest. In fact, it seems a very typically "contest style" version right down to the tempo and constant triplet feel. 


Edited by - soppinthegravy on 12/02/2021 06:14:12

Dec 2, 2021 - 6:34:58 AM
like this

Mobob

USA

182 posts since 10/1/2009

Borrows heavily from the recording by Howdy Forrester, the F part, Howdy's fourth part seems to come from Ostenelli's, which you can find in Cole's 1000, or so it seems to me. BTW, Herman Johnson was the only fiddler to be undefeated at Weiser, entered five times, won first five times.

Dec 4, 2021 - 9:18:14 AM
likes this

RobBob

USA

2766 posts since 6/26/2007

Isn't that the way the tune goes?

Dec 4, 2021 - 1:26:28 PM
likes this

5648 posts since 9/26/2008

quote:
Originally posted by soppinthegravy
To my knowledge, Herman was one of the patriarchs of Contest Style, or at least one of the important figures in its spread out of the Southwest. He is one of only five people to have won the  championship at Weiser  five times, and he was the first Contest-Style player to win it (1968). In your opinion, if those other parts are variations of the A and B, which ones belong to the A strain and which ones belong to the B strain? Here is my guess.
AABBAABB ?? ?? BBA
"C "  definitely " is a variation of "A".  "D" and "G" are probably variations of "B". I'm not sure about "E" and "F". Those are the main ones that perplex me, especially "F".
quote:
Originally posted by ChickenMan

Just variations of the original A and B. As typical of contest versions, it quickly loses much of the tune to my ears and begins to sound like exercises. Great fiddling though, just not a style (or tune, really) that doesn't grab my interest. In fact, it seems a very typically "contest style" version right down to the tempo and constant triplet feel. 


 


They are just the typical contest-type variations that lose the tune to flex some skills or flash. Why so concerned? It doesn't strike me as your style. 

Edited by - ChickenMan on 12/04/2021 13:27:45

Dec 5, 2021 - 2:28:04 PM
likes this

1492 posts since 7/26/2015

I don't know. I just got curious recently. I don't particularly like the style, but it's hard to avoid at local fiddle contests. I guess I want to try to place in some of them, just to prove that an Old-Time fiddler can do it, but I don't want to be a Contest-Style player. One of the main things that frustrates me is that contest-style dominates even though these competitions are at Bluegrass festivals and sometimes labeled Old-Time. It seems to me that, in light of this, Bluegrass and Old-Time should be what win, but usually, neither does. Much to my surprise, Contest-Style players thing Contest Style is Old-Time or that it is more closely related to Old-Time than Bluegrass is. For roughly six years, one of our local festivals was held to Old-Time standards, but a Contest-Style guy got involved with the judging one year, and after that, the Old-Time judges were gone. I don't know if what wins now is technically Contest Style, but it doesn't sound like the Old-Time and Bluegrass that I was used to. 
quote:
Originally posted by ChickenMan
quote:
Originally posted by soppinthegravy
To my knowledge, Herman was one of the patriarchs of Contest Style, or at least one of the important figures in its spread out of the Southwest. He is one of only five people to have won the  championship at Weiser  five times, and he was the first Contest-Style player to win it (1968). In your opinion, if those other parts are variations of the A and B, which ones belong to the A strain and which ones belong to the B strain? Here is my guess.
AABBAABB ?? ?? BBA
"C "  definitely " is a variation of "A".  "D" and "G" are probably variations of "B". I'm not sure about "E" and "F". Those are the main ones that perplex me, especially "F".
quote:
Originally posted by ChickenMan

Just variations of the original A and B. As typical of contest versions, it quickly loses much of the tune to my ears and begins to sound like exercises. Great fiddling though, just not a style (or tune, really) that doesn't grab my interest. In fact, it seems a very typically "contest style" version right down to the tempo and constant triplet feel. 


 


They are just the typical contest-type variations that lose the tune to flex some skills or flash. Why so concerned? It doesn't strike me as your style. 


Edited by - soppinthegravy on 12/05/2021 14:57:59

Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.109375