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Dec 4, 2021 - 6:42:20 PM

doryman

USA

309 posts since 2/10/2020

GHpeggy, you have a video out there someplace where you hold forth about shuffle bowing that I found very helpful for getting that groovy shuffle bow sound and not just the run-pony sound.

Dec 4, 2021 - 7:17:54 PM

13180 posts since 9/23/2009

Thanks, John. I'm always so happy if somehow I can share something that someone else might find helpful.

Hey, Lee and Chickenman...you guys got me curious, so I went to youtube and poked in the search box, "Celtic Bowing," and this was the first hit. I'm thinking maybe what you're referring to is how this fella describes string crossing...around 11:59. Even though that's Celtic/Irish, which I don't go near because I'm just more into playing just simple old time...Irish is too complicated for me to attempt to get into...but I think I do something similar and probably a lot of people might do to deal with getting a string crossing when it just doesn't seem feasible to put a lot of motion into getting there. Maybe I'm all wrong here...but is that what you were referring to?

youtu.be/1AMesSTGSd8

Kind of interesting that after the years if bowing discussion that went on for pages and pages until you felt like your eyeballs were popping out and your brain would explode...lol...back a few years ago here on FHO...I'm not sure I remember this idea being brought up...maybe I was so overwhelmed I didn't notice or maybe we just didn't go there at that point. Anyway, wondering if this is what you are talkin' 'bout???

Dec 4, 2021 - 9:55:42 PM
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2967 posts since 9/13/2009

quote:
Originally posted by ChickenMan

Adult learners always seem to want "it" to happen in an unrealistically short time frame. Hours and hours of practice is needed; there are no short cuts.

As the saying goes, patience is a virtue.


Overall agree. But as far as no shortcuts though: simply repeatedly doing the same thing over and over that it will eventually come... isn't always the best path, nor always works. There is an aspect of cognition... when understanding the concept that is often involved.

Sometimes another aspect... trying too hard, or overthinking about the instructions; trying to force things to happen. Can close awareness of experience, esp if fears about  doing it "right", that the only metric is dichotomy of right vs mistake/fail.

Not sure how to describe it, but relaxing, being a bit open, to experimenting, feeling the experience, or letting things happen... sometimes that's where the light bulb moment comes; the "wait what as that?" moment. To cognition aspect, the moment of "oh now I get it".

Dec 5, 2021 - 12:09:37 AM
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Quincy

Belgium

344 posts since 1/16/2021

quote:
Originally posted by buckhenry
quote:
Originally posted by Quincy

I wanna rock the bow too lol. Dammit I want this so hard, more than anything.


As Billy says, take your time with this, your own time, every one takes different time.  Even the title of this thread seems to infer your impatience.

Don't worry about..."How long does it take before you see the light?". Have a practice routine and continually add new skills to it. 

Always remember to practice in a state of 'minimal tension', make a special effort during your sessions to focus on just that, continually check and re-check through simple left and right hand exercises.  Relish this journey and before you know it you'll be rocking.... 


Thanks for your advice! A structured practice routine is exactly what I need, instead of my fast exploring and testing out stuff you actually need to work towards. Yes,  I'm a bit impatient / very driven at the moment, it has to do with my enthusiasm/ almost euphoria every time I discover something new (in this case: shuffling). Also focus on minimal tension is exactly what I need now I guess.

I have a bit of a mood disorder, going regularly towards extreme happiness / ecstasy or euphoria (this is no joke , it's just a fact), a bit the manic type ( I lack the depressive pole), but it doesn't show off in extreme forms anymore because I take monthly medication for it , for more than 10 years now, which keeps me sane / rational. I don't mind to tell here, it's just part of me and this is why I totally fall for fiddle music, it's the type of music that fits me:  the uplifting rhythm and beats that make you want to dance,  the harmony of sounds,  it brings me what I like most : my euphoria :-)

 The day I see the light will for me be the day I can fully express myself while playing! 

Edited by - Quincy on 12/05/2021 00:24:27

Dec 5, 2021 - 4:28:55 AM
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13180 posts since 9/23/2009

Bottom line...enjoy the journey, Anja! You can do it...and you'll get it. One thing to remember, if you want the music, you focus on it, you will eventually get it. And from what I've heard I think you ARE getting it now, maybe more than you realize. It doesn't take a superhuman to shuffle and get a groove in bowing...anybody who works on it will eventually get it. Like anything else, seems like we're attempting some giant feat at first, but in fact it's a down-to-earth human endeavor that people who want it figure out when they just spend some time with it and get to know it on their own. The key is keeping up the motivation long enough to get the groove you want...and it seems that's no issue. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and you will eventually see the amazing roads you've traveled. Don't get sidetracked by minute details...just keep shuffling. Keep shuffling, keep enjoying shuffling.

Dec 5, 2021 - 8:42:43 AM
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doryman

USA

309 posts since 2/10/2020

Anja, if you have not yet discovered the song, "Spotted Pony," I think it is a very good one for practicing and using shuffle bowing, which features prominently, simply and obviously in one of the two parts of the song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16i2gi1AKiU

Edited by - doryman on 12/05/2021 08:45:57

Dec 5, 2021 - 9:29:38 AM
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5806 posts since 9/26/2008

quote:
Originally posted by doryman

Anja, if you have not yet discovered the song, "Spotted Pony," I think it is a very good one for practicing and using shuffle bowing, which features prominently, simply and obviously in one of the two parts of the song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16i2gi1AKiU


I was working towards posting this tune (not this video per se). Pretty much all "bowing patterns" have a tune that coincides in some way with the pattern and this one, at least the commonly played version, has the L-S-S built right into it. 

Edited by - ChickenMan on 12/05/2021 09:31:32

Dec 7, 2021 - 9:46:06 PM

Quincy

Belgium

344 posts since 1/16/2021

quote:
Originally posted by doryman

Anja, if you have not yet discovered the song, "Spotted Pony," I think it is a very good one for practicing and using shuffle bowing, which features prominently, simply and obviously in one of the two parts of the song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16i2gi1AKiU


This is great, thank you! 

You all have been so helpful, I can't express how much I appreciate this forum and all of the help I get in my search for fiddle technique and knowledge.

Meanwhile it looks like I should look for another teacher, last mail I sent was 23rd of November and then one on the  2nd of December, I just didn't get any response anymore.  Not sure what I did wrong. 

But I love this hangout here <3

Dec 8, 2021 - 5:03:19 AM

13180 posts since 9/23/2009

Maybe the teacher is having some kinds of problems and can't get back...doesn't necessarily mean you did something wrong.

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Dec 8, 2021 - 9:16:40 AM
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391 posts since 7/30/2021

This Spotted Pony video is great and very clear, and I can see how it would really help with the shuffling!
Added it to my fiddling YouTube playlist. smiley

I think, music is just not really something you can learn by talking about it...
seeing and hearing one person playing the music is worth a thousand words (maybe more)! 
At least, for me. 

Edited by - NCnotes on 12/08/2021 09:25:15

Dec 8, 2021 - 10:19:27 AM
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doryman

USA

309 posts since 2/10/2020

quote:
Originally posted by NCnotes

This Spotted Pony video is great and very clear, and I can see how it would really help with the shuffling!
Added it to my fiddling YouTube playlist. smiley

I think, music is just not really something you can learn by talking about it...
seeing and hearing one person playing the music is worth a thousand words (maybe more)! 
At least, for me. 


As a new fiddle player, I've been using Spotted Pony as my benchmark piece to track my progress.  The shuffle and the way it works up the D scale is perfect for tracking how my intonation, scales, timing and shuffle are progressing (or not).   My daughter, who is also learning the fiddle via the school orchestra, is always asking why I keep playing the song and I tell her it's because I don't have it perfect yet.  So I guess I'll be playing it forever!  

Dec 9, 2021 - 8:03:26 AM

391 posts since 7/30/2021

quote:
Originally posted by doryman
quote:
Originally posted by NCnotes

This Spotted Pony video is great and very clear, and I can see how it would really help with the shuffling!
Added it to my fiddling YouTube playlist. smiley

I think, music is just not really something you can learn by talking about it...
seeing and hearing one person playing the music is worth a thousand words (maybe more)! 
At least, for me. 


As a new fiddle player, I've been using Spotted Pony as my benchmark piece to track my progress.  The shuffle and the way it works up the D scale is perfect for tracking how my intonation, scales, timing and shuffle are progressing (or not).   My daughter, who is also learning the fiddle via the school orchestra, is always asking why I keep playing the song and I tell her it's because I don't have it perfect yet.  So I guess I'll be playing it forever!  


Played along with her this morning! Yep good practice with the shuffle rhythm, and she even starts out with some "hushpuppies". One thing I love about this tune is that you can play it an octave down too! That makes for a mindboggling amount of possible variation in the future... :-) 

Dec 9, 2021 - 1:35:43 PM

5806 posts since 9/26/2008

How are you playing out down an octave? The low part starts at the open D which is the lowest D on the fiddle?

Dec 9, 2021 - 4:10:12 PM

391 posts since 7/30/2021

Well, in the video, her first note of Spotted Pony is a slide up to f-sharp on the E string.
The tune can also be played an octave lower, starting with slide up to the low f-sharp (on D string). She plays it that way in her repeat (from :45 in the video).

( I don't know what other note people usually start this tune on, since I just learnt it from this video! This is the only version I know... :-)

Edited by - NCnotes on 12/09/2021 16:12:00

Dec 9, 2021 - 6:21:52 PM

5806 posts since 9/26/2008

That would be the high part. What about the other part, where it goes up the scale from the open D string?

Dec 9, 2021 - 9:07:01 PM
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doryman

USA

309 posts since 2/10/2020

quote:
Originally posted by ChickenMan

That would be the high part. What about the other part, where it goes up the scale from the open D string?


Here's a video of Andy Reiner doing a wonderfully fun rendition.  He goes down an octave starting at about 40 seconds in, but I highly recommend listening to the entire song!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0igMpl5xIw

Dec 9, 2021 - 9:30:46 PM
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DougD

USA

10549 posts since 12/2/2007
Online Now

John, I think he's playing a five string fiddle, with a low string.
BTW, a song with a similar ascending phrase, but in G, is "Eight More Miles to Louisville."

Edited by - DougD on 12/09/2021 21:36:13

Dec 9, 2021 - 9:47:02 PM
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doryman

USA

309 posts since 2/10/2020

quote:
Originally posted by DougD

John, I think he's playing a five string fiddle, with a low string.
BTW, a song with a similar ascending phrase, but in G, is "Eight More Miles to Louisville."


Good grief, your are correct!  I've watched that video a hundred times and never even noticed!  So, to answer Billy's question then...get a 5 string fiddle!

Edited by - doryman on 12/09/2021 21:47:57

Dec 11, 2021 - 12:20:24 AM

Quincy

Belgium

344 posts since 1/16/2021

I found this Spotted Pony lesson:
youtu.be/rD3wi0C2I0c
I like her. With her 'run pony run pony run pony  question run pony run pony run pony answer ' and 'big leap up question big leap up answer'.This works for me.

Edited by - Quincy on 12/11/2021 00:31:22

Dec 11, 2021 - 4:39:23 AM
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13180 posts since 9/23/2009

Cool. Whatever works! Looks like a good lesson.

Dec 17, 2021 - 1:20:25 AM
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Quincy

Belgium

344 posts since 1/16/2021

Ok, how am I doing?

This girl in the video I posted was really helpful.

I believe it's starting to come, certainly in the first part it sounds like a shuffle each time.

I'm surrounded by my three passed away dogs in this video, in the white frame my very first rottweiler Rika vom Kümmelsee, then Quincy in the middle and Buck at the left.

O yes, and I'm playing with my A-string that is losing the wrapping here hehe.


Edited by - Quincy on 12/17/2021 01:22:29

Dec 17, 2021 - 4:16:21 AM
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13180 posts since 9/23/2009

Very nice job, Anja. I think your shuffles, intonation, everything is sounding really good! Seems to me you've got it.

Dec 17, 2021 - 5:41:28 AM
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9988 posts since 3/19/2009

quote:
Originally posted by Quincy

Ok, how am I doing?

This girl in the video I posted was really helpful.

I believe it's starting to come, certainly in the first part it sounds like a shuffle each time.

I'm surrounded by my three passed away dogs in this video, in the white frame my very first rottweiler Rika vom Kümmelsee, then Quincy in the middle and Buck at the left.

O yes, and I'm playing with my A-string that is losing the wrapping here hehe.


That is impressive..!

Dec 17, 2021 - 6:09:44 AM

Quincy

Belgium

344 posts since 1/16/2021

Thank you ! I'm glad I got the Spotted Pony tip, love to play this tune.

Dec 17, 2021 - 6:10:53 AM
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5806 posts since 9/26/2008

Not bad, not bad. You have a nice 'swing' to it. Next thing to work on is smoothing it out.

I think I've watched a few videos of you and Rika doing some tricks. I even thought "is that Anja?"

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