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Nov 11, 2017 - 8:46:31 AM
6 posts
Joined Aug 1, 2007

I knew this day would come, that some time it might help if I knew a little music theory. When it comes to theory a dark fog rolls over my brain ! I've played the mountain dulcimer for almost 15 yrs. and if any of you have ever played with dulcimer players know we almost always play in the key of D. I mostly us tab but I can read music I just do better with tab . My friends call me tabsavont I started playing the fiddle a few years ago and found it very easy to use dulcimer tab to play it but of course it was always in the key of D . fiddle players are very versatile and play in lots of keys , but as long as I played with dulcimer players I was ok. I can play in other keys as long it is an open position I cant transpose dulcimer tab over to a closed position but I have found that dulcimer tab works on any string you start on until you get to the E string then you have to move up the string. So here is my question I'm working on this song that I really want to learn I'm doing ok in the key of D. the first pick up note starts on the G string no 1 if I move that pick up note to the D string and start the song from there what key would I be playing in? My brain tells me that I'm. now in the key of A but but my ear wants to say I'm still in the key of D. and if I play the song starting on the D string will it harmonize with someone starting on the G string So this is my dilemma of being a dulcimer player tabsavont trying to learn fiddle. wanting to find my way through the dark fog of music theory

Nov 11, 2017 - 9:11:22 AM
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2060 posts
Joined Dec 23, 2007

What note does the tune resolve to? Most often the ending note will tell you the key.

Nov 11, 2017 - 9:14:45 AM

2060 posts
Joined Dec 23, 2007

Also, if a tune is in D and you move it up one fiddle string, it becomes a fifth higher. Key of D becomes A, G becomes D etc.

Nov 11, 2017 - 1:50:33 PM

1075 posts
Joined Dec 11, 2008

Zillions of exceptions notwithstanding, the first pick up note in folk tunes tends to be the fifth, in other words the fifth note in the scale of the key the tune is in. For example, if the first note in the song you want to play is, say, G, chances are the tune is in the key of C. If the first lead-in note is A, chances are the tune is in D. If it's D, the tune is probably in G.

Then again, sometimes a tune's intro just chugs along for a few beats in the key the tune is actually is in. Ya gotta listen! Hum it!

Nov 11, 2017 - 6:23:17 PM

Dave S

USA

703 posts
Joined Oct 18, 2009

As Aaron wrote (and as your brain told you), it will be in the key of A but the tune played there will very likely not harmonize in a pleasing way with the tune played in D. What will result is referred to around here as "Chinese" harmony.

To get a sense of that, play a simple melody on, for example, just the A string, and then try playing it double-stopped on the E string at the same position, so each note on the A string has a partner note a 5th above on the E string. Bluegrass players occasionally use this technique to get the characteristic dissonant and somewhat jarring sound of it, but it has to be used very sparingly.

Figuring out good harmony parts is not that difficult to do once you get the hang of it, but it is more complicated than just moving across one string.

Nov 12, 2017 - 9:02:16 AM

158 posts
Joined Apr 22, 2009

There are many online sources for ABC notation of fiddle tunes.
abcnotation.com/browseTunes
Most likely the tunes you want to play are available. They can be easily changed to standard notation. Transposing dulcimer notation in your head seems like a hard way to go. As far as determining what key you're in, try to superimpose an arpeggio over the last few notes. That will likely be the key you're in.

Nov 12, 2017 - 11:38:53 AM
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boxbow Players Union Member

USA

2176 posts
Joined Feb 3, 2011

If reading standard notation is as dodgy as you say, and for some it is, then you need to move right on to ear training. Learn how to send your fingers to the notes you hear in your head as they come. That is not about theory so much as it is about what sounds right. If you want to discuss it with somebody, OK, maybe a little theory would help. If you want to play the note that you hear in your head, that means developing your ear. It has long been my opinion that the chief function of music theory is so we can discuss what we play as well as actually play it. Reading standard notation is 80% of understanding most practical aspects of music theory. That's another personal opinion. When somebody in a jam circle starts rattling off 5 or 6 chords in their latest epic, I stop listening to them and listen instead to the music they play. I'm not going to parse music theory as I play any more than I'll do my tax returns.

Edited by - boxbow on 11/12/2017 11:40:18

Nov 12, 2017 - 3:53:57 PM

6 posts
Joined Aug 1, 2007

Thanks guys great advice ! I don't have a problem with numbers because it is the way I learned to play . Tab let me learn how to play the song right away and eventually to my learning notation and transporting it back into tab. I just naturally read numbers when they are there but can play written music . I don't understand how it works. I use dulcimer tab . and I know Dulcimer people are made fun of because because they almost always play exclusively in the key of D, but I was thrilled when I picked up the fiddle and starting playing Dulcimer tab starting on the D string. I could play pretty good ! and it worked no matter what string I was on but from that point I had no clue what key i'm in especially when the pick up notes started on the sting above The song I was asking about started on E - 1 on the D string and ended open A so I didn't know if the key was E or A . and because I was using D tab only 2# 's could it l be in the key of A? OH please forgive me I know some of you are scratching your head and saying WHAT!
Maybe I posted in the wrong forum should be in playing advice Beginner class !

Nov 12, 2017 - 7:35:13 PM
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1075 posts
Joined Dec 11, 2008

Glenda -- If the tune starts on the E and ends on the A, chances are better than good that the tune is in A. Tunes usually end on the "Do" of the do-re-me because it lends a finality to them. It should be said, though, that a few old time tunes end on the fifth note of the scale not the first. It's something that gives a tune a pleasing, wistful openendedness. In any case, practice the tune. Get good with it. Eventually, with luck, the melody will make sense. You'll understand it and thus realize what the key is.

Nov 12, 2017 - 8:02:04 PM
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2060 posts
Joined Dec 23, 2007

Oftentimes an instrument and its layout will distract us from what is really going on with the music. The number of sharps or flats don't define theory, they are merely a manifestation of what is going on with the music. The music is the music, and written stuff is just a representation. As somebody once said, 'Writing about music is like dancing about architecture'.

As I mentioned in my first post, if you want to know what key the tune is in, you need to figure out what note your tune resolves to. If your ear tells you the tune wants to end on D, well, it's a D tune. The tune may actually end on another note, but the note that your ear wants to end the tune with is the one that matters. Most tunes beg to resolve to a specific note, and that's the clue to unlocking the tune.

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