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Jul 23, 2021 - 4:24:49 AM

13451 posts since 9/23/2009

Yeah, he was good. He went to a lot of stuff in our area and he was a good musician.

Jul 23, 2021 - 4:54:14 AM
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RichJ

USA

709 posts since 8/6/2013

quote:
Originally posted by pete_fiddle

The G & D strings give you G Ionian, G moxolydian, G Dorian and G Aolian. Thats The Parent keys of G Maj, C Maj, F Maj and Bb Maj.

The D & A strings give you D Ionian, D mixolydian, D Dorian, and D Aolian. Thats the parent keys of D Maj, G Maj, C Maj and F Maj.

The A & E strings Give you A Ionian, A Mixolydian, A Dorian and A Aolian, Thats the parent keys of A Maj, D Maj, G Maj and C maj.

So thats all the tunes from Bb to A on the circle of 5ths (Bb, F, C, G, D, and A) and their relative "Natural minor" keys
(Gm,Dm,Am,Em,and F#m) covered. Basically 99% of all fiddle tunes in normal fiddle keys i would imagine, on 2 strings in 1st position using only 3 fingers! That's without even considering the Lydian and locrian modes which i have omitted due to the augmented 4th or diminished 5th intervals.

A small shift and the equation increases seemingly exponentially, to include all the rest of the keys apart from F# Major (Gb), and C# Major (Db) and their relative natural minors which have no open strings to help with a shift, and so are closed position scales. Apart from their totally gorgeous relative harmonic and melodic minor keys which do have open pivot strings.

Thats how versatile and musically logical standard tuning in 5ths is, and why it is the most used tuning imo. Other tunings seem to be rather limiting in comparison to me.


Hey Pete - Pretty impressive explanation on tuning in 5ths. Sounds like you have extensive knowledge of music theory. So I'm gonna' ask you about something I recently heard and it blew me away. Saw someone on YT a few days back made the case for Ab NOT being the same as G#. Having had a few years of piano lessons as a kid,  I know these notes are exactly the same on a piano keyboard. Yet, the person on YT was adamant and said they weren't and you could hear the difference when they were played properly according to strict music theory. Any thoughts on this?   

Jul 23, 2021 - 5:48:29 AM
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5879 posts since 9/26/2008

Rich, that idea comes from the pre-equal temperament tuning we use now, which makes the major third harmony very rough (when compared to a true major 3rd).

I'll explain it in the simplest terms (that make sense to me anyway). Essentially, the advent of the keyboard ruined harmony because they are a harmonic compromise devised to play in all keys without retuning. When a piano is tuned, some notes are purposefully tuned to have those 'out of tune' beats. Because you don't have frets, you can play in better tune. Each whole tone, ex: G to A, can be divided up into 9 equal pieces that are called commas. The note called Ab is 5 commas away from the G. The note called A# is 4 commas away, thus Ab is slightly higher in pitch than G#. The early keyboard was built with split black keys to account for this. Early violin finger placement charts showed the two different notes. If you were to use two tone generators set to create what is a pure third, and then compare that to the difference in frequency that is a modern third, you would immediately hear the dissonance and call it out of tune. ?

Jul 23, 2021 - 6:07:01 AM
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DougD

USA

10648 posts since 12/2/2007

Billy, I think you meant to say "The note called G# is 4 commas away," not A#. That makes a bit more sense.

Jul 23, 2021 - 1:05:59 PM

1917 posts since 4/6/2014

The difference to me seems to be in the "Function" of the degrees of a scale rather than in the math(s). The degrees of a Scale or Gamut of notes, seem to have their own individual "Melodic Function" the same as the simple Triads have their respective "Harmonic Function".

After all when you hear what is perceived to be  a single  note or tone, you are not hearing a single tone or note, you are hearing an amalgamation of the  audio frequencies and associated noise that make up that tone or note. The strongest in amplitude of these being the fundamental, then the 5th, and then the 3rd and so on.

So when you play two notes together it is not a simple "Double Stop" (Two frequencies played simultaneously),  but two "Chords" (and their associated noise) played simultaneously.

That includes the implied cadence, and thus the "Function" of the double stop, (perfect, plagal, or deceptive, etc...).

So a  perceived  single note, say Ab in one Key or Gamut of notes, has a totally different "Function" when played in another key or gamut. And so is described differently....Say G# rather than Ab....But that's just my opinion...To others it may be a simple case of math(s)

Jul 23, 2021 - 7:01:03 PM
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256 posts since 9/6/2011

Excuse me for pulling back off topic,again for a minute....but, I wanted to mention Hiram Stamper's son ,Art.

One of my fiddle heros, he played old time and with many in bluegrass,like Ralph Stanley and The Goins.

He played his dad's tunes and much,much more. He lived on his farm 2 miles down the Salt River from my house until he died a few years ago.

When he wasn't on the road, he was a hair dresser in the Louisville area.

If interested look him up on U-tube,there is much there and that includes a trip by Arron Marshal(sp) to play music with him before he died. Back to your regular program, thanks for listening.

Jul 24, 2021 - 4:47:53 AM

5879 posts since 9/26/2008

I've always liked Art's playing.

By the way, "Aaron" is the masculine spelling. "Erin" is typically female, though she spells her name with a "y" and an extra "n" so given that, you guessed close enough. And an extra "L" in the last name smiley

Jul 24, 2021 - 5:27:06 AM

5879 posts since 9/26/2008

Oops, I did say A#. G# is what I meant. Thanks Doug.

Jul 24, 2021 - 6:11:54 PM
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256 posts since 9/6/2011

youtube.com/watch?v=4doEdlEjf-c

Thanks Billy. I am lucky to remember how to spell my own name,sometime.

Above is a link to the trip to Art's,that I mentioned. Art and Erynn are favorites of mine.

I appreciate all of you fiddlers that make this a great site. Thank you all.

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Jul 24, 2021 - 6:48 PM

13451 posts since 9/23/2009

Thanks for sharing that, Dwight!

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