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May 21, 2019 - 6:30:28 PM
75 posts since 9/27/2011

Top of a 1912 Lyon and Healy 1031 Strad. Bass bar is parallel to the center seam, not at an angle. Why would they do that?  And the circle around the sound post site is a new one to me; any thoughts on what it's about? No sign anyone's been here since it was built so it looks to be original Mirecourt work.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.


May 22, 2019 - 4:47 AM

kjb

USA

653 posts since 6/8/2013

the wood does not look very oxidised to me for some reason, I guess the bass bar is just wrong, the ring looks like it was pressed into the wood, no clue?

May 22, 2019 - 9:05:31 AM

75 posts since 9/27/2011

Thanks for commenting. The work is extremely neat and clean but in person it's clearly from 1912. It's not a low end factory fiddle so i don't understand how they would fit the bass bar incorrectly but that's the only explanation I have as well. I'm having it replaced with one in the proper 'attitude.'

The pin hole in the circle seems to be the point of a drill bit  so perhaps when they were removing  meat from the top they went a little too far but that's mere speculation on my part.

Should make a very nice fiddle when it's put back together, i just wish i knew what these anomalies were about.

May 22, 2019 - 3:34:12 PM
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908 posts since 6/26/2007

There is no law that specifies the angle of the bass bar. According to a note I have from Norman Pickering, he did some tests to determine the effect on tone of various bar angles and found significant differences, so it should depend on the particular fiddle and what you are looking for. So in your case, getting it done "right" may or may not be an improvement. I've seen some pretty odd bass bars but I'm not in the business of "correcting" them.

The pinhole in the circle appears to me to be from one point of dividers, but I have no idea what the circle is for. That is above my pay grade.

Edited by - captainhook on 05/22/2019 15:37:29

May 22, 2019 - 4:15:14 PM

2342 posts since 9/13/2009

Just some observations.

The lower pinhole does look to be in dead center of the circle. The circle doesn't appear to complete.

The upper pinhole seems to be center between the lower pinhole and pencil mark line from f-hole. (also notice the distance from line to top of circle seems same spacing)

These might indicate some intent of measuring or calculating?

I do notice the bottom of the circle seems to line up with an inner point on f-hole. So maybe some calculation regarding making the f-holes; as it relates to optimum sound post position?

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 05/22/2019 16:23:54

May 22, 2019 - 4:38:03 PM

2342 posts since 9/13/2009

quote:

I do notice the bottom of the circle seems to line up with an inner point on f-hole. So maybe some calculation regarding making the f-holes; as it relates to optimum sound post position?


That would equate to the distance from sound post to lower f-hole point is 3/2 (simple one and half) distance of sound post to f-hole notch (pencil line). Not sure if this is what it is; but the spacing sure looks calculated that way... and such measuring techniques were common.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 05/22/2019 16:40:39

May 22, 2019 - 7:36:42 PM

75 posts since 9/27/2011

 

Quite a conundrum! It's supposed to be a Strad copy so I'll research Strad bass bars before doing anything. I s'pose if i leave it alone and it doesn't sound right I can always open her back up and replace it.

May 22, 2019 - 7:40:41 PM

75 posts since 9/27/2011

quote:
Originally posted by alaskafiddler
quote:

I do notice the bottom of the circle seems to line up with an inner point on f-hole. So maybe some calculation regarding making the f-holes; as it relates to optimum sound post position?


That would equate to the distance from sound post to lower f-hole point is 3/2 (simple one and half) distance of sound post to f-hole notch (pencil line). Not sure if this is what it is; but the spacing sure looks calculated that way... and such measuring techniques were common.


Makes sense. Thanks for the observations. I may never know, lol.

May 23, 2019 - 5:06:36 AM

145 posts since 11/26/2009

I dont really know much about bass bars but after googling pics there are a lot of differences in them. Kinda fascinating. google.com/search?q=pics+of+ba...ENsCnDuM:

May 23, 2019 - 3:18:38 PM
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75 posts since 9/27/2011

Thanks for the link. I found there's a long ongoing conversation regarding placement, size etc. and that at least one early work on violin making advocated a straight bass bar so for now I'll leave it as is. I generally prefer leaving things original unless there's a compelling reason to change and i don't see tht in this case. 

Thank you and all for the discussion, I'm crossing my fingers it will sound good!

Jun 16, 2019 - 12:13:03 PM

Jimbeaux

Germany

265 posts since 5/24/2016

quote:
Originally posted by jon bowman

Thanks for the link. I found there's a long ongoing conversation regarding placement, size etc. and that at least one early work on violin making advocated a straight bass bar so for now I'll leave it as is. I generally prefer leaving things original unless there's a compelling reason to change and i don't see tht in this case. 

Thank you and all for the discussion, I'm crossing my fingers it will sound good!


Just out of pure curiosity, why did you open it?

Jun 16, 2019 - 12:28:50 PM
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75 posts since 9/27/2011

quote:
Originally posted by Jimbeaux
quote:
Originally posted by jon bowman

Thanks for the link. I found there's a long ongoing conversation regarding placement, size etc. and that at least one early work on violin making advocated a straight bass bar so for now I'll leave it as is. I generally prefer leaving things original unless there's a compelling reason to change and i don't see tht in this case. 

Thank you and all for the discussion, I'm crossing my fingers it will sound good!


Just out of pure curiosity, why did you open it?


Came to me in pieces. Ended up having the bass bar redone. Now it's back together and has a gorgeous sound even with a flat bridge and Prims.


Jun 16, 2019 - 1:01:18 PM
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75 posts since 9/27/2011

 


Just out of pure curiosity, why did you open it?


Here's some of my pre-WWI Lyon and Healy fiddles. On the left is a German made 1019 - prolly by E.R Schmidt. Next are 2 1022s, one red and one brown, then a 1028, 1029 and 1031, all from Mirecourt. I wanted to collect the whole series from 1001 to 1033 but it's taken 8 years to get these plus a 1001,1002,1004 and 1008 so I've pretty much given up, lol.


Edited by - jon bowman on 06/16/2019 13:03:25

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