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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Cumberland Gap...with what groundhogs call Cumberland Gap tuning


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/57949

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 05/17/2023:  12:57:33


Well at some point in time somewhere on this here forum, there was talk of nobody ever hearing of this called Cumberland Gap tuning 'cept for me...lol...ok, not sure where or when I heard it, but since I've played I have called it Cumberland Gap tuning, and I've played Cumberland Gap in the tuning...so...ADAD is what I have known as Cumberland Gap tuning...it could be true...I lived very close to Cumberland Gap for decades...which means nothing, really...lol...but could be that's where I heard it called that? Although I was too poor to own fiddles or play fiddles...well but anyway...I've played Cumberland Gap in ADAD, or sometimes C-Gap (as groundhogs call it) tuning down a step...GCGC...I really meant to play it in GCGC this time because the ADAD can sound shrill...however...as a groundhog with a point...I wanted to illustrate that somebody on this earth does in fact play Cumberland Gap in what a groundhog calls Cumberland Gap tuning...rightly or wrongly. So here we go...I like Cumberland Gap as a slow tune, mainly...another groundhog thing that those with no groundhog tendencies might find disturbing...lol...sorry...uh, but anyway...I just think of the times on a sunny day, when my family and I ate a sandwich in all three states...up on the high ridge and watching the birds beneath us...looking out as far as anybody could see...and it makes me feel like a slow tune is in order for my thoughts of Cumberland Gap...so here she goes...fiddle ADAD, banjo double C and capoed up to D. One guitar strummin along in its own sunny afternoon lazy way. Hope everybody is having a great day.

youtu.be/uLue_IXhsAc

DougD - Posted - 05/17/2023:  14:14:47


I had a long term romance with a girl from Lee county, VA. near Cumberland Gap. She grew up in Ewing and her family had a store in Rose Hill. We spent a lot of time exploring the area and I learned some of the history (her family had lived there since the early days). This was long before the tunnel was built. We played at a welcoming cookout for the new park superintendent and I don't remember if we played "Cumberland Gap," but if we did it probably would have been in G, which is the usual key for those that live above ground. Your recording might be a first in the history of recorded sound!!
PS - I just checked in the "Hamblen Collection," which is a collection of tunes supposedly played in that area in the 19th century, to see if this tune in there, but its not, which is kind of surprising.


Edited by - DougD on 05/17/2023 14:22:38

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 05/17/2023:  14:55:30


G is a popular key all around, i think. In places where I lived C seemed to be the key for lots of things. Anyway, yeah my Cumberland Gap days were long, long before that tunnel was built...we've only been back once since the tunnel. Of course being an old groundhog set in her ways...I do not like that tunnel...lol...but they didn't ask me before they built it...so I guess it stays...lol.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 05/17/2023:  15:13:05


I always wondered where the third part came from in that D version.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 05/17/2023:  16:11:09


I don't know where that 3rd part comes from...i've heard the 3rd part played way different than that, but wherever it comes from, I just like this 3rd part better...at least today I do...lol...and other days too...but I might change my mind later.

DougD - Posted - 05/17/2023:  16:34:44


"I always wondered where that third part came from"
Probably the hippies. When they got hold of this music a lot of things changed.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 05/17/2023:  16:54:05


what I'm remembering was before the time of hippies...at least I think so...not sure how old i was when hippies became a thing.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 05/17/2023:  16:55:24


although it could be more modern than the other two parts, I'll admit...so maybe the early hippies with gray hair and scrubby gray stubble, with tobacco juice stains on their chins...possibly. Or the other kind...the early flower children...but I don't think so, really...i can't claim to actually know, though.


Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 05/17/2023 16:56:20

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 05/17/2023:  20:24:27


Hey well Doug I sure got frustrated tonight...ran down to record something else while I was in that hippie tuning...lol...another good ol' song...rushed through it because I had no time...but just wanted to play someting while I was tuned to ADAD...didn't have time to put the fiddle on...but I always finish up a recording in one sitting if possible, otherwise my train of thought is different if I get away from it, and I'm just obsessed with recording music...anyhow...then rushed through bare bones banjo and guitar so I could get back to working on stuff I gotta do...only to sit and wait for hours for youtube to get done processing the doggone video...finally...it's late, so I give up. it's probably our lousy internet connection...although the way things go around here I'd just be better off if I quit trying to record music... So I guess I ain't no good at hippie stuff. Maybe youtube knows that and it's refusing to process anything else meant for my Cumberland Gap tuning...lol.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 05/18/2023:  03:57:13


Well got up this morning and had to try another time to get youtube to take the next ADAD tune, which has no fiddle...it's pretty sketchy...didn't have time to play anyway and tried to squish it in between a lot of activity I needed to be doing...which is just never a good idea...so this one will not go into my playlist...I'll put it into backup tracks...I've got those playlists somewhere on my channel...but have neglected them mainly...lol...anyway...as I was saying last night...this was another one that has worked out really well for me in my few amateur years of messin' with fiddle in ADAD...but didn't have time to put the fiddle on there...didn't have time to do a good job playing...but the passion to play keeps me from doing things I need to be doing...etc. etc. etc. Honestly, I'd be better off if I didn't play at all...lol...my life would be easier.  But here she goes...not too good...forced into what time I could squish out.  Here's the one that has caused quite a bit of frustration...lol youtu.be/sVUrhc_cqTw


Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 05/18/2023 03:58:43

loy - Posted - 05/18/2023:  04:26:14


Well I don’t care much about what tuning it is when it sounds that good in that nice n easy pace! Enjoyed it immensely Peggy!

DougD - Posted - 05/18/2023:  04:40:57


Peggy, as far as ADAD tuning, I have "Wayfaring Stranger" on my music page here that was arranged just for you. You had asked if anybody played a version of that song with modal type drones. I didn't, but thought it might be fun to try. I couldn't sing it in A or G, so i tried ADAD, which sort of worked. I put "Ways of the World" at the end just to liven things up, although Luther Strong played it with a low D on the 4th string.
The Slippery Hill website has a search function, and if you don't enter a term it shows everything on the site. There are almost 5000 tunes in standard tuning, and only 5 in ADAD, one of which is Paul Kirk playing something that his source didn't really play that way. So really only 4, none of them "Cumberland Gap." Apparently a very uncommon tuning, although I can see it would work for some D tunes - it just gives up some high notes on the top string without adding much. Might as well use ADAE, since you don't really hear the open top string much anyway.
As far as "Cumberland Gap," have you ever heard Morgan Sexton sing it? I think its my favorite version youtu.be/EBS-wpClhtI Lee played a similar version which is also on YouTube, so I know how the banjo is tuned. I don't know if that's "Cumberland Gap" tuning, but its in F and Morgan played several old songs that way. I went to visit Lee once and he said "Bet you've never heard 'Wildwood Flower' in F", and proceeded to play it in that tuning - he'd just worked it out. Once we were warming up before a show and he was playing "Cumberland Gap" and I thought I'd try it on the fiddle. Its has odd timing, but I almost had it, but we had to start playing (8 AM breakfast music at the Ford Foundation!) and I never got back to it. It would work though.

carlb - Posted - 05/18/2023:  04:57:12


I've only heard of "Cumberland Gap Tuning" as a reference to the tuning Kyle Creed played the tune on the banjo (f#BEAD). I've never heard a fiddle tuning named "Cumberland Gap Tuning".

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 05/18/2023:  05:06:16


Thanks Loy...drinking one more cup of coffee...lol. Have a great day.



Thanks, Doug...Really, though, I'm not much of a musicologist really...so many people if they find out I enjoy playing, they ask if I know this guy, that guy, this band, that band...the original version of this tune, that tune...I'm just not interested. I don't have a device to listen to music...I've never had listening devices...I've never gone to concerts...it's just exposure I go by. I just hear things here and there throughout my whole life and play from my memory once it pops into my brain and I get enough time to mess with it...or things I've played with others in the past. I like playing more than listening or studying how it's supposed to be done...I just like to play...my own way. If others like it...I'm very happy. If they don't...I'm sorry bout that, but it's not sorry enough to stop me from doing my own thing. But life and time has made music something that's just been difficult for me to be able to do...always a struggle. I've had many obstacles keeping me from spending the time I'd love to with it. Music and life don't match up for me at all...never have. Still...it haunts me all the time. But no...I mean...I've heard old stuff a lot but never made enough mental notes about how I should tune or play...don't know where or when I heard ADAD...but I do love it for certain tunes, at certain times...that about sums it all up. Where or when I heard about Cumberland Gap tuning...I don't know...it's not a historical thing for me...it's a passion i love to do, and have very limited opportunity to even play it on the front porch...lol...it's just the irony of my world. Anyway...that's it...for me, it works for Cumberland Gap...one day...other days...something else works...I don't care which or when...it just works for me when it works for me, when I can do it.



Ok...one edit...shouldn't use the word, never.  I can count on one hand the concerts I've been to...Doc Watson, Micheal Cleveland when he came to the local library to play...lol...weirdly enough but he was great...then in college they had regular concerts I attended because they were free and there was nothing else to do...John Hartford was one of those...but a lot of the McClain Family, Jean Ritchie...I.D. Stamper...a few others like that and a lot of unknowns.  Other than that...I haven't seeked out concerts or listening devices or any of that.  People always try to discuss that with me, but I really know nothing about it...a lot of music I have packed away in my brain either came from passively hearing street festivals, church stuff, or music in a store...lol...that's about it.  I just love to play...and life doesn't love for me to get the chances to do it much...always squishing in my time and neglecting other things.


Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 05/18/2023 05:10:27

Erockin - Posted - 05/18/2023:  05:37:28


So good! I connected to this in a few ways this morning...

My daughter (17) stressed she wanted to learn claw hammer banjo so I'm looking into a few different options. She likes good music and already knows theory from School band and plays the Yuke and Guitar so she's already ahead. Pretty excited for her and after hearing this, I hope we can duet some day like this recording.

I haven't dabbled into cross tuning yet because I'm scared I won't be able to get back to standard tuning...lol. But this is inspiring. Thanks for posting content!

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 05/18/2023:  06:20:43


When I first picked up a fiddle, it was in GDGD, and for a while I thought that was the basic tuning...then I started getting into GDAE, thinking I finally knew how to do things "right," lol, and always wwith that tendency to not want to be doing things wrong...lol. Then I got freaked out about any cross tunings for a while...this was very early in my fiddling ... not really so long ago...but thinking cross tunings would get me confused or something from the fragile point where I had gotten to in my fiddling journey...then I finally got back into cross tunings, I gotta say with some help and encouragement from some members here, no longer with us...big one that stands out in my mind is FiddlePogo. It's weird, because I started out on guitar, had heard of cross tunings on guitar i.e., open or alternate tunings, but never was curious enough to try that much, because of my fascination with all the secrets and treasures hidden within guitar standard tuning... similar with banjo...not muc h into different tunings because I liked what i could do without that. I got into that thinking with fiddle once I started tuning to GDAE, but never found the same great things I'd found decades earlier on the guitar tuning...they are probably in there somewhere...lol...I was too old to discover them once I started fiddling, I guess. Anyway, my discoveries in cross tunings on the fiddle have been a lot different for me than with guitar standard tuning...with guitar standard tuning, there's a lot of cool stuff within the arrangement of the strings...with fiddle cross tuning, it's the opposite, at least for me in my view...it's a lot of cool WAYS to play stuff...kinda like guitar is an automatic transmission on a big fancy car, and fiddle cross tunings are stick shift on a big ol' work truck...lol...sorta. Lousy analogy but it's all I can think of without going into a War and Peace style novel about it all...lol. It's a fun thing though.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 05/18/2023:  16:01:33


quote:

Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

...only to sit and wait for hours for youtube to get done processing the doggone video...finally...it's late, so I give up. it's probably our lousy internet connection...although the way things go around here I'd just be better off if I quit trying to record music...






Can check your settings; to reduce the file size, esp the video part can take up a lot of bandwidth.



Of course, since it's really just audio... there's always option not to do it as youtube video... just post audio; esp as mp3 format is much much faster. Could post of FHO, as well as places like Sound Cloud, BandLab, or BandCamp.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 05/18/2023:  19:47:44


Well we've had pretty lousy internet service around here. I just like having the youtube channel...but sometimes it just goes very slow or just completely out...plus it just added to my frustrations that day...lol...just one thing after another sometimes, ya know.

NCnotes - Posted - 05/19/2023:  14:22:16


This is one of the few OT tunes that I know/play, always liked it a lot!



I like this laid-back version, "groundhog style" :-)

Good pluckin' too!


Edited by - NCnotes on 05/19/2023 14:22:38

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 05/19/2023:  18:53:33


Thanks, NC. I'd love to hear you play it!

Quincy - Posted - 06/05/2023:  03:35:03


I love it. You have such a great feeling for rhythm and sound.

bsed55 - Posted - 06/05/2023:  18:29:52


quote:

Originally posted by DougD

I had a long term romance with a girl from Lee county, VA. near Cumberland Gap. She grew up in Ewing and her family had a store in Rose Hill. We spent a lot of time exploring the area and I learned some of the history (her family had lived there since the early days). This was long before the tunnel was built. We played at a welcoming cookout for the new park superintendent and I don't remember if we played "Cumberland Gap," but if we did it probably would have been in G, which is the usual key for those that live above ground. Your recording might be a first in the history of recorded sound!!

PS - I just checked in the "Hamblen Collection," which is a collection of tunes supposedly played in that area in the 19th century, to see if this tune in there, but its not, which is kind of surprising.






I thought the Hamblen collection was from Indiana. My memory banks say that Paul Tyler rediscovered it.

DougD - Posted - 06/05/2023:  18:41:15


It was compiled in Indiana by the descendents of a fiddler born near Cumberland Gap in 1809. You can read more here, although its a little awkward to download one page at a time: chriswig.com/hamblen.html

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