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NCnotes - Posted - 10/02/2023: 08:35:09
(photo attached)
What has happened to the fingerboard of this fiddle, and shouldn't it be repaired?
Does this affect the playing?
I've never seen one like this...aren't they supposed to be solid ebony?
( Mine gets grooves in it, but it doesn't lose its color, and I've actually never seen one that got "faded" like this, even on old violins)
Edited by - NCnotes on 10/02/2023 08:37:26
gapbob - Posted - 10/02/2023: 08:51:06
Not ebony.
Erockin - Posted - 10/02/2023: 08:52:35
Here was my first one when it came home. My buddy painted it but it's showing wear again...lol
DougD - Posted - 10/02/2023: 09:11:19
Cheaper violins sometimes had fittings (fingerboards, pegs, tailpieces) made of some light wood, usually I think maple, that was dyed, and the dye fades over time. This is fairly common on old trade fiddles. Real ebony is expensive, and now quite scarce, so pieces that are not pure black are sometimes used, and they are also dyed. That's not what's in your photo though.
pete_fiddle - Posted - 10/02/2023: 09:17:08
Yeah, but this fiddle with a faded fake ebony fingerboard sounds better than most fiddles that do have real ebony fingerboards...Because it belongs to Ian Walsh...i think
Edited by - pete_fiddle on 10/02/2023 09:22:08
RichJ - Posted - 10/02/2023: 09:56:06
Maybe not real ebony but I consider that kind of fingerboard fading an indication the fiddle was played a lot and therefore likely one with pretty good tone. But then I guess I've always liked beat up old fiddles with character
The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 10/02/2023: 10:08:11
In the past, fingerboards were made of softer woods like pine or pear wood and either veneered with ebony or simply painted or stained black. The veneered fingerboard was a common method of construction in the baroque era, but the painted fingerboards were generally put on the cheapest Markneukirchen and Mirecourt violins. They’re also found commonly on Nippon violins. The cheap fingerboards were made this way to cut corners and lower production costs. Today, there are still some very cheap Chinese violins that are made with painted fingerboards, but this is only at the very bottom of the line.
As far as functionality, the fingerboard is not in danger if the finish wears off, even though it looks hideous. Because the wood is softer than ebony, it will wear down quicker and will need planing more frequently. Some makers have tried using softer woods and sealing the outer surface with an epoxy resin, but that makes working with it a lot less friendly later on. Soft wood fingerboards are less structurally stable due to their lower density, so the chance of warpage is somewhat higher. However, as long as the curvature and scoop are alright and the board hasn’t warped, it’s usable. When this fingerboard becomes unusable, a new one should be made. In addition to being an improvement in material, it will likely be good for the sound of the instrument.
Edited by - The Violin Beautiful on 10/02/2023 10:09:40
pete_fiddle - Posted - 10/02/2023: 10:42:03
yeah, iv'e got a french fiddle (1890's-ish) that has an ebony fboard that has probably been planed down a couple of times and now doesn't have enough meat on it for another planing and also has finger dimples in it (enough to make a buzz). Will need a new f/boaord in the near future.
None of the above are apparent in the fiddle pictured in the original post although the finish has worn off..... I wonder if ebony is as durable as is reported, as opposed to hard maple etc?
DougD - Posted - 10/02/2023: 11:46:24
Pete, hard maple has a Janka hardness of about 1400 lbs, while ebony is 3000 lbs or more, depending on the species.
I have a 1908 Vega banjo, which was a high quality instrument then and now. Some have ebony fingerboards, while others are dyed (maple I think). Mine appears to be maple, but shows no serious wear after more than 100 years. It does fade though, and I have to dye it every once in a great while. I use Fiebings leather dye, because its easy to get, although India ink works in a pinch.
I also have a mid 19th century German violin of good quality that has the type of veneered construction that Rich described. I've never played this instrument much, but I recently noticed a gap opening up berween the neck and fingerboard, which should be addressed. Unfortunately my long time luthier died a few years ago, so I'm going to have to take a closer look at this myself.
Edited by - DougD on 10/02/2023 11:50:27
pete_fiddle - Posted - 10/02/2023: 12:15:33
yeah, i get the janka hardness thing. (Pressing a ball into the wood). But have you ever sanded or scraped ebony? it is really easy to work . it's a bit "waxy" whereas Beech, maple, birch etc, seem just as hard to work, if not harder to me.
NCnotes - Posted - 10/02/2023: 13:09:50
Thanks for all the info, and satisfying my curiosity!
I think I must have the ebony type...I have been playing this violin since I was 9 years old and it has never shown the slightest color change, but it did get some deep string grooves and wearing down of the surface (luthier replaned last year). That's why I got puzzled by this fingerboard (yes Pete, what an eye! It IS Ian Walsh's fiddle and he sounds amazing, so obviously his fingerboard is not holding him back!! :-)
NCnotes - Posted - 10/02/2023: 13:11:23
quote:
Originally posted by Erockin
Here was my first one when it came home. My buddy painted it but it's showing wear again...lol
Good sign! You must be playing a lot! :-)
DougD - Posted - 10/02/2023: 14:18:43
Pete - I'm not a woodworker, except for small parts of musical instruments, like nuts, saddles and bridges, etc. But I know what you mean about ebony - it seems easy to work, and maybe "waxy" is a better description than "oily," which it shares somewhat with rosewood, making them both good choices for fingerboards - they just feel good. I have two nice ukuleles and a very old banjo, all of which have nice mahogany necks, but rosewood fingerboards.
I would think the janka hardness rating would be a pretty good predicter of fingerboard wear from strings or fingers, which seem like the same thing, on a much smaller scale.
carlb - Posted - 10/03/2023: 06:07:59
I had a fiddle with a dyed pear wood fingerboard. It had grooves in it from playing. One day when I looked at it, there was a white spot at the bottom of one of the grooves. Immediately had the fingerboard replaced by a luthier. Now the fiddle has an ebony fingerboard.
The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 10/03/2023: 10:31:43
Maple is a great tonewood and certain varieties of it can be quite hard, but maple isn’t as dimensionally stable as ebony. A good fingerboard does a lot to stabilize the neck, which would be much more prone to warpage without something harder to keep it in line. The grain in maple is more irregular, which makes it trickier to shape into the complex set of curves that a proper fingerboard requires while keeping a perfectly smooth surface.
Really high quality ebony is not so waxy and resembles coal. When it’s cut properly, the wood works well under sharp tools without tear out.
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