This is a great question. It was brave of you to post, it clarifies things. Your playing is good by the way! I would agree with others, your wrist (and fingers) are not participating in the motion. This is a very common thing. The muscle groups in bowing, from course to fine would be - back! shoulder, elbow, wrist, fingers. Since they are the finest, the wrist (with loose fingers) are what drives the speed of UDUD motion and they also initiate the string crossings. (google "violin spiccato sautillé bowing") The elbow and shoulder are along for the ride and catch up as needed. Think wrist. Right now your motion is traveling the other way, down from shoulder to elbow which can only go so fast. Start with long bows tip to frog to see the entire wrist motion. Even though you don't do that too much in fiddling, it's an exercise that will will help loosen things up. When your wrist opens up, your playing will make huge strides, you're right there. You'll have to back up a little and rethink things, it won't take very long, maybe a couple of months! Keep the hairs perpendicular to the strings and you will see how your wrist naturally rises and falls at the extremes. Then check out "spiccato sautillé" it will be an eye opener. Stay loose and relaxed.

Boxbow said it a few posts ago --- you don't have to play ALL the notes. You've already gotten a number of good suggestions for exercises but for me the fallback position when in a jam that's too fast --- or with tunes that are very notey or tunes I just don't know well (like many Irish tunes) is to play fewer notes while staying within the chord. It's also a good idea to learn to play 2-string chords on the fiddle for situations like this since the chord changes go much slower than the note changes.

If you’re can’t lilt up to tempo, you’ll never play up to tempo. Technique can only get you so far without mentally being able to think the tempo. I have no suggestions other than work on lilting or whistling or whatever as a deliberate practice and to lilt along with lots of recordings.

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

If you’re can’t lilt up to tempo, you’ll never play up to tempo. Technique can only get you so far without mentally being able to think the tempo. I have no suggestions other than work on lilting or whistling or whatever as a deliberate practice and to lilt along with lots of recordings.

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The magic of the fiddle makes it possible, that with practice a player can actually play faster than they can enunciate. But other than that, playing at  top lilting tempo is a worthy goal.

Peghead Greg, thank you. I think you describe my problem well here:

Start with long bows tip to frog to see the entire wrist motion. Even though you don't do that too much in fiddling, it's an exercise that will will help loosen things up. When your wrist opens up, your playing will make huge strides, you're right there. You'll have to back up a little and rethink things, it won't take very long, maybe a couple of months! Keep the hairs perpendicular to the strings and you will see how your wrist naturally rises and falls at the extremes. Then check out "spiccato sautillé" it will be an eye opener. Stay loose and relaxed.

I hope I can figure out how to get past this. It seems easy enough to try new things but as soon as I go to another jam it's back to the same old stuff.

Can it work okay to practice the long bows without a fiddle so that there is no noise? I saw in a video somewhere you could use a toiletpaper role and a dowel. Or maybe there is a way to do it with a fiddle but make it so there is no sound. Not muted sound, just no sound. I'm not alone here.

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Originally posted by sbhikes2

Can it work okay to practice the long bows without a fiddle so that there is no noise? I saw in a video somewhere you could use a toiletpaper role and a dowel. Or maybe there is a way to do it with a fiddle but make it so there is no sound. Not muted sound, just no sound. I'm not alone here.

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I use a dowel rod..!! makes SOME noise, but not a lot. You can also put a towel over the fiddle strings and use the back side of you regular bow to practice with.. No noise with this method..

Don't play fast.... Martin Hayes has made a reputation of playing Irish Music very slowly.... they joke about it saying that you need the famous speed up software to learn the tunes....

Play Happy

Swing

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Originally posted by Swing

Don't play fast.... Martin Hayes has made a reputation of playing Irish Music very slowly.... they joke about it saying that you need the famous speed up software to learn the tunes....

Play Happy

Swing

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Martin Hayes is SUCH an inspiration...

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Originally posted by sbhikes2

 

I hope I can figure out how to get past this. It seems easy enough to try new things but as soon as I go to another jam it's back to the same old stuff.

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There is much great advice given in this thread from players whom have studied and practiced for years the techniques that produce the most desirable sounds on the fiddle. It will take much more effort than just "to try new things"; you will need to focus on specific 'daily' exercises until the undesirable habits are eradicated and the  new habits developed.  

What I have taught my students is to think of your hand, holding a pencil and poking holes in a piece of stretched-out aluminum foil. I find it much easier to play fast by using my wrist in that fashion, but it does not work all the time.

So replace the pencil with your bow and then rotate it and your hand/arm, positioning it so that it is on the strings. Then do the same motion, trying to get the top of your hand facing the fiddle as much as possible.

But if you don't have the notes in your brain, the fastest hand/bow arm won't help.

Not that this is helpful or meaningful in any way whatsoever, but just reminded me...have you ever tried to play the fiddle with a toothpick???? Just for fun. I remember seeing people do that sometimes for laughs...Turkey in the Straw usually...back a long, long, long, etc., time ago. I tried it one day and it was so much easier than I expected it to be...just for kicks...really looks hard but amazingly doable.  Don't know why you'd want to...lol...but if you're like me, you just gotta try that out.

That's funny, Peggy - I was just thinking the same thing! You ought to be able to move a toothpick pretty fast!

I do have one more thing. You appear to lift your fingers quite a ways off the strings. Try keeping them closer, hovering just above the strings. Less distance to travel means less time between notes.

Along with standing against the wall, I have tried the trick of sticking a straw in the holes to try to help with bow straightness. It sounds awful. Is this supposed to always be the right place to bow the strings? Or do some fiddles have the bridge closer than others? I know my bridge is in the right place because it has been looked at by professionals. It sounds a lot better to bow on the other side of the straw and I can still measure my straightness.

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Originally posted by sbhikes2

Peghead Greg, thank you. I think you describe my problem well here:

Start with long bows tip to frog to see the entire wrist motion. Even though you don't do that too much in fiddling, it's an exercise that will will help loosen things up. When your wrist opens up, your playing will make huge strides, you're right there. You'll have to back up a little and rethink things, it won't take very long, maybe a couple of months! Keep the hairs perpendicular to the strings and you will see how your wrist naturally rises and falls at the extremes. Then check out "spiccato sautillé" it will be an eye opener. Stay loose and relaxed.

I hope I can figure out how to get past this. It seems easy enough to try new things but as soon as I go to another jam it's back to the same old stuff.

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Jams are an important part of practice, it's folk music after all and it's fun. I wouldn't stop going to jams although now with the social distancing it's on hold. You can do both. This is a perfect time to address technical issues. Sessions will improve only some aspects of your playing but not others. There's no substitute for focused, goal oriented practice done regularly, 15 minutes a night on task and change will happen.    

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Originally posted by Peghead

Jams are an important part of practice, it's folk music after all and it's fun. I wouldn't stop going to jams although now with the social distancing it's on hold. You can do both. This is a perfect time to address technical issues. Sessions will improve only some aspects of your playing but not others. There's no substitute for focused, goal oriented practice done regularly, 15 minutes a night on task and change will happen.    

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Lucky me we're going to try to do our old-time Jam tomorrow and I've been to 4 Irish jams in the last 4 weeks, one in the driveway and the others on the main street in our town. We made $100 in tips on the ones on the main street in our town. We wear masks and sit kind of far apart. It remains to be seen if the old-time jam will work out. Tomorrow will be the first try at it.

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Originally posted by Peghead

There's no substitute for focused, goal oriented practice done regularly, 15 minutes a night on task and change will happen.    

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Diane, you must realize that it is all about the BOW.. So... You need to tackle that.. learn to use your bow differently.. I'd suggest "LESSONS".. yep.. Nothing to be ashamed about.. Just get some professional advice..Problem solved.. Oh, and DO what that professional says to do..

I think lessons are good but it may be hard to find someone willing to help me. I'm an adult and been playing wrong for a long time. My friend takes lessons so I will ask who she takes them from.

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Originally posted by sbhikes2

I think lessons are good but it may be hard to find someone willing to help me. I'm an adult and been playing wrong for a long time. My friend takes lessons so I will ask who she takes them from.

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Any good fiddler who Can play fast would be someone to contact.. Good luck with that..

In the most recent video, I think your fingers are too far above the fingerboard. I keep mine 1/4" above it or slightly more.
Its like typing. If you hold your fingers an inch above the keyboard, your fingers have to travel down and then back up. Hard to type fast like that. Use a metronome [the absolute best way to increase speed]. Dial in a rate you can play accurately and increase it slightly. It also looks like your arm from shoulder to palm is stiff. It moves as a single unit. My upper arm doesn't move much but my forearm does. The elbow is a moving hinge between them. Look at videos of good players to see how flexible their elbows and wrists are.

Don't be concerned with playing fast, focus on the optimum movements that achieve the best quality of sound, then speed will come.

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Originally posted by sbhikes2

I think lessons are good but it may be hard to find someone willing to help me. I'm an adult and been playing wrong for a long time. My friend takes lessons so I will ask who she takes them from.

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You're not playing wrong! It's a stage. The wrist and fingers usually come along last. Unfortunately, fiddle tunes don't demand the whole bow so you have to learn to do it on the side. A loose wrist is not an immediate requirement but it's needed eventually to move forward. It's not a big deal.    

Actually I found a teacher. She said that she can show me how to operate the fiddle so that it's not so hard to play.