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May 16, 2018 - 10:40:25 AM
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10070 posts since 9/23/2009

Here's a little bit of fun while I should be doing my work!

youtu.be/bhO3dp8LtGk

May 16, 2018 - 1:54:20 PM
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1321 posts since 8/27/2008

Very nice!

May 17, 2018 - 5:36:13 AM

RichJ

USA

240 posts since 8/6/2013

Hi Peggy,

Just LOVE the slowed down way you play this tune. Up here (New England) it gets played much faster. "Shove the Pigs Foot" may not be a true OT fiddle tune, but if not and after hearing the way you play it, dang well should be.

Keep em' coming.

May 17, 2018 - 6:00:03 AM
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RichJ

USA

240 posts since 8/6/2013

Ooops, noticed in playing along you're playing in C major.

I'm used to playing this tune in G major, but think the lower range, at least for me, seems to give it more of an OT sound.

May 17, 2018 - 6:15:29 AM

DougD

USA

8763 posts since 12/2/2007

Rich, what makes you say this "may not be a true OT fiddle tune?" It comes from Marcus Martin - don't you think of him as an old time fiddler? slippery-hill.com/recording/sh...ther-fire
I think he generally tuned down, so this recording is in concert Ab, although he's playing n cross tuned A.

Edited by - DougD on 05/17/2018 06:20:36

May 17, 2018 - 7:20:26 AM

fidlpat

USA

446 posts since 5/11/2009

very nice, Peggy smiley

May 17, 2018 - 7:22:25 AM

RichJ

USA

240 posts since 8/6/2013

quote:
Originally posted by DougD

Rich, what makes you say this "may not be a true OT fiddle tune?" It comes from Marcus Martin - don't you think of him as an old time fiddler? slippery-hill.com/recording/sh...ther-fire
I think he generally tuned down, so this recording is in concert Ab, although he's playing n cross tuned A.


Hi Doug,  I'm certainly no authority on the subject of tune origins, but based on the way the tune gets played up here in Yankee Land, and I'm talking Eastern CT Swamp Yankee Land to boot, it just doesn't have an OT sound.

Re: origin, just checked with some of the rather lengthy comments on The Session website and though Marcus Martin is mentioned some seem to think is has Irish/British  origin. 

Regardless of the above I love Peggy's version of this tune - Key of C, heavy on the banjo and slooow.

BTW: this tune is also known as "Ruby with the Dancing Eyes".

Rich 

May 17, 2018 - 11:03:53 AM

10070 posts since 9/23/2009

This one doesn't always have an Old Time sound when i'v heard it played either...I guess it's sort of a strange tune that does weird things. I like most of 'em slowed down and lowered some...I tune my fiddle down because C won't work for me any other way...but I'm finding more and more I like it for playing...not for singing much though...it gets too low for my voice. I discovered the key of C when I bought my viola and then cello...cross tuning them to CGCG, which forced me to tune my fiddle down either to standard, down one step so FCGD, I guess it must be, or else instead of ADAD, GCGC, or whatever, so I can catch those tunes in C easy. When I go to singing anything I do have some problems to try to work out.

May 17, 2018 - 1:44:51 PM

158 posts since 6/21/2007
Online Now

Really liked your version, I could picture an old Appalachian couple playing on the porch as the sun went down.  It was also easy to pick up the fiddle part too, THANKS.

 The 2nd time thru my mind just started creating snippets of lyrics to it!  surprise  If anything developes I’ll post them.

May 17, 2018 - 6:27:04 PM

10070 posts since 9/23/2009

Cool...it's always fun to sing a fiddle tune!

May 18, 2018 - 6:03:24 AM

44 posts since 6/7/2011

Wow Had no Idea it was played up north. Here in East Tennessee our source for the tune is Charlie Acuff. I actually didnt know Marcus Martin played it but it makes since it would be played in East Tennessee and Western North Carolina both.

May 18, 2018 - 6:19:06 AM

44 posts since 6/7/2011

Actually I believe I may be mistaken about Shove that pigs foot not sure why I thought Charlie Acuff played it I cant find a recording of him playing it Im going to have to find my list of the tunes Charlie Played and see if it was in his Repertoire. Perhaps we did learn it from Marcus Martin but I play it in G not crosstuned. Now I really cant remember where I first learned the tune.

May 18, 2018 - 7:14:51 AM
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925 posts since 3/19/2009

FIDDLERS COMPANION:SHOVE THAT PIG'S FOOT A LITTLE FARTHER IN THE FIRE. Old-Time, Breakdown. G Major. Standard tuning. AB (Silberberg): AABB (Phillips, Songer). A ‘pig’s foot’ is a blacksmith’s tool that somewhat resembles a crowbar or poker, used to manipulate pieces of pig iron in a forge. The tune was originally recorded by western North Carolina fiddler Martin Marcus on an LP where he played it as a duet with his son Wayne. Marcus also recorded for the Library of Congress in the 1940's. Joel Shimberg (who says “Surely it’s a barbecue song”) learned the following verse to the (low part of the) tune from Mike Seegar:
***
Shove that pig's foot into the fire,
Do it now, Miss Liza,
Shove that pig's foot into the fire,
Do it now, Miss Liza.
***
The melody can be heard in the film Cold Mountain, albeit the producers saw fit to rename it “Ruby with Eyes that Sparkle.” Sources for notated versions: fiddler and violin maker Armin Barnett and Jere Canote (Seattle, Washington) [Phillips, Songer]; Tony Mates [Silberberg]. Phillips (Traditional American Fiddle Tunes), vol. 1, 1994; pg. 222. Silberberg (Tunes I Learned at Tractor Taven), 2002; pg. 145. Songer (Portland Collection), 1997; pg. 185. Rounder CD0421, Bruce Molsky - “Big Hoedown” (1997).

May 18, 2018 - 10:08:22 AM

10070 posts since 9/23/2009

Going by the words it sounds to me like a blacksmithing going on rather than a barbecue, possibly among slaves. Maybe it's just me, but "Liza," or Lizzy, or Libby, sound like slave names. Wondering if those words would fit in the A part or the B part...if it had " a little further" added, it would fit the A part...as quoted above, I think it'd have to be the B part. It's hard to find anybody that knows the words to fiddle tunes...I think probably they all had words to begin with.

May 18, 2018 - 11:07:13 AM

3733 posts since 9/26/2008

I think most people play this in standard tuning  I like GDad tuning myself.  I still question that "duet with his son" business. His son is listed as playing guitar with his dad on some cuts, but I don't see him listed anywhere as fiddling. I have the Marcus Martin CD from FRC. Same info (guitar) is listed at Digital Library of Appalachia. This tune was a VFF tune and we had some discussion then about it too.

Edited by - ChickenMan on 05/18/2018 11:08:53

May 18, 2018 - 11:12:13 AM

DougD

USA

8763 posts since 12/2/2007

RichJ - I always appreciate your reports from Connecticut because I grew up partly in the Hartford area. In fact there are a couple cuts on my music page here of my high school folk group performing on WTIC radio in 1964. In those days there was quite a country music scene in your part of the state, but that was long before weekly jam sessions and tunes like this. There was a little New Lost City Ramblers inspired revival scene in Storrs, with a trio that played at a hotdog stand weekend afternoons, but also Bluegrass there and in western RI, with strong ties to Maine. People like Fred Pike and the Tidwell brothers.
It would never occur to me to look up an American old time tune at The Session, since that site is devoted to Irish music, and I hope you weren't taken in by the tongue in cheek blarney about this one. All I saw was one person who thought it had "an English feel," and a correct attribution by the original poster to Marcus Martin of Swannanoa, NC, who AFAIK is the sole source of this tune, through a field recording by my friend Peter Hoover.
If it's Irish its black Irish, because at least the title and probably the tune come from an African American folk story and rhyme. Here's an article by one of our fellow members with the real story:
clawhammerbanjo.net/clawhammer...the-fire/
I've read that before in a book, I think "Negro Folk Rhymes" by Thomas Talley, but now I see the title in the index, but with no page number, and I can't find the story anywhere in the text. Strange.
I don't think Marcus Martin made any comment about the title, but that blacksmith business is just a Vegan hippie urban myth, made up and repeated by people who have obviously not spent any time around a forge, where there is no such tool, you heat the work, (not your tools - they'd lose their temper) in the fire, and pig iron Is not a raw material.
The "Ruby" title is just because they "new named" it for the film, which I guess is when this tune appeared on the "hit parade."
Peggy - I can play this tune (in standard G) but don't (since everybody else does) but the last time all this came up I wrote some words for it. I wrote them down, and if I can find them maybe I can make a little recording. It mostly a list of home grown things to eat and how good they are. You might enjoy it.

Edited by - DougD on 05/18/2018 11:15:49

May 18, 2018 - 11:35:43 AM

DougD

USA

8763 posts since 12/2/2007

Billy - Do you hear a second fiddle on that recording? I think I do, both from the richness of the sound, and slight differences in the melody.
About the tuning, as I said I play it in standard, but I can see why GDad might be a good choice - better than GDgd. A couple weeks ago I ran into a friend of mine who knew Red Parham, the harmonica player. Red used to play with Marcus Martin, and when he'd visit him the first thing he had to do was to get Marcus to tune up to standard so they could play together. Apparently he was always tuned down.
Here's another article with the story of the tune (gets a little raunchy at the end) oldtimeparty.wordpress.com/201...the-fire/
Who knows - maybe that's all wrong and that mythical blacksmith's tool will show up some day. I doubt it though.

May 18, 2018 - 12:12:29 PM

10070 posts since 9/23/2009

By all means, Doug...I especially like food songs...lol. Boil it down, make it round, put it on the griddle and fry it up to brown...lol...that kinda stuff. Makes me hungry. Anybody know a song about Make my Greens Good and Greasy? I can't remember much of it...but I'd like to learn it if I ever could remember how that one goes...I grow all kinds of greens...we love greens and I'd really like to sing about them while they're growing this year...lol. I gotta a really good one growning called Walking Stick Kale...now, there's a good song in the works!

May 18, 2018 - 12:27:12 PM

DougD

USA

8763 posts since 12/2/2007

Don't know any songs about greens. This is the closest I know, from Uncle Dave: youtu.be/4bkLnWN9WSA

May 18, 2018 - 3:10:25 PM

2870 posts since 6/21/2007

I've also heard this tune as "Push That Pig's Foot A Little Farther Under The Bed" I think. The story behind it was that the Sheriff was coming up the walk to ask about a neighbor's missing porker.

Of course, I could be thinking of a completely different tune, too.

May 18, 2018 - 4:05:15 PM

1321 posts since 8/27/2008

quote:
Originally posted by BanjoBrad

I've also heard this tune as "Push That Pig's Foot A Little Farther Under The Bed" I think. The story behind it was that the Sheriff was coming up the walk to ask about a neighbor's missing porker.

Of course, I could be thinking of a completely different tune, too.


I don't know if it's the tune you're thinking of, but several years ago I transcribed a tune done by John Hartford in the "Down From The Mountain" movie. That movie was filmed from a concert tour of many of the musicians whose music was in the movie "Oh Brother Where Art Thou". He tells the story about stealing a neighbor's hog and hiding it in the bed next to his wife as the constable comes up the way to ask him about it. He plays the tune and sings the words about it.

That tune is in A mixolydian. Cool tune actually, but different. On my web page under "Hogsfoot".

Edited by - abinigia on 05/18/2018 16:07:10

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