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Sep 22, 2021 - 9:42:53 AM

2004 posts since 8/27/2008

quote:
Originally posted by buckhenry
quote:
Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful
 

It's true that if you have limited bow technique you probably won't be as aware of the difference between a good rehair and a bad one, but that doesn't mean the difference is unimportant. 


This maybe the case in many instances especially with beginner violinists, but this does not apply to me. Even though I am a self taught fiddler I have been diligent in my approach to acquire a proficient technique of bow control. I had not rehaired my bows in decades because I believed the existing hair was adequate, but since I've read much on internet forums about the benefits of bow rehair I was very keen to experience any differences between the old hair and the rehaired bows. Recently I was in the market for a Coda Bow, I began with trialing the recommended 'Luma' for the fiddle music. This bow came no were near to matching the precision of my wood bows, but I was determined to own a carbon fiber bow so I began trialing all the Coda Bow models from the shop. Eventually I decided on the Marquise because of it's obvious superior quality. ...


I am curious about more expensive bows. I would never spend lots of money for a wooden bow because of its fragility, but I am curious about Coda bows. Can you describe to someone who's never played on an expensive bow what makes a bow worth $1,300 compared to my $75 bow? Christmas is coming and even though I really cannot afford a bow like the one you bought I might be tempted to have such a refined tool. I suppose eventually I should trial a few bows and see for myself. What truly makes a bow worth 15 times the price of the serviceable carbon fiber bow I use now? I am serious.

Sep 22, 2021 - 3:46:16 PM

WyoBob

USA

301 posts since 5/16/2019

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Wood
 

I am curious about more expensive bows. I would never spend lots of money for a wooden bow because of its fragility, but I am curious about Coda bows. Can you describe to someone who's never played on an expensive bow what makes a bow worth $1,300 compared to my $75 bow? Christmas is coming and even though I really cannot afford a bow like the one you bought I might be tempted to have such a refined tool. I suppose eventually I should trial a few bows and see for myself. What truly makes a bow worth 15 times the price of the serviceable carbon fiber bow I use now? I am serious.


I've asked myself the same question, Brian.   I've been playing the fiddle for 2 years, banjo for 9.  I'm 74 now and, when it came to the question of buying a better bow, I said, "why the heck not?!"   If I'm not nice to me, who else will be?

I had a, no name,  wood bow that came with my GEWA fiddle outfit that I bought from the "Bluegrass  Shack" and had bought two, KMIse carbon Fiber bows from Amazon for $35.00.  I got along fine with all three but decided I should buy something better that I could "grow in to".    So, I did a couple of trials with Shar. I wrote about it on the Hangout.   I bought a Presto Encore (I think was) at first but really liked the Coda NX better and later, traded the Presto in on a NX.   It's a well made, attractive bow but appearance isn't high on my list of priorities as I figure that I will always play my fiddle alone in the basement along of the recordings I've made over the last few year of our old time jam group.

To "cut to the chase" (so folks don't have to read the whole dang post), I asked myself, is the NX worth 9 times more than the $35.00 Kmise.   My answer was, no, but, it's my hobby now and what the heck?    The one thing that I couldn't get used to was the giant thumb pad on the NX.   It looks like a garter snake swallowed a giant egg and just wasn't comfortable for me.  The rest of the story ----.

I had a wood bow that came with the Kennedy fiddle that I bought first.  It weighed 72 grams and I didn't care for it.  So, nothing to lose.   I removed the pad and the wire windings so as to lighten the bow.   In their place, I slipped on a length of heat shrink tubing.  That helped a bit with the feel/play ability but, I soon discarded it and played the GEWA bow and Kmise.   I liked the Kmise so bought another one just to see if the results were the same.   They were.  I took the pads off all three bows (but left the windings) and much prefer the feel of all three bows as their set up now.   I considered removing the pad on the NX but I just couldn't do it!  If I ever sold it, I figured, everyone loves big fat pads and that I would destroy the saleability of the bow, so I sold it to a friend of mine.

I like the sound each of my cheap bows  on my two "good" fiddles ($400.00 Chinese fiddles)  .   And the feel of the stick with the heat shrink is great for me.   I don't choke up, preferring a standard hold and the TUF hold.  I have "grip tape" on the bottom of the frogs on the three low cost bows and like to switch between holds.   The grip tape makes the TUF hold rock solid   I seem to bow a bit straighter with the TUF and the tone of all three bows seems a bit better.   There is a difference in sound produced with the 3 bows on the two fiddles and I like the sound in any combination.  One fiddle has Helicore's installed and the other, Prims.  Both mediums.  

I have a JonPaul Fusion coming shortly and, from the pictures, it looks like the pad is a bit smaller.   If it's not, I don't have a problem with removing the pad and putting heat shrink on a $194.00 bow.  I just couldn't do it on the NX.  If I send the JonPaul back, I have no problem thinking about playing my three, low cost bows for the rest of my playing career.   And, I don't have any inclination to spend more money on a higher priced fiddle.   I think my time would be better spent just playing what I have and working on intonation, rhythm and bowing.  No one else will probably hear me play and cosmetics and "coolness" never has been one of my goals.   The only person I have to please is mesmiley

Sep 22, 2021 - 4:30:31 PM

2302 posts since 8/23/2008

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Wood
I should trial a few bows and see for myself. 

This is the only way you will find the bow to suit your needs. I initially trialed the Luma Coda Bow because it was recommended on this forum as a good bow for fiddle music. It didn't compare anywhere near to my wood bows so I decided to trail the other models in succession of quality. I took weeks to identify the degree of comparison between my wood bow and each successive Coda Bow; thus I would play perhaps a few long notes then change the bows back and forth immediately to take notice of any subtle differences. Each successive model did reveal a noticeable improvement in tone production and ease of handling which made me curious to trial the 'Marquise'.  This is the bow that surpassed my wooden bow with beautiful tone and the less effort required to execute certain bow strokes. However, since my repertoire includes light classical and some gypsy pieces, this influenced my decision in choice of bow, because that is where I noticed the sublties. If I only played fiddle music I would've probably settled for the Luma. 

Sep 22, 2021 - 4:47:47 PM

2004 posts since 8/27/2008

Thanks WyoBob,

I like your no BS approach to it. As I said I have yet to even try much better bows. I do basically question how many variables there can be for one company (Coda, say) to have so many different prices. If you take away the hair, frog, wrapping etc. you're left with a precisely shaped stick. Are there really a dozen different machines making different versions of precisely shaped carbon fiber sticks? Maybe. I'm trying to not be over skeptical. I don't understand it. I like the idea of owning a very special bow and perhaps I'll try some one day. But I also wonder if there's some snake oil here sales here. It's hard to get objective data, and, I suspect, it isn't easy to objectively judge different bows. Slight weight differences (for instance) could give the perception that one bow is better or worse for you, but is the core stick significantly different, several hundred dollars different?  I like the idea of owning a very good bow but I don't want to fool myself trying to parse the difference of hundreds of dollars between them (not to mention between them and my humble Fiddlerman bow). I'm always skeptical but I'm not trying to make a point, I really want to know about it.
 

Sep 22, 2021 - 4:55:12 PM

2004 posts since 8/27/2008

quote:
Originally posted by buckhenry
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Wood
I should trial a few bows and see for myself. 

This is the only way you will find the bow to suit your needs. I initially trialed the Luma Coda Bow because it was recommended on this forum as a good bow for fiddle music. It didn't compare anywhere near to my wood bows so I decided to trail the other models in succession of quality. I took weeks to identify the degree of comparison between my wood bow and each successive Coda Bow; thus I would play perhaps a few long notes then change the bows back and forth immediately to take notice of any subtle differences. Each successive model did reveal a noticeable improvement in tone production and ease of handling which made me curious to trial the 'Marquise'.  This is the bow that surpassed my wooden bow with beautiful tone and the less effort required to execute certain bow strokes. However, since my repertoire includes light classical and some gypsy pieces, this influenced my decision in choice of bow, because that is where I noticed the sublties. If I only played fiddle music I would've probably settled for the Luma. 


Thanks.  I take fiddle playing seriously enough that I'll probably try out some of those bows sometime. Though it's hard for me to understand that subtle degree of difference you're talking about, maybe trying them would show me.

Sep 22, 2021 - 5:06:20 PM

WyoBob

USA

301 posts since 5/16/2019

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Wood

Thanks WyoBob,

I like your no BS approach to it. As I said I have yet to even try much better bows. I do basically question how many variables there can be for one company (Coda, say) to have so many different prices. If you take away the hair, frog, wrapping etc. you're left with a precisely shaped stick. Are there really a dozen different machines making different versions of precisely shaped carbon fiber sticks? Maybe. I'm trying to not be over skeptical. I don't understand it. I like the idea of owning a very special bow and perhaps I'll try some one day. But I also wonder if there's some snake oil here sales here. It's hard to get objective data, and, I suspect, it isn't easy to objectively judge different bows. Slight weight differences (for instance) could give the perception that one bow is better or worse for you, but is the core stick significantly different, several hundred dollars different?  I like the idea of owning a very good bow but I don't want to fool myself trying to parse the difference of hundreds of dollars between them (not to mention between them and my humble Fiddlerman bow). I'm always skeptical but I'm not trying to make a point, I really want to know about it.
 


I bought a Fiddlerman C.F. bow.  It sounded great and I enjoyed it.  It sounded great.  But, it probably broke 30-40 hairs.   The no name wood GEWA bow and my two Kmise bows have broken maybe one hair each and I've owned them longer than the Fiddlerman bow.

My friend who is a long time guitar and fiddle player played my Coda NX and one of my KMise bows and preferred the KMise.  I think the NX had more hair than my other bows.  They all weighed the same.  Balance was a bit different but not that big of a deal.  But, his thoughts on the Kmise vs the NX sure got my attention.

As I'm an "experimenter", I added one gram of weight on the tip of each of my Kmise bows and that made them even more fun to play.

Sep 22, 2021 - 5:11:02 PM

2302 posts since 8/23/2008

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Wood
quote:
Though it's hard for me to understand that subtle degree of difference you're talking about, 

It was hard for me to understand also, that's why I literally took 'weeks' for the trialing, I had to learn how to feel the differences which are very subtle.

And since I could afford to, I  purchased the Marquise. I don't know if it's worth that much, but that's what they are asking. 

Edited by - buckhenry on 09/22/2021 17:20:34

Sep 22, 2021 - 6:24:20 PM

1904 posts since 12/11/2008

I bought my two good fiddles from a pair of high-end L.A. area string shops and I matched them with bows I bought at the two places, as well. The two shops, Thomas Metzler in Glendale and Benning Violins in Studio City, each brought out a case of bows for me to pair with the violins. Each shop put me in a room and told me to go at it.

I wound up buying a German Klaus Uebel Mahogany(?) bow for the more inexpensive fiddle, and what I believe is a genuine Pernambuco bow made in Brazil by D. Chagas for the better fiddle. The Chagas bow is also round, not hexagonal, like most less expensive bows. In any case, neither of them cost a lot of money. Each of them complement their fiddles and give me no end of pleasure. Volume! Tone! Balance! Ease of play!

Sep 22, 2021 - 7:06:36 PM

200 posts since 4/9/2009

quote:
Originally posted by ChickenMan

This is why we need moderators, to remind people to be civil. Your choice of words were not civil. 


I'm always worried by those who insist that people cannot possibly get along without constant moderation or oversight from a higher power. If you will allow them, most people can get along just fine, and figure out things on their own. They can problem solve, disagree, agree to disagree, etc. 

I prefer the occasional dust-up to a sterile, heavily-moderated, conformist environment. I guess that's more like actual real life to me. Must the moderation police be called for anytime people get passionate about a viewpoint? What a boring world (and site) that would be.  

BTW, you are making a totally subjective and judgemental statement when you accuse someone of incivility. Which you did. Twice. But I did not feel the need to agitate for a moderator to censor your somewhat judgemental attitude. You had your opinion and THAT WAS FINE. No problem!

It's easy if you get used to it.

Sep 22, 2021 - 7:28:39 PM

292 posts since 4/15/2019

Couldn't have said it better Chris!

Sep 22, 2021 - 8:49:06 PM
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Earworm

USA

235 posts since 1/30/2018

Words matter, and I’ve certainly been in online groups that became toxic. It’s not pretty, and there’s nothing wrong with moderators keeping an eye out when things go sour.

Sep 22, 2021 - 11:32:27 PM

59 posts since 5/1/2010

How about the mods installing an algorithm to filter out "offensive" speech? What exactly is "offensive?" Don't worry, the algorithms at Facebook, YouTube, and other sites have got it all figured out! Trust the algorithms! They know best!

Sep 23, 2021 - 4:31:41 AM
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12496 posts since 9/23/2009

Playing the fiddle ain't a cheap hobby...that's why it took me to the age of 55 to ever get my own...lol. Guitar is so much cheaper. I'm glad I finally got going with fiddle...but yeah, it took me to retirement age before I could afford to even try to get started playing. Strings, bows, all the other stuff that can go wrong.

Well but anyway...I've been kicked off a couple of forums before, myself. By moderators who didn't like the way I talked. Honestly, I thought I was being polite...ain't in my nature to be rude, I don't think...but I think why they booted me off was just an intolerance for my expressing my opinion freely, even if it was politely done, at least I think so and hope so. To me, FHO has seemed to be the best forum I've ever been on....yes, people argue...that's what happens when opinons get flowing...doesn't have to end badly...just ... argument has to happen to examine a topic thoroughly. Seems to me people here have been pretty nice to each other. I appreciate the folks here for that....disagree, argue it out, but we are all friends.

Sep 23, 2021 - 7:13:36 AM
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200 posts since 4/9/2009

quote:
Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

To me, FHO has seemed to be the best forum I've ever been on....yes, people argue...that's what happens when opinons get flowing...doesn't have to end badly...just ... argument has to happen to examine a topic thoroughly. Seems to me people here have been pretty nice to each other. I appreciate the folks here for that....disagree, argue it out, but we are all friends.


I agree with these sentiments!

Edited by - East Texas Fiddle on 09/23/2021 07:14:10

Sep 23, 2021 - 7:41:48 AM
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292 posts since 4/15/2019

Amen Peggy!

Sep 23, 2021 - 9:38:47 AM
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12496 posts since 9/23/2009

Hurray for FHO members! It’s been such a great hangout over the years.

Sep 23, 2021 - 10:26:52 AM
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558 posts since 3/1/2020

quote:
Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

...To me, FHO has seemed to be the best forum I've ever been on....yes, people argue...that's what happens when opinons get flowing...doesn't have to end badly...just ... argument has to happen to examine a topic thoroughly. Seems to me people here have been pretty nice to each other. I appreciate the folks here for that....disagree, argue it out, but we are all friends.


I feel much the same way. 

Sep 24, 2021 - 10:42:13 PM

16 posts since 9/20/2007

I thought this was a question on how long between rehairs.

For me 6-8 months using horse hair and playing about 1-2 hours a day.
I do lean on my bows pretty heavy...break a lot of hair at about six months

Don’t like synthetic

Sep 24, 2021 - 11:58:18 PM

1904 posts since 12/11/2008

quote:
Originally posted by Gallaher

I thought this was a question on how long between rehairs.

For me 6-8 months using horse hair and playing about 1-2 hours a day.
I do lean on my bows pretty heavy...break a lot of hair at about six months

Don’t like synthetic


Wow... I don't break many hairs.  Over time they just begin to lose their ability to grip the strings and make them sing.

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