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Apr 8, 2021 - 5:57:33 PM
27 posts since 4/20/2014

I’ve been practicing Cherokee Shuffle in the key of D with some Steve Kaufman CD’s. Then I watch on YT and most are playing in A. So what is the common key for this tune? It’s frustrating to practice hard on a tune and then at a jam you find out it’s in a different key.

Apr 8, 2021 - 6:04:39 PM
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DougD

USA

10063 posts since 12/2/2007

I think "Cherokee Shuffle" is usually in A (or sometimes possibly in G). "Lost Indian," a closely related tune, is in D.

Apr 8, 2021 - 6:11:10 PM

27 posts since 4/20/2014

Oh well, back to the drawing board LOl!

Apr 8, 2021 - 6:21:41 PM
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367 posts since 6/11/2019

I play it in key of A(maj). Because the dude that taught it to me played it in A. Since I know of no lyrics for folks to sing in another key, that's what I play it in.

D would be same fingering as A, but move left one string (on a right-handed).

Apr 8, 2021 - 6:53:40 PM

27 posts since 4/20/2014

I guess that’ll mean some up the neck work on that E string playing in A...

Apr 8, 2021 - 7:03:33 PM
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367 posts since 6/11/2019

quote:
Originally posted by kragerin

I guess that’ll mean some up the neck work on that E string playing in A...


Naw, if you learned it in D, just go right one string to play in A...same finger patterns in first position

You got a group there in Morrilton that jams?  Better learning from them than online forum...

We got  this here 2 hours from you, but maybe start up a Central AR chapter?

Apr 8, 2021 - 7:45:04 PM
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DougD

USA

10063 posts since 12/2/2007

Here's a recording by Tommy Jackson, who supposedly created this tune: youtu.be/z8NV09jDrWQ
Notice he plays it AAB in structure. And no, you don't have to go up the neck. Sometimes people go to a high C# in the B part for variety, but you don't have to.
There are also some good versions on YouTube by Byron Berline.

Apr 8, 2021 - 8:00:17 PM
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DougD

USA

10063 posts since 12/2/2007

Just for comparison, here's a recording of "Lost Indian" by Marion Sumner and Jesse McReynolds: youtu.be/PBCY00k6eag

Apr 8, 2021 - 9:05:48 PM
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27 posts since 4/20/2014

quote:
Originally posted by Flat_the_3rd_n7th
quote:
Originally posted by kragerin

I guess that’ll mean some up the neck work on that E string playing in A...


Naw, if you learned it in D, just go right one string to play in A...same finger patterns in first position

You got a group there in Morrilton that jams?  Better learning from them than online forum...

We got  this here 2 hours from you, but maybe start up a Central AR chapter?


Yeah, we've got a little bunch of guys that try to get together once a week.  I've been teaching myself for three months now.  I took my fiddle last time and played a few for them.  It was okay.  You gotta start somewhere.  Did pretty well on Ragtime Annie.  I'm pretty close in nailing that high B at the end of Annie, so I'll be messing around with those high notes on Cherokee Shuffle.  It's fun because it's a challenge.  I usually play slide with these guys, dobro and lap steel, so they were surprised when I walked in with a fiddle.  First time we'd been together in over a year.  But I'm having a big time, and I really appreciate you guys helping me out!

Larry

Apr 8, 2021 - 9:14:42 PM

27 posts since 4/20/2014

quote:
Originally posted by DougD

Here's a recording by Tommy Jackson, who supposedly created this tune: youtu.be/z8NV09jDrWQ
Notice he plays it AAB in structure. And no, you don't have to go up the neck. Sometimes people go to a high C# in the B part for variety, but you don't have to.
There are also some good versions on YouTube by Byron Berline.


Yeah, that big shift on the E string might be a little above my pay grade right now so I will find a way to improvise around it starting out, but I will still fool with getting up there.  I can't help myself...lol!  I go out to my shop nearly everyday and just let 'er rip! Lol!

Thanks BTW on Berline.  I'll check him out.  I've also been listening to a guy last name Holt.  Can't remember his first name....

Larry

Edited by - kragerin on 04/08/2021 21:17:02

Apr 9, 2021 - 12:39:10 AM

27 posts since 4/20/2014

quote:
Originally posted by DougD

Just for comparison, here's a recording of "Lost Indian" by Marion Sumner and Jesse McReynolds: youtu.be/PBCY00k6eag


Yeah, they are real similar, except when it goes to the B part it doesn't go into the IV chord.  Pretty cool!

Apr 9, 2021 - 4:54:57 AM
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5117 posts since 9/26/2008

You play slide? You can reach the C#. Just slide you finger on up there a few times to get the feel for where it is. You're at an advantage having played without frets, you know how to use those ears!

Apr 9, 2021 - 5:40:15 AM
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DougD

USA

10063 posts since 12/2/2007

Here's Byron Berline playing "Cherokee Shuffle" in a band context: youtu.be/GDCF1jR3C4U
And no, you don't have to improvise to avoid the high C#. Just the opposite - its not really part of the tune, and people are adding an improvisation when they include it. Tommy Jackson didn't play it, and you don't have to either!

Apr 9, 2021 - 1:39:42 PM
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Peghead

USA

1607 posts since 1/21/2009

There will be different ideas about this. The old time tune Lost Indian as I know it, is a three part tune in D or G (occasionally). Cherokee Shuffle seems to be an abbreviated Bluegrass adaptation, basically the same tune but played in A (one string over on the fiddle) as a two part tune omitting the middle part from the OT version. I play them both (they're the same)  but I think the old time version has more going for it with that middle part in there. It just sounds more complete to my ears. In the OT version the middle part is what creates the tension and the third part just drops into place perfectly and makes more sense to me musically. To me the BG version sounds like something's missing. 

Edited by - Peghead on 04/09/2021 13:55:09

Apr 9, 2021 - 2:15:26 PM
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DougD

USA

10063 posts since 12/2/2007

Yes, probably different ideas and preferences.
You'll have do a little digging, but at about 15:00 you'll fnd Tommy Magness playing "Lost Indian." digi.countrymusichalloffame.or...o/id/7375
He was closely associated with this tune, and I've never heard it played just like this. I'm including it partly because it has a steel break!
BTW, the origins of these tunes has been discussed here before, and you can find them in the archive.

Apr 9, 2021 - 3:06:26 PM
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Peghead

USA

1607 posts since 1/21/2009

Interesting - The versions of Lost Indian by Summer and Magness don't have a 3rd part.

Apr 12, 2021 - 6:17:26 PM

8 posts since 3/20/2020

Cherokee Shuffle is a great tune, one of my favorites. It is great because playing it one string over gives you Lost Indian, two songs and you only have to learn it once!

Apr 12, 2021 - 8:50:09 PM
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Mobob

USA

153 posts since 10/1/2009

they are not the same tunes, different B parts.
there are many "Lost Indians", in many keys, some with hollering parts.

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