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Oct 10, 2021 - 3:23:18 AM
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12 posts since 9/7/2020

I really love this tune, and it's very challenging to play

youtube.com/watch?v=s-sSyQX_C-A

Oct 10, 2021 - 4:11:03 AM
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RichJ

USA

571 posts since 8/6/2013

Pretty sure JP played this in standard, but I like the sound of yours in GDGD. Also agree with your assessment of this tune... deceptively simple sounding, but really hard to make it even come close to JPs rendition.

Oct 10, 2021 - 4:48:39 AM
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12543 posts since 9/23/2009

Good job...JP is a tough code to bust...lol...I don't know why I like to put it that way. Anyhow, yes his stuff is very challenging. i think it worked out good in GDGD...good job. I think those little swells at the ends of the phrases probably got morhped over into fiddle tunes from old hymns and ballads...just my guess...still, they are kinda cool in a fiddle tune.

Oct 10, 2021 - 4:57:59 AM
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12 posts since 9/7/2020

quote:
Originally posted by RichJ

Pretty sure JP played this in standard, but I like the sound of yours in GDGD. Also agree with your assessment of this tune... deceptively simple sounding, but really hard to make it even come close to JPs rendition.


Thanks for your compliment! I actually learned it in standard tuning first, but I messed with it in cross tuning and came to like it. It makes the upward run in the B part a little bit easier to bow rhythmically, as I cross strings and play the same note twice ??

Oct 10, 2021 - 11:30:45 AM
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12543 posts since 9/23/2009

I always search for the easiest way to get those kinda things. Chet Atkins said he did, I figure if finding the easy way was good 'nuff for him, it's good 'nuff for me too...lol. Why struggle to play? Plus, we gotta remember JP's generation probably learned from cross tuned older fiddlers and just didn't feel like tuning all the time so they worked them out in standard as opposed to their original cross tuned versions...at least that's what I strongly suspect happened. Of course I wasn't there, so I can't say I know.

Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 10/10/2021 11:31:38

Oct 11, 2021 - 2:22:20 AM
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RichJ

USA

571 posts since 8/6/2013

quote:
Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

I always search for the easiest way to get those kinda things. Chet Atkins said he did, I figure if finding the easy way was good 'nuff for him, it's good 'nuff for me too...lol. Why struggle to play? Plus, we gotta remember JP's generation probably learned from cross tuned older fiddlers and just didn't feel like tuning all the time so they worked them out in standard as opposed to their original cross tuned versions...at least that's what I strongly suspect happened. Of course I wasn't there, so I can't say I know.


Make sense to me. Once they got popular and had to play a bunch o tunes for larger audiences and professional back up bands they learned to play their tunes in standard to avoid retuning for the many tunes in their repertoire. 

Oct 11, 2021 - 4:23:41 AM

12543 posts since 9/23/2009

...I'm tellin' ya, sheer laziness is what it was...sheer laziness that made them into such great fiddlers...lol.

Oct 11, 2021 - 4:54:45 AM

DougD

USA

10346 posts since 12/2/2007

"Plus, we gotta remember JP's generation probably learned from cross tuned older fiddlers and just didn't feel like tuning all the time so they worked them out in standard as opposed to their original cross tuned versions..."
What makes you think that? I don't think there's any evidence that cross tuning was ever widely used in that part of Kentucky. And JP in particular learned a lot of his music from his father, but he also had the opportunity to hear Ed Haley play at the courthouse on Saturdays when his father came to town on business. Taking the M-K collection as a representative sample, there are something like 33 tunes from Ed Haley. Only six are crosstuned, including two for which special tunings are common, like "Lost Indian."
And RichJ, none of these people ever really got "popular" and played with "professional back up bands." Both Ed Haley and JP were often accompanied by their wives on guitar, as in the attached photo. Although well known today, JP was never really a professional musician - he spent his working life with a mining equipment company.


Edited by - DougD on 10/11/2021 04:59:18

Oct 11, 2021 - 3:49:51 PM
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RichJ

USA

571 posts since 8/6/2013

quote:
Originally posted by DougD

And RichJ, none of these people ever really got "popular" and played with "professional back up bands." Both Ed Haley and JP were often accompanied by their wives on guitar, as in the attached photo. Although well known today, JP was never really a professional musician - he spent his working life with a mining equipment company.


OK Doug - You have exposed me as a complete music history fraud... along with everything else that's half -a$$ed about my fiddle playing. I Sorta' knew JP was a quiet kinda' guy who never played the lecture/concert series a lot. Still, I  think it's fun to kick around ideas on fiddle tunings and why so many of the old stalwarts played a fair bit of stuff in cross during the earlier years.   

Oct 11, 2021 - 6:28:55 PM
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12543 posts since 9/23/2009

Well...Doug, you've exposed me as the historical and hysterical dummy I am too...lol...but I've known of several OLD fiddlers in KY and WV ... the old guys, either of the WWI generation or their parents...who did tune their fiddles to something other than standard...I can't say what, because at the time I didn't know one tuning from another...just old folks who weren't famous or anything and had their fiddles tuned some way besides the usual...

Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 10/11/2021 18:31:53

Oct 11, 2021 - 6:42:49 PM
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12543 posts since 9/23/2009

Come to think of it, in my 12 or 13 years or so of actual messin' with a fiddle for myself...I've gone through so many phases...like...there was one point where I thought GDGD WAS standard tuning...lol...didn't help that somehow my classically trained opera singin' kid also thought that...we fed each other's misinformation on that...then, I came to realize GDAE was standard...well I got hooked on GDAE for a while...didn't wanna leave that...I was sort of just settled into that tuning...then, got back into GDGD and saw a lot more freedom with my bowing and even fingering there...got on the fence about bowing attitude (for lack of better word since my brain is out to lunch these days), tunings...had favorites and some I wouldn't touch, etc., etc., etc. Which leads me to think others who messed with the fiddle in the past must've gone through similar things...once they passed along whatever tunes, however they played them...AND...most of them probably quiet back porchers who weren't known by many others...but once they passed along a tune or a way of playing a tune...it could've been a long-held way of doing the tune, or it could've been their own personal temporary-comfort zone in playing that tune, the tuning, the bowing, just the notes and everything...or, IF they had festivals, people recording them, contests, etc., a lot of attention to their fiddling, they might have been showing off...from what I've heard...a whole lot of tunes we have today emerged from the "show off" versions people worked up for recordings and contests and such...maybe I'm wrong about that too...who knows...but I think it's a huge possibility, and I know from discussion with others that I'm not the first to think that way.

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