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Okay, Fiddle Hangout, here's a list of bowing patterns for you. Have fun picking it apart.
1. |DDDDDDDD|
2. |DDDDDDDU|
3. |DDDDDDUD|
4. |DDDDDDUU|
5. |DDDDDUDD|
6. |DDDDDUDU|
7. |DDDDDUUD|
8. |DDDDDUUU|
9. |DDDDUDDD|
10. |DDDDUDDU|
11. |DDDDUDUD|
12. |DDDDUDUU|
13. |DDDDUUDD|
14. |DDDDUUDU|
15. |DDDDUUUD|
16. |DDDDUUUU|
17. |DDDUDDDD|
18. |DDDUDDDU|
19. |DDDUDDUD|
20. |DDDUDDUU|
21. |DDDUDUDD|
22. |DDDUDUDU|
23. |DDDUDUUD|
24. |DDDUDUUU|
25. |DDDUUDDD|
26. |DDDUUDDU|
27. |DDDUUDUD|
28. |DDDUUDUU|
29. |DDDUUUDD|
30. |DDDUUUDU|
31. |DDDUUUUD|
32. |DDDUUUUU|
33. |DDUDDDDD|
34. |DDUDDDDU|
35. |DDUDDDUD|
36. |DDUDDDUU|
37. |DDUDDUDD|
38. |DDUDDUDU|
39. |DDUDDUUD|
40. |DDUDDUUU|
41. |DDUDUDDD|
42. |DDUDUDDU|
43. |DDUDUDUD|
44. |DDUDUDUU|
45. |DDUDUUDD|
46. |DDUDUUDU|
47. |DDUDUUUD|
48. |DDUDUUUU|
49. |DDUUDDDD|
50. |DDUUDDDU|
51. |DDUUDDUD|
52. |DDUUDDUU|
53. |DDUUDUDD|
54. |DDUUDUDU|
55. |DDUUDUUD|
56. |DDUUDUUU|
57. |DDUUUDDD|
58. |DDUUUDDU|
59. |DDUUUDUD|
60. |DDUUUDUU|
61. |DDUUUUDD|
62. |DDUUUUDU|
63. |DDUUUUUD|
64. |DDUUUUUU|
65. |DUDDDDDD|
66. |DUDDDDDU|
67. |DUDDDDUD|
68. |DUDDDDUU|
69. |DUDDDUDD|
70. |DUDDDUDU|
71. |DUDDDUUD|
72. |DUDDDUUU|
73. |DUDDUDDD|
74. |DUDDUDDU|
75. |DUDDUDUD|
76. |DUDDUDUU|
77. |DUDDUUDD|
78. |DUDDUUDU|
79. |DUDDUUUD|
80. |DUDDUUUU|
81. |DUDUDDDD|
82. |DUDUDDDU|
83. |DUDUDDUD|
84. |DUDUDDUU|
85. |DUDUDUDD|
86. |DUDUDUDU|
87. |DUDUDUUD|
88. |DUDUDUUU|
89. |DUDUUDDD|
90. |DUDUUDDU|
91. |DUDUUDUD|
92. |DUDUUDUU|
93. |DUDUUUDD|
94. |DUDUUUDU|
95. |DUDUUUUD|
96. |DUDUUUUU|
97. |DUUDDDDD|
98. |DUUDDDDU|
99. |DUUDDDUD|
100. |DUUDDDUU|
101. |DUUDDUDD|
102. |DUUDDUDU|
103. |DUUDDUUD|
104. |DUUDDUUU|
105. |DUUDUDDD|
106. |DUUDUDDU|
107. |DUUDUDUD|
108. |DUUDUDUU|
109. |DUUDUUDD|
110. |DUUDUUDU|
111. |DUUDUUUD|
112. |DUUDUUUU|
113. |DUUUDDDD|
114. |DUUUDDDU|
115. |DUUUDDUD|
116. |DUUUDDUU|
117. |DUUUDUDD|
118. |DUUUDUDU|
119. |DUUUDUUD|
120. |DUUUDUUU|
121. |DUUUUDDD|
122. |DUUUUDDU|
123. |DUUUUDUD|
124. |DUUUUDUU|
125. |DUUUUUDD|
126. |DUUUUUDU|
127. |DUUUUUUD|
128. |DUUUUUUU|
129. |UDDDDDDD|
130. |UDDDDDDU|
131. |UDDDDDUD|
132. |UDDDDDUU|
133. |UDDDDUDD|
134. |UDDDDUDU|
135. |UDDDDUUD|
136. |UDDDDUUU|
137. |UDDDUDDD|
138. |UDDDUDDU|
139. |UDDDUDUD|
140. |UDDDUDUU|
141. |UDDDUUDD|
142. |UDDDUUDU|
143. |UDDDUUUD|
144. |UDDDUUUU|
145. |UDDUDDDD|
146. |UDDUDDDU|
147. |UDDUDDUD|
148. |UDDUDDUU|
149. |UDDUDUDD|
150. |UDDUDUDU|
151. |UDDUDUUD|
152. |UDDUDUUU|
153. |UDDUUDDD|
154. |UDDUUDDU|
155. |UDDUUDUD|
156. |UDDUUDUU|
157. |UDDUUUDD|
158. |UDDUUUDU|
159. |UDDUUUUD|
160. |UDDUUUUU|
161. |UDUDDDDD|
162. |UDUDDDDU|
163. |UDUDDDUD|
164. |UDUDDDUU|
165. |UDUDDUDD|
166. |UDUDDUDU|
167. |UDUDDUUD|
168. |UDUDDUUU|
169. |UDUDUDDD|
170. |UDUDUDDU|
171. |UDUDUDUD|
172. |UDUDUDUU|
173. |UDUDUUDD|
174. |UDUDUUDU|
175. |UDUDUUUD|
176. |UDUDUUUU|
177. |UDUUDDDD|
178. |UDUUDDDU|
179. |UDUUDDUD|
180. |UDUUDDUU|
181. |UDUUDUDD|
182. |UDUUDUDU|
183. |UDUUDUUD|
184. |UDUUDUUU|
185. |UDUUUDDD|
186. |UDUUUDDU|
187. |UDUUUDUD|
188. |UDUUUDUU|
189. |UDUUUUDD|
190. |UDUUUUDU|
191. |UDUUUUUD|
192. |UDUUUUUU|
193. |UUDDDDDD|
194. |UUDDDDDU|
195. |UUDDDDUD|
196. |UUDDDDUU|
197. |UUDDDUDD|
198. |UUDDDUDU|
199. |UUDDDUUD|
200. |UUDDDUUU|
201. |UUDDUDDD|
202. |UUDDUDDU|
203. |UUDDUDUD|
204. |UUDDUDUU|
205. |UUDDUUDD|
206. |UUDDUUDU|
207. |UUDDUUUD|
208. |UUDDUUUU|
209. |UUDUDDDD|
210. |UUDUDDDU|
211. |UUDUDDUD|
212. |UUDUDDUU|
213. |UUDUDUDD|
214. |UUDUDUDU|
215. |UUDUDUUD|
216. |UUDUDUUU|
217. |UUDUUDDD|
218. |UUDUUDDU|
219. |UUDUUDUD|
220. |UUDUUDUU|
221. |UUDUUUDD|
222. |UUDUUUDU|
223. |UUDUUUUD|
224. |UUDUUUUU|
225. |UUUDDDDD|
226. |UUUDDDDU|
227. |UUUDDDUD|
228. |UUUDDDUU|
229. |UUUDDUDD|
230. |UUUDDUDU|
231. |UUUDDUUD|
232. |UUUDDUUU|
233. |UUUDUDDD|
234. |UUUDUDDU|
235. |UUUDUDUD|
236. |UUUDUDUU|
237. |UUUDUUDD|
238. |UUUDUUDU|
239. |UUUDUUUD|
240. |UUUDUUUU|
241. |UUUUDDDD|
242. |UUUUDDDU|
243. |UUUUDDUD|
244. |UUUUDDUU|
245. |UUUUDUDD|
246. |UUUUDUDU|
247. |UUUUDUUD|
248. |UUUUDUUU|
249. |UUUUUDDD|
250. |UUUUUDDU|
251. |UUUUUDUD|
252. |UUUUUDUU|
253. |UUUUUUDD|
254. |UUUUUUDU|
255. |UUUUUUUD|
256. |UUUUUUUU|
quote:
Originally posted by tonyelderNames... gotta have names. What good are patterns without names?
Well, all the common patterns, that I know of, are there..
No. 1 and 256 are the whole bow.
No. 30 is the Smooth Shuffle.
No. 35, is the Georgia Shuffle.
No. 46, is the Single Shuffle.
No. 103, is called Chain Bowing.
No. 110, is the Synco Shuffle.
I have begun to wonder how many bowings we can group bowings into families based on definitions like these. If we consider the "upside-down" version of a bowing pattern the same as the "right-side up" version, it narrows the list down to 128.
quote:
Originally posted by buckhenryquote:
Originally posted by tonyelderNames... gotta have names. What good are patterns without names?
Well, all the common patterns, that I know of, are there..
No. 1 and 256 are the whole bow.
No. 30 is the Smooth Shuffle.
No. 35, is the Georgia Shuffle.
No. 46, is the Single Shuffle.
No. 103, is called Chain Bowing.
No. 110, is the Synco Shuffle.
Edited by - soppinthegravy on 09/25/2020 18:41:51
quote:
Originally posted by soppinthegravyI have begun to wonder how many bowings we can group bowings into families based on definitions like these.quote:
Originally posted by buckhenryquote:
Originally posted by tonyelderNames... gotta have names. What good are patterns without names?
Well, all the common patterns, that I know of, are there..
No. 1 and 256 are the whole bow.
No. 30 is the Smooth Shuffle.
No. 35, is the Georgia Shuffle.
No. 46, is the Single Shuffle.
No. 103, is called Chain Bowing.
No. 110, is the Synco Shuffle.
Bowing patterns No. 18, 69, and 137 are variants of the Georgia Shuffle.
And I would guess that the variations of the other patterns named would be included.
Oh, and No. 86 is the Saw Stroke. And No. 87 is known as the Sawshuffle.
Include No. 222 as another variant of the Georgia Shuffle.
Edited by - buckhenry on 09/25/2020 18:53:55
quote:
Originally posted by Brian WoodNo way will I spend any time on that.
Since I have recently been practicing most of the common bow patterns, just over scales and phrases and not really intending to memorize or use any of them strictly in a tune, but allow them to be deeply ingrained in my subconscious. I have noticed great improvements in my bow control, such as tone quality and bow co-ordination. So I was hungry for more possible bow patterns, of which I found in this list, and thusly saved me much time indeed.
Thanks! That's funny and interesting at the same time. I've run through a few at random and can see that they all could have a place if applied musically and in the right context. For me it really underscores what I've come to believe - that the melody is the master and the bowing must serve it, not the other way around. Pogo would be so proud of you! you've mapped the 8 note genome. Now that's just one measure, imagine all the possibilities in a tune! No wonder there are so many damn versions. Now we must be careful not to use these powers for evil.
Actually something sort of like this is what I'm doing in my lessons. Playing the scale with different bowing patterns. Not all of them (maybe not any of them) have anything to do with old-time bowing patterns. But all have been helpful in gaining skill. My teacher makes me do the patterns not just for the sake of the pattern but in combination with having to keep the bow straight, playing in tune, using the whole bow, and using other techniques she has been showing me.
I don't think you need 256 different patterns, but it's useful to pick some patterns without worrying if they have anything at all to do with the music you want to play. It's good to gain some skills. You might find it surprises you where it helps.
Showing every possible combination possible isn't musical. It's a mathematical diversion. Anything is a better use of fiddling time. I agree with the poster who said bowing should follow the melody, which means notes and phrasing.
The recurring bowing fetish threads on this site are something else. I know, just don't read them. I try but that's hard.
quote:
Originally posted by Lonesome FiddlerYeah, it's an interesting exercise to document every bowing pattern but how does it help where it counts, in making you a better player? Are you really going to memorize it? Why not just listen to a tune and suss a pattern out?
Practicing bow patterns, even just on an open string, will improve your bow control and tone. You will eventually memorize them, especially the common patterns, after you practice them enough times. Of course a melody may dictate a pattern, but there are always many possibilities.
Actually, the possibilities are endless; this list is not just one bar of 8th notes, imagine if you begin stringing them together, you'll have 2,3,4, etc measures.
For sure, music is mathematics.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_mathematics
quote:
Originally posted by buckhenryActually, the possibilities are endless; this list is not just one bar of 8th notes, imagine if you begin stringing them together, you'll have 2,3,4, etc measures.
For sure, music is mathematics.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_mathematics
You're a good enough fiddler I have to accept your opinion. I don't know for sure, but I think I'd find some large number of those bowings already in my playing if I looked for it. Once I learned the basic shuffles and a few Kenny Baker and other tunes, I just started to bow intuitively. I do occasionally stop and work on a trouble spot, but otherwise I have ways of playing groups of notes that serve me well. If a person wants to bury themselves in the minutia of arcane bowing possibilities who am I to care? Music can be described mathematically after the fact, but it's unnecessary to use that approach in order to play it IMO, except in a broad general sense like knowing a few shuffles and understanding a bit of theory. Numbers are a rabbit hole where you can disappear.
Edited by - Brian Wood on 09/26/2020 16:52:43
I agree. Y'all should know that I used an online permutation and combination generator to make that list. I like the idea of having it as a tool to fine tune my bowing, and I sometimes have fun trying to transcribe bowing, but it's just a tool. Somebody on here, I can't remember who, once said of sheet music "Never confuse the map with the terrain", and that stuck with me. I think this applies to bowing analysis as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Brian WoodShowing every possible combination possible isn't musical. It's a mathematical diversion. Anything is a better use of fiddling time. I agree with the poster who said bowing should follow the melody, which means notes and phrasing.
The recurring bowing fetish threads on this site are something else. I know, just don't read them. I try but that's hard.
quote:
Originally posted by Brian WoodIf a person wants to bury themselves in the minutia of arcane bowing possibilities who am I to care?
You missed my point entirely...
I see these bow patterns as a way to improve my bow control and tone, and a challenge to expand my Grey matter.
But, when it comes to playing a tune, I agree also, that ''the bowing should follow the melody''.
quote:
Originally posted by buckhenryquote:
Originally posted by tonyelderNames... gotta have names. What good are patterns without names?
Well, all the common patterns, that I know of, are there..
No. 1 and 256 are the whole bow.
No. 30 is the Smooth Shuffle.
No. 35, is the Georgia Shuffle.
No. 46, is the Single Shuffle.
No. 103, is called Chain Bowing.
No. 110, is the Synco Shuffle.
Dang.. I'm impressed.. Not that you can name so many, but that you LOOKED at them all to come up with those name... !!!
quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaverthat you LOOKED at them all to come up with those name... !!!
I haven't LOOKED at ALL of them YET....
I know HOW the NAMED patterns go, SO it was EASY to FIND them WITHOUT going through the WHOLE list.....
ACTUALLY, in terms of analyzing them I am ONLY up to number 30, so I'll let you know when I get to the END......
Edited by - buckhenry on 09/26/2020 18:20:23
farmerjones - The largest number that can be expressed with eight bits is 255, but the smallest is 00000000, and Daniel started his list with #1, so he ended up at #256.
Rather than name them all, why not just set D=1 and U=0 (or vice versa) and number them by the number represented in base 10. Would save a lot of time and effort.
quote:
Originally posted by soppinthegravyonline permutation and combination generator
In Indian music they have the improvisational style called 'Merukhand' which involves permutations of a set of notes.
This is why my interest in the bowing permutations.
quote:
Originally posted by DougDfarmerjones - The largest number that can be expressed with eight bits is 255, but the smallest is 00000000, and Daniel started his list with #1, so he ended up at #256.
Rather than name them all, why not just set D=1 and U=0 (or vice versa) and number them by the number represented in base 10. Would save a lot of time and effort.
There are 10 types of people, those who understand binary and those that don't.
quote:
Originally posted by alaskafiddlerquote:
Originally posted by DougDfarmerjones - The largest number that can be expressed with eight bits is 255, but the smallest is 00000000, and Daniel started his list with #1, so he ended up at #256.
Rather than name them all, why not just set D=1 and U=0 (or vice versa) and number them by the number represented in base 10. Would save a lot of time and effort.There are 10 types of people, those who understand binary and those that don't.
Don't forget gray-code. I have.
I have a question, maybe a dumb one since I seldom participate in bowing discussions much. My question is about what is being shown in these patterns. For instance I very occasionally bow 3 up bows in a row, like the place in Jerusalem Ridge where Kenny does it. Mostly though I bow up then down, or down then up. It's almost never that I bow succeeding eighth notes with the same direction bow (unless it's a long bow with slurred notes). I often play saw stroke for several eighth notes in a row.
So that's all I really do, up and down. The rest is how long you play the stroke and what happens in your left hand (slurs). The patterns here seem to show eight eighth notes but no mention of timing and slurs. Bowing 3 eight notes in a row with an 3 up bows is not the same as bowing a beat an a half with one up bow and slurs (or a held note). The vast majority of these patterns would never be used by anybody if they're all eighth notes, right?
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