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A List of 256 Possible One-Bar Bowing Combinations

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Sep 25, 2020 - 4:19:08 PM
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1304 posts since 7/26/2015

Okay, Fiddle Hangout, here's a list of bowing patterns for you. Have fun picking it apart.

1. |DDDDDDDD|
2. |DDDDDDDU|
3. |DDDDDDUD|
4. |DDDDDDUU|
5. |DDDDDUDD|
6. |DDDDDUDU|
7. |DDDDDUUD|
8. |DDDDDUUU|
9. |DDDDUDDD|
10. |DDDDUDDU|
11. |DDDDUDUD|
12. |DDDDUDUU|
13. |DDDDUUDD|
14. |DDDDUUDU|
15. |DDDDUUUD|
16. |DDDDUUUU|
17. |DDDUDDDD|
18. |DDDUDDDU|
19. |DDDUDDUD|
20. |DDDUDDUU|
21. |DDDUDUDD|
22. |DDDUDUDU|
23. |DDDUDUUD|
24. |DDDUDUUU|
25. |DDDUUDDD|
26. |DDDUUDDU|
27. |DDDUUDUD|
28. |DDDUUDUU|
29. |DDDUUUDD|
30. |DDDUUUDU|
31. |DDDUUUUD|
32. |DDDUUUUU|
33. |DDUDDDDD|
34. |DDUDDDDU|
35. |DDUDDDUD|
36. |DDUDDDUU|
37. |DDUDDUDD|
38. |DDUDDUDU|
39. |DDUDDUUD|
40. |DDUDDUUU|
41. |DDUDUDDD|
42. |DDUDUDDU|
43. |DDUDUDUD|
44. |DDUDUDUU|
45. |DDUDUUDD|
46. |DDUDUUDU|
47. |DDUDUUUD|
48. |DDUDUUUU|
49. |DDUUDDDD|
50. |DDUUDDDU|
51. |DDUUDDUD|
52. |DDUUDDUU|
53. |DDUUDUDD|
54. |DDUUDUDU|
55. |DDUUDUUD|
56. |DDUUDUUU|
57. |DDUUUDDD|
58. |DDUUUDDU|
59. |DDUUUDUD|
60. |DDUUUDUU|
61. |DDUUUUDD|
62. |DDUUUUDU|
63. |DDUUUUUD|
64. |DDUUUUUU|
65. |DUDDDDDD|
66. |DUDDDDDU|
67. |DUDDDDUD|
68. |DUDDDDUU|
69. |DUDDDUDD|
70. |DUDDDUDU|
71. |DUDDDUUD|
72. |DUDDDUUU|
73. |DUDDUDDD|
74. |DUDDUDDU|
75. |DUDDUDUD|
76. |DUDDUDUU|
77. |DUDDUUDD|
78. |DUDDUUDU|
79. |DUDDUUUD|
80. |DUDDUUUU|
81. |DUDUDDDD|
82. |DUDUDDDU|
83. |DUDUDDUD|
84. |DUDUDDUU|
85. |DUDUDUDD|
86. |DUDUDUDU|
87. |DUDUDUUD|
88. |DUDUDUUU|
89. |DUDUUDDD|
90. |DUDUUDDU|
91. |DUDUUDUD|
92. |DUDUUDUU|
93. |DUDUUUDD|
94. |DUDUUUDU|
95. |DUDUUUUD|
96. |DUDUUUUU|
97. |DUUDDDDD|
98. |DUUDDDDU|
99. |DUUDDDUD|
100. |DUUDDDUU|
101. |DUUDDUDD|
102. |DUUDDUDU|
103. |DUUDDUUD|
104. |DUUDDUUU|
105. |DUUDUDDD|
106. |DUUDUDDU|
107. |DUUDUDUD|
108. |DUUDUDUU|
109. |DUUDUUDD|
110. |DUUDUUDU|
111. |DUUDUUUD|
112. |DUUDUUUU|
113. |DUUUDDDD|
114. |DUUUDDDU|
115. |DUUUDDUD|
116. |DUUUDDUU|
117. |DUUUDUDD|
118. |DUUUDUDU|
119. |DUUUDUUD|
120. |DUUUDUUU|
121. |DUUUUDDD|
122. |DUUUUDDU|
123. |DUUUUDUD|
124. |DUUUUDUU|
125. |DUUUUUDD|
126. |DUUUUUDU|
127. |DUUUUUUD|
128. |DUUUUUUU|
129. |UDDDDDDD|
130. |UDDDDDDU|
131. |UDDDDDUD|
132. |UDDDDDUU|
133. |UDDDDUDD|
134. |UDDDDUDU|
135. |UDDDDUUD|
136. |UDDDDUUU|
137. |UDDDUDDD|
138. |UDDDUDDU|
139. |UDDDUDUD|
140. |UDDDUDUU|
141. |UDDDUUDD|
142. |UDDDUUDU|
143. |UDDDUUUD|
144. |UDDDUUUU|
145. |UDDUDDDD|
146. |UDDUDDDU|
147. |UDDUDDUD|
148. |UDDUDDUU|
149. |UDDUDUDD|
150. |UDDUDUDU|
151. |UDDUDUUD|
152. |UDDUDUUU|
153. |UDDUUDDD|
154. |UDDUUDDU|
155. |UDDUUDUD|
156. |UDDUUDUU|
157. |UDDUUUDD|
158. |UDDUUUDU|
159. |UDDUUUUD|
160. |UDDUUUUU|
161. |UDUDDDDD|
162. |UDUDDDDU|
163. |UDUDDDUD|
164. |UDUDDDUU|
165. |UDUDDUDD|
166. |UDUDDUDU|
167. |UDUDDUUD|
168. |UDUDDUUU|
169. |UDUDUDDD|
170. |UDUDUDDU|
171. |UDUDUDUD|
172. |UDUDUDUU|
173. |UDUDUUDD|
174. |UDUDUUDU|
175. |UDUDUUUD|
176. |UDUDUUUU|
177. |UDUUDDDD|
178. |UDUUDDDU|
179. |UDUUDDUD|
180. |UDUUDDUU|
181. |UDUUDUDD|
182. |UDUUDUDU|
183. |UDUUDUUD|
184. |UDUUDUUU|
185. |UDUUUDDD|
186. |UDUUUDDU|
187. |UDUUUDUD|
188. |UDUUUDUU|
189. |UDUUUUDD|
190. |UDUUUUDU|
191. |UDUUUUUD|
192. |UDUUUUUU|
193. |UUDDDDDD|
194. |UUDDDDDU|
195. |UUDDDDUD|
196. |UUDDDDUU|
197. |UUDDDUDD|
198. |UUDDDUDU|
199. |UUDDDUUD|
200. |UUDDDUUU|
201. |UUDDUDDD|
202. |UUDDUDDU|
203. |UUDDUDUD|
204. |UUDDUDUU|
205. |UUDDUUDD|
206. |UUDDUUDU|
207. |UUDDUUUD|
208. |UUDDUUUU|
209. |UUDUDDDD|
210. |UUDUDDDU|
211. |UUDUDDUD|
212. |UUDUDDUU|
213. |UUDUDUDD|
214. |UUDUDUDU|
215. |UUDUDUUD|
216. |UUDUDUUU|
217. |UUDUUDDD|
218. |UUDUUDDU|
219. |UUDUUDUD|
220. |UUDUUDUU|
221. |UUDUUUDD|
222. |UUDUUUDU|
223. |UUDUUUUD|
224. |UUDUUUUU|
225. |UUUDDDDD|
226. |UUUDDDDU|
227. |UUUDDDUD|
228. |UUUDDDUU|
229. |UUUDDUDD|
230. |UUUDDUDU|
231. |UUUDDUUD|
232. |UUUDDUUU|
233. |UUUDUDDD|
234. |UUUDUDDU|
235. |UUUDUDUD|
236. |UUUDUDUU|
237. |UUUDUUDD|
238. |UUUDUUDU|
239. |UUUDUUUD|
240. |UUUDUUUU|
241. |UUUUDDDD|
242. |UUUUDDDU|
243. |UUUUDDUD|
244. |UUUUDDUU|
245. |UUUUDUDD|
246. |UUUUDUDU|
247. |UUUUDUUD|
248. |UUUUDUUU|
249. |UUUUUDDD|
250. |UUUUUDDU|
251. |UUUUUDUD|
252. |UUUUUDUU|
253. |UUUUUUDD|
254. |UUUUUUDU|
255. |UUUUUUUD|
256. |UUUUUUUU|

Sep 25, 2020 - 5:44:22 PM
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5810 posts since 8/7/2009

Names...  gotta have names. What good are patterns without names?  smiley

Sep 25, 2020 - 5:57:42 PM
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2232 posts since 8/23/2008
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Wow, some of those patterns require serious bow technique.

Sep 25, 2020 - 6:16:40 PM
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2232 posts since 8/23/2008
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quote:
Originally posted by tonyelder

Names...  gotta have names. What good are patterns without names?  smiley


Well, all the common patterns, that I know of, are there..

No. 1 and 256 are the whole bow.

No. 30 is the Smooth Shuffle.

No. 35, is the Georgia Shuffle.

No. 46, is the Single Shuffle.

No. 103, is called Chain Bowing.

No. 110, is the Synco Shuffle. 

Sep 25, 2020 - 6:22:44 PM

1304 posts since 7/26/2015

I have begun to wonder how many bowings we can group bowings into families based on definitions like these. If we consider the "upside-down" version of a bowing pattern the same as the "right-side up" version, it narrows the list down to 128.
quote:
Originally posted by buckhenry
quote:
Originally posted by tonyelder

Names...  gotta have names. What good are patterns without names?  smiley


Well, all the common patterns, that I know of, are there..

No. 1 and 256 are the whole bow.

No. 30 is the Smooth Shuffle.

No. 35, is the Georgia Shuffle.

No. 46, is the Single Shuffle.

No. 103, is called Chain Bowing.

No. 110, is the Synco Shuffle. 


Edited by - soppinthegravy on 09/25/2020 18:41:51

Sep 25, 2020 - 6:41:34 PM

2232 posts since 8/23/2008
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quote:
Originally posted by soppinthegravy
I have begun to wonder how many bowings we can group bowings into families based on definitions like these.
quote:
Originally posted by buckhenry
quote:
Originally posted by tonyelder

Names...  gotta have names. What good are patterns without names?  smiley


Well, all the common patterns, that I know of, are there..

No. 1 and 256 are the whole bow.

No. 30 is the Smooth Shuffle.

No. 35, is the Georgia Shuffle.

No. 46, is the Single Shuffle.

No. 103, is called Chain Bowing.

No. 110, is the Synco Shuffle. 


 


Bowing patterns No. 18, 69, and 137 are variants of the Georgia Shuffle.
And I would guess that the variations of the other patterns named would be included.
Oh, and No. 86 is the Saw Stroke. And No. 87 is known as the Sawshuffle.
Include No. 222 as another variant of the Georgia Shuffle.

Edited by - buckhenry on 09/25/2020 18:53:55

Sep 25, 2020 - 6:55:04 PM
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11335 posts since 9/23/2009

oh no...lol...uh-uh...

Sep 25, 2020 - 7:52 PM
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1819 posts since 8/27/2008

No way will I spend any time on that.

Sep 25, 2020 - 8:36:26 PM

2232 posts since 8/23/2008
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Wood

No way will I spend any time on that.


Since I have recently been practicing most of the common bow patterns, just over scales and phrases and not really intending to memorize or use any of them strictly in a tune, but allow them to be deeply ingrained in my subconscious. I have noticed great improvements in my bow control, such as tone quality and bow co-ordination. So I was hungry for more possible bow patterns, of which I found in this list, and thusly saved me much time indeed. 

Sep 26, 2020 - 3:58:07 AM
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Peghead

USA

1582 posts since 1/21/2009

Thanks! That's funny and interesting at the same time. I've run through a few at random and can see that they all could have a place if applied musically and in the right context. For me it really underscores what I've come to believe - that the melody is the master and the bowing must serve it, not the other way around. Pogo would be so proud of you! you've mapped the 8 note genome. Now that's just one measure, imagine all the possibilities in a tune! No wonder there are so many damn versions. Now we must be careful not to use these powers for evil.

Sep 26, 2020 - 6:40:06 AM
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571 posts since 8/10/2017

Actually something sort of like this is what I'm doing in my lessons. Playing the scale with different bowing patterns. Not all of them (maybe not any of them) have anything to do with old-time bowing patterns. But all have been helpful in gaining skill. My teacher makes me do the patterns not just for the sake of the pattern but in combination with having to keep the bow straight, playing in tune, using the whole bow, and using other techniques she has been showing me.

I don't think you need 256 different patterns, but it's useful to pick some patterns without worrying if they have anything at all to do with the music you want to play. It's good to gain some skills. You might find it surprises you where it helps.

Sep 26, 2020 - 9:59:36 AM
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1819 posts since 8/27/2008

Showing every possible combination possible isn't musical. It's a mathematical diversion. Anything is a better use of fiddling time. I agree with the poster who said bowing should follow the melody, which means notes and phrasing.

The recurring bowing fetish threads on this site are something else. I know, just don't read them. I try but that's hard.

Sep 26, 2020 - 10:55:03 AM

1672 posts since 12/11/2008

Yeah, it's an interesting exercise to document every bowing pattern but how does it help where it counts, in making you a better player? Are you really going to memorize it? Why not just listen to a tune and suss a pattern out?

Edited by - Lonesome Fiddler on 09/26/2020 10:56:49

Sep 26, 2020 - 3:46:38 PM

2232 posts since 8/23/2008
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quote:
Originally posted by Lonesome Fiddler

Yeah, it's an interesting exercise to document every bowing pattern but how does it help where it counts, in making you a better player? Are you really going to memorize it? Why not just listen to a tune and suss a pattern out?


 

Practicing bow patterns, even just on an open string, will improve your bow control and tone. You will eventually memorize them, especially the common patterns, after you practice them enough times. Of course a melody may dictate a pattern, but there are always many possibilities.  

Actually, the possibilities are endless;  this list is not just one bar of 8th notes, imagine if you begin stringing them together, you'll have 2,3,4, etc measures.

For sure, music is mathematics..  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_mathematics

Sep 26, 2020 - 4:37:46 PM
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3556 posts since 12/8/2007

Woohoooo. This is the FHO I love.

Yet, alas, I count 256.42 possible patterns. And I use them all. #35 is the Sierran Sidewinder.

Sep 26, 2020 - 4:41:44 PM
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1819 posts since 8/27/2008

quote:
Originally posted by buckhenry

Actually, the possibilities are endless;  this list is not just one bar of 8th notes, imagine if you begin stringing them together, you'll have 2,3,4, etc measures.

For sure, music is mathematics..  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_mathematics


You're a good enough fiddler I have to accept your opinion. I don't know for sure, but I think I'd find some large number of those bowings already in my playing if I looked for it. Once I learned the basic shuffles and a few Kenny Baker and other tunes, I just started to bow intuitively. I do occasionally stop and work on a trouble spot, but otherwise I have ways of playing groups of notes that serve me well. If a person wants to bury themselves in the minutia of arcane bowing possibilities who am I to care? Music can be described mathematically after the fact, but it's unnecessary to use that approach in order to play it IMO, except in a broad general sense like knowing a few shuffles and understanding a bit of theory. Numbers are a rabbit hole where you can disappear.

Edited by - Brian Wood on 09/26/2020 16:52:43

Sep 26, 2020 - 4:52:58 PM
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2072 posts since 10/22/2007

Ok, so a few of us will relate this to 8 bit binary math. But for some reason i thought the largest number expressed in 8 bits is 255. Kids these days, don't know . Even the micro controllers have 64bits archetecture. I'd have given my eye teeth for 16bit micros.

Sep 26, 2020 - 5:22:27 PM
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1304 posts since 7/26/2015

I agree. Y'all should know that I used an online permutation and combination generator to make that list. I like the idea of having it as a tool to fine tune my bowing, and I sometimes have fun trying to transcribe bowing, but it's just a tool. Somebody on here, I can't remember who, once said of sheet music "Never confuse the map with the terrain", and that stuck with me. I think this applies to bowing analysis as well.      
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Wood

Showing every possible combination possible isn't musical. It's a mathematical diversion. Anything is a better use of fiddling time. I agree with the poster who said bowing should follow the melody, which means notes and phrasing.

The recurring bowing fetish threads on this site are something else. I know, just don't read them. I try but that's hard.


Sep 26, 2020 - 5:30:05 PM
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2232 posts since 8/23/2008
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Wood
If a person wants to bury themselves in the minutia of arcane bowing possibilities who am I to care? 

You missed my point entirely...  

I see these bow patterns as a way to  improve my bow control and tone, and a challenge to expand my Grey matter.

But, when it comes to playing a tune, I agree also, that ''the bowing should follow the melody''.

Sep 26, 2020 - 5:56:34 PM
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8761 posts since 3/19/2009

quote:
Originally posted by buckhenry
quote:
Originally posted by tonyelder

Names...  gotta have names. What good are patterns without names?  smiley


Well, all the common patterns, that I know of, are there..

No. 1 and 256 are the whole bow.

No. 30 is the Smooth Shuffle.

No. 35, is the Georgia Shuffle.

No. 46, is the Single Shuffle.

No. 103, is called Chain Bowing.

No. 110, is the Synco Shuffle. 


Dang.. I'm impressed.. Not that you can name so many, but that you LOOKED at them all to come up with those name... !!!laugh

Sep 26, 2020 - 6:05:12 PM
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2232 posts since 8/23/2008
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quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaver
that you LOOKED at them all to come up with those name... !!!laugh

I  haven't LOOKED at ALL of them YET....

I know HOW the NAMED patterns go, SO it was EASY to FIND them WITHOUT going through the WHOLE list..... wink

ACTUALLY, in terms of analyzing them I am ONLY up to number 30, so I'll let you know when I get to the END......

Edited by - buckhenry on 09/26/2020 18:20:23

Sep 26, 2020 - 6:28:36 PM
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DougD

USA

9798 posts since 12/2/2007
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farmerjones - The largest number that can be expressed with eight bits is 255, but the smallest is 00000000, and Daniel started his list with #1, so he ended up at #256.
Rather than name them all, why not just set D=1 and U=0 (or vice versa) and number them by the number represented in base 10. Would save a lot of time and effort.

Sep 26, 2020 - 6:53:29 PM

2232 posts since 8/23/2008
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by soppinthegravy
 online permutation and combination generator

 


In Indian music they have the improvisational style called 'Merukhand' which involves permutations of a set of notes. 

This is why my interest in the bowing permutations. 

http://vishwamohini.com/music/merukhand-generator.php

Sep 26, 2020 - 8:48:08 PM
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2643 posts since 9/13/2009

quote:
Originally posted by DougD

farmerjones - The largest number that can be expressed with eight bits is 255, but the smallest is 00000000, and Daniel started his list with #1, so he ended up at #256.
Rather than name them all, why not just set D=1 and U=0 (or vice versa) and number them by the number represented in base 10. Would save a lot of time and effort.


There are 10 types of people, those who understand binary and those that don't.

Sep 27, 2020 - 8:27:37 AM

2072 posts since 10/22/2007

quote:
Originally posted by alaskafiddler
quote:
Originally posted by DougD

farmerjones - The largest number that can be expressed with eight bits is 255, but the smallest is 00000000, and Daniel started his list with #1, so he ended up at #256.
Rather than name them all, why not just set D=1 and U=0 (or vice versa) and number them by the number represented in base 10. Would save a lot of time and effort.


There are 10 types of people, those who understand binary and those that don't.


Don't forget gray-code. I have. smiley

Sep 27, 2020 - 11:56:22 AM
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1819 posts since 8/27/2008

I have a question, maybe a dumb one since I seldom participate in bowing discussions much. My question is about what is being shown in these patterns. For instance I very occasionally bow 3 up bows in a row, like the place in Jerusalem Ridge where Kenny does it. Mostly though I bow up then down, or down then up. It's almost never that I bow succeeding eighth notes with the same direction bow (unless it's a long bow with slurred notes). I often play saw stroke for several eighth notes in a row.

So that's all I really do, up and down. The rest is how long you play the stroke and what happens in your left hand (slurs). The patterns here seem to show eight eighth notes but no mention of timing and slurs. Bowing 3 eight notes in a row with an 3 up bows is not the same as bowing a beat an a half with one up bow and slurs (or a held note). The vast majority of these patterns would never be used by anybody if they're all eighth notes, right?

 

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