Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

101
Fiddle Lovers Online


Page: 1  2   3   Next Page   Last Page (3) 

Aug 13, 2020 - 6:10:31 PM
likes this
9037 posts since 3/19/2009

I suspect that some of you think that you lose a tune's 'flow' if you try to play slowly and that is what prompted this topic..
As I mentioned in today's Busking stories topic, I played Porter's Reel very slowly for a LONG time today.... I mean VERY slowly.. I knew that the bow-flow was the Key to getting the sound I wanted and I kept forcing myself to have Complete control of the bow/slur/cadence.. I found that at "almost" slow I sort of had it but found that from time to time I'd vary and lose 'something' in the execution.. So I went slower and slower with complete focus on the BOW.. What was the bow doing for Each note? I wanted to KNOW.... It was an enlightening experience......I can still play the tune various ways ( I AM the Tuneweaver, after alllaugh)...but found that a Dedicated way made most sense...BY slow I mean maybe 20 bpm or slower .. (didn't count).
Your comments?

Edited by - TuneWeaver on 08/13/2020 18:11:01

Aug 13, 2020 - 6:18:48 PM
likes this

DougD

USA

10033 posts since 12/2/2007

Did your audience find that interesting?

Aug 13, 2020 - 6:21:40 PM

9037 posts since 3/19/2009

I made big tips!!! I mostly did the SLOW playing when the passersby were few.. (I know where my bread is buttered..so to speak).. There was plenty of time to play slow and I'd kick it up when people came by..smiley

Tomorrow, I'll try the same thing with "Hail, Hail, THe Fun's All Over".. That may be interesting..

Edited by - TuneWeaver on 08/13/2020 18:34:54

Aug 13, 2020 - 6:34:26 PM
like this

89 posts since 6/8/2020

Great practice technique. Playing slowly (or very slowly) can be tricky to do as our ability to operate on autopilot is taken away. It really does require a ton of control. I have a metronome that will go down to 30 bpm which for traditional music is pretty darn slow.

Aug 13, 2020 - 6:35:52 PM

89 posts since 6/8/2020

On another note, I plan to try busking in the near future. Big tips sounds like fun!

Aug 13, 2020 - 6:38:46 PM
likes this

9037 posts since 3/19/2009

  1. quote:

Originally posted by Johnbow

Great practice technique. Playing slowly (or very slowly) can be tricky to do as our ability to operate on autopilot is taken away. It really does require a ton of control. I have a metronome that will go down to 30 bpm which for traditional music is pretty darn slow.


Thanks for the comment.. When I'm doing this the tune becomes secondary.. the 'flow' of the bow is the main focus..I'm seeking NO disruption in the feeling that my bow is 'dancing'.. Certainly, I'm no expert but I did learn a lot by challenging myself in a way that I don't do usually.. Can't wait to get on the street tomorrow with another tune.....(I'm staying with relatives and can't play in the house..so busking is my only chance to play!!)

Aug 13, 2020 - 7:04:55 PM
likes this

9037 posts since 3/19/2009

quote:
Originally posted by Johnbow

On another note, I plan to try busking in the near future. Big tips sounds like fun!


It is always a crap shoot!!! I made just  $2 the first 1/2 hour...THEN, got three (3) $5 tips in a row within the next  ten minutes.. Ya never know.. Busking is more fun that a fiddler can imagine..It has a way of boosting your ego one minute and shattering your ego the next.. I've learned to just leave my ego in the car.. Harry Hare's ego is big enough for the two of us. (BTW, Harry Hare is my fiddle playing marionette)..Today I had fun telling college students that me and Harry had college degrees in Music Performance, and that if 'they' didn't study hard  at something different that they'd be out here on the street corner like us.. Except I told them to go to a different corner ..we don't need the competition..

Edited by - TuneWeaver on 08/13/2020 19:09:02

Aug 13, 2020 - 7:54:04 PM

BR5-49

USA

208 posts since 1/3/2019

I enjoy playing slow pieces... and a variety of pieces with different tempos. The ballad tunes as airs and slower hornpipes. And marches. I've spent a lot of time on it... meaning honing the art of it as well as performing to get a slow tune over to an audience. Some of my best moments on stage have been watching tears well up in someone's eyes or watching someone close their eyes and get into a slow piece. Slow doesn't always mean quiet. Besides bow control etc., dynamics is a big part of it.

Aug 13, 2020 - 9:40:01 PM

89 posts since 6/8/2020

quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaver
quote:
Originally posted by Johnbow

On another note, I plan to try busking in the near future. Big tips sounds like fun!


It is always a crap shoot!!! I made just  $2 the first 1/2 hour...THEN, got three (3) $5 tips in a row within the next  ten minutes.. Ya never know.. Busking is more fun that a fiddler can imagine..It has a way of boosting your ego one minute and shattering your ego the next.. I've learned to just leave my ego in the car.. Harry Hare's ego is big enough for the two of us. (BTW, Harry Hare is my fiddle playing marionette)..Today I had fun telling college students that me and Harry had college degrees in Music Performance, and that if 'they' didn't study hard  at something different that they'd be out here on the street corner like us.. Except I told them to go to a different corner ..we don't need the competition..


Turf wars for buskers!

Aug 13, 2020 - 9:42:57 PM

89 posts since 6/8/2020

quote:
Originally posted by ShawnCraver

I enjoy playing slow pieces... and a variety of pieces with different tempos. The ballad tunes as airs and slower hornpipes. And marches. I've spent a lot of time on it... meaning honing the art of it as well as performing to get a slow tune over to an audience. Some of my best moments on stage have been watching tears well up in someone's eyes or watching someone close their eyes and get into a slow piece. Slow doesn't always mean quiet. Besides bow control etc., dynamics is a big part of it.


I think you've nailed it man - splendid tone!  Bow control, dynamics and Tone. I'm ready for your next video. 

Aug 14, 2020 - 5:15:08 AM
like this
Players Union Member

carlb

USA

2307 posts since 2/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaver

I suspect that some of you think that you lose a tune's 'flow' if you try to play slowly


Yes, I do. There are slow tunes, but to slow down tunes, that I usually play at a faster tempo, loses a lot for me.

Aug 14, 2020 - 5:29:51 AM

9037 posts since 3/19/2009

quote:
Originally posted by carlb
quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaver

I suspect that some of you think that you lose a tune's 'flow' if you try to play slowly


Yes, I do. There are slow tunes, but to slow down tunes, that I usually play at a faster tempo, loses a lot for me.


In this case my goal is to go slow only until I can develop Desired brain/bow control .Then, I'll increase speed as needed...  

Aug 14, 2020 - 12:34:50 PM
like this

Swing

USA

2009 posts since 6/26/2007
Online Now

I will play tunes slowly, very slowly to work on my bowing...it is a great exercise in becoming more fluid and smooth...did I say frustrating at first...yep, but worth the effort

Play Happy

Swing

Aug 14, 2020 - 7:05:54 PM
like this

5851 posts since 8/7/2009

quote:
Originally posted by carlb
quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaver

I suspect that some of you think that you lose a tune's 'flow' if you try to play slowly


Yes, I do. There are slow tunes, but to slow down tunes, that I usually play at a faster tempo, loses a lot for me.


I thought Carl's point deserved to be looked at again. I do practice slow tunes slow. 

Aug 14, 2020 - 7:49:32 PM

BR5-49

USA

208 posts since 1/3/2019

Thanks Johnbow !

Aug 15, 2020 - 2:06:49 PM

89 posts since 6/8/2020

Just a fan. :)

Aug 16, 2020 - 12:42:08 AM

2665 posts since 9/13/2009

BY slow I mean maybe 20 bpm or slower ..

One beat every three seconds??? Would timing, "in time" even matter? Could be wrong, but pretty sure that would defy any sensibility to the meaning of the music and rhythm; or even concept of "beat" and timing. I suspect something else is happening. IIRC something like 40bpm is the lowest end of cognition of beat/meter...  depending on the tune, possibly higher than that before a psycho-acoustic doubling shift phenomenon would happen.

Can you post an example??

Aug 16, 2020 - 5:39:01 AM

9037 posts since 3/19/2009

quote:
Originally posted by alaskafiddler

BY slow I mean maybe 20 bpm or slower ..

One beat every three seconds??? Would timing, "in time" even matter? Could be wrong, but pretty sure that would defy any sensibility to the meaning of the music and rhythm; or even concept of "beat" and timing. I suspect something else is happening. IIRC something like 40bpm is the lowest end of cognition of beat/meter...  depending on the tune, possibly higher than that before a psycho-acoustic doubling shift phenomenon would happen.

Can you post an example??


The group may be missing my point.. I played that slowly primarily in areas where I wanted to SEE, visually, and Feel, what my bow hand was doing.. not just in making a bow stroke but  seeing and feeling if the Changes between bow direction were smooth and not jerky..not questionable.. There was not need to play the entire tune that slowly....I also have difficulty with timing if I try to play an entire tune that slow.. I was trying to work bow Kinks....Timing did NOT matter, but I just gave that number to indicate how slow I went in areas that I was working on.. Some parts of the tune offered no difficulty...but I still slowed those parts down enough to feel the 'dance' of my bow..  ?Comprendes?

Aug 16, 2020 - 5:55:26 AM

2262 posts since 8/23/2008

quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaver
Comprendes?

 


Yeah sure, but why not just practice long-slow bows on a scale...?

Aug 16, 2020 - 5:58:31 AM

9037 posts since 3/19/2009

quote:
Originally posted by buckhenry
quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaver
Comprendes?

 


Yeah sure, but why not just practice long-slow bows on a scale...?


But why not ALSO practice SHORT SLOW bows where I need them ??smiley

Aug 16, 2020 - 7:51:59 AM
like this

5851 posts since 8/7/2009

In my head, I hear what I think should be played, and I work it out at tempo - the note choices, the rhythm, accents, phrasing, and bowing. Then if I struggle with any of that - I might work on that part at a tempo where I can validate my choices. But I will always include playing the same passage at tempo during that practice session. 

FOR ME... learning a tune at an extremely slow tempo doesn't mean I will (or should) play it that same way at tempo. The bowing may not work as well, the accents are usually different, sometimes even the note selection might need to be different in a phrase.

But... if that's what it takes for some - and it works, then be encouraged.  

Edited by - tonyelder on 08/16/2020 07:52:53

Aug 16, 2020 - 8:20:50 AM

5096 posts since 9/26/2008
Online Now

Yes, I play SOME passages slowly IF there is a hitch in getting it 'right' at closer to dance speed. I also play long slow bows as needed to loosen my bowing arm.

I may, when refreshing my memory, play the tune slow-ish once before really playing it. I seldom play at the slow tempo that I hear where folks are saying it was a "hypnotic groove." I have no idea what bpm that would be, just that it is slower than I generally choose to play.

Aug 16, 2020 - 8:23:50 AM

2665 posts since 9/13/2009

quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaver
?Comprendes?

 


Not really. Oh well.

In the comment of flow of a tune... I thought it was meant to be in context of sound like the tune, or at least musical.

I enjoy playing tunes slowly... I do encourage others in these exercises; but for maybe different reasons, not for technical reasons and control... but rather the opposite... help illustrate how it's not just notes and timing or letting composition and tempo do all the work...  but  the players input, breath, performance aspects and nuance, that make it expressive, give the type of feel, groove and flow.

edit,  The slow hypnotic groove is similar, great exercise... and the slower groove is harder for folks who just playing notes in time.

There is a similar concept in dance. Slower can be more difficult hard to keep in time; if it lacks  feel/sense of weight, balance, sway, flow.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 08/16/2020 08:38:37

Aug 16, 2020 - 9:00:35 AM

9037 posts since 3/19/2009

Sometimes ideas get lost in translation.. We can get lost in words/phrases and miss the big picture.........My big picture is "play as slowly as NEEDED, those parts the are not smooth, with focus on the 'dance' of the bow"...

Aug 16, 2020 - 9:28:55 AM

11840 posts since 9/23/2009

When I was growing up, sometimes I would sit in the shade on a lazy summer afternoon when I felt half asleep and go ridiculously slowly just through a tune, maybe for an hour straight, the same tune. It was always very enlightening...I just learned so much doing that. I went back to it later as an adult in the efforts to gain the insights I'd gotten as a child doing that sort of thing...I mean SLOW...like, ridiculously so. No audience...they probably couldn't have named that tune...lol...it was so slow and I was letting it go where it wanted to go.

Then back with all the bowing discussions and such, I started trying to do that sort of thing when I got myself a fiddle at the age of 55...just, well, I had played a little bit of fiddle in my past here and there, just never had an instrument so I never got to work on it much...you can only borrow a fiddle for so many days at at time...lol...but anyway, at 55, I could at least pull the bow and make notes, so it wasn't learning from square one, but I was very interested in all the bowing whatevers and whichevers and the interplay between notes and bowing, etc. So i tried to sometimes duplicate that "state of strum," actually picking but what my old friends used to call it...played extremely slowly and just let stuff happen...I still don't like playing fast...you lose a lot of stuff when it's fast, although I know most people do like fast music. I don't want ridiculously slow music all the time, but I've learned I like it played slow because there seems to be more audible stuff going on when you keep it on the slow side, to me at least.

Aug 16, 2020 - 9:58:31 AM
like this

BR5-49

USA

208 posts since 1/3/2019

But isn't the topic kind of shifting from performance to practice? There may be a few bowing exercises apart from tunes I might practice sometimes, but if I'm playing/performing a tune for myself or others, I'm playing it to enjoy it and make it musical whether playing slow or fast.

From a practice standpoint... There is a time for slowing down things to learn, but playing fast requires playing fast. So practicing slow in order to play fast later can be a stumbling block.

Edited by - BR5-49 on 08/16/2020 10:00:53

Page: 1  2   3   Next Page   Last Page (3) 

Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.203125