groundhogpeggy - Posted - 11/26/2022:  12:52:43

Update...this is West Fork Gals...Soapsuds O'er the Fence is linked on down, with the official groundhog explanation as to how this crazy mixup happened to my poor little groundhog mind...lol. 

Well at least this MIGHT be Soapsuds over the Fence...I'm really not sure. But whenever I hear somebody talk about Soapsuds under or over or around or about the Fence...this one here pops into my mind. If I'm wrong please correct me on that title.



I'm in D, standard tuning on fiddle.



youtu.be/EGkPn7z6eZ4

Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 11/27/2022 08:37:27

bubbaschnell - Posted - 11/26/2022:  16:07:35

Well, it's not the tune I was thinking of (my mind goes to something from the Durang's Hornpipe family of tunes) but it's really nicely played and it's got a great lilt to it. Very cool.

bubbaschnell - Posted - 11/26/2022:  16:18:09

That Soapsuds Over the Fence from James Bryan (from his neighbor, Mack Blaylock) and Mose Coffman also played, is a more crooked version of Durang's. I never really realized it until I heard a recording of the Missouri fiddler, Lee Stoneking playing it, same tune (called Durangs without the crookedness). You just never know, do you?

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 11/26/2022:  17:41:49

Yeah, I think that's the one Rich was thinking of...don't know where this one I played came from, but in my mind it's what I think of when someone says Soapsuds O'er the Fence. Who knows? Lol...OT tunes all seem to be connected somehow. Thanks for listening, Bill, and I sure appreciate your input and comments!

fiddlenerd - Posted - 11/26/2022:  19:41:00

Soap Suds is a floater name that I've heard stuck to a handful of tunes. Peggy's tune often goes by West Fork Girls.

DougD - Posted - 11/26/2022:  19:59:01

Yes, that's the tune I know as "West Fork Girls," from West Virginia, although I probably learned it from the Fuzzy Mountain folks. Its in Miles Krassen's book "Appalachian Fiddle" and I've never heard it called anything else. Can't say that I hear much of "Durang's" in there though, but maybe that's not what Bill meant.

Edited by - DougD on 11/26/2022 20:06:21

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 11/27/2022:  04:19:40

Oh crap...yeah that's West Fork Gals...lol....why on earth I thought Soapsuds...isn't there another Saopsuds that sounds amazingly similar???? I had a disturbing feeling that something was wrong with that.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 11/27/2022:  04:20:49

Thanks, I'm gonna have to correct the title and hunt deeper into my soul for whatever I'm thinking of soapsuds over the fence...but it's different than the one I've heard on youtubes.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 11/27/2022:  04:25:34

Ok I found the one I'd found the other day that sounds CLOSER to what I was thinking...then of course was very busy with stuff and decided to try playing it when I got the time but the WEst Fork Gals moved in on me before I got to the Presonus...this ain't exactly it, but close to what I think of as Soapsuds over the FEnce.... youtu.be/vZEF78Kj3CQ

Folks,this is what happens when you never play except to record old scratchy wornout ideas running around through your mind...lol. And I think it might be getting harder and harder to find the time to play around here...so watch for more bungles coming from ghpeggy soon...lol. Thanks for the correction...gotta keep this stuff right.

DougD - Posted - 11/27/2022:  06:45:51

That tune is variant of "Too Young to Marry," "My Love is But a Lassie Yet," etc., with a "floating" title, as fiddlenerd mentioned. On this page ibiblio.org/fiddlers/SO_SOR.htm the Fiddlers Companion mentions three tunes with the "Soapsuds" title: #1 is the James Bryan tune Bill mentioned, which Lyman Enloe apparently also played; #2 is a G tune from KY fiddler Jimmy Wheeler, and #3 is the "Too Young to Marry" family like your last link.

Edited by - DougD on 11/27/2022 06:56:41

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 11/27/2022:  06:52:06

It's very close to what I've heard as Soapsuds over the Fence, but I'm going back decades on a worn out brain here...lol. Decades where I wasn't paying attention and had no fiddle to learn or play.

DougD - Posted - 11/27/2022:  07:03:53

Tommy Jackson recorded that tune as "Lead Out," (as in "First couple lead out" I suppose) which is how a lot of people learned it: youtu.be/Y6TydX0YW-U I think its originally Scottish though.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 11/27/2022:  08:29:33

To avoid spreading wrong info...lol...which I guess I've already done, HERE is the tune I started thinking in my head when Rich brought up Soapsuds, etc. I was busy and thinking it all day, waiting to get a chance to try to get through it on a recording, but somehow it morphed on me into West Fork Gals...I kept thinking when I was playing it something is just wrong here...yeah...lol...wrong tune. So, whatever anybody else calls this one, it's the one I think of as Soapsuds over the Fence...although I have never played it. Grappling about for notes here on this so I'm considering it just a correction so I'm not telling anybody wrong stuff...so here's what I meant: youtu.be/7hYTSARXovQ

Sorry about that...and thanks again for the correction....I knew something seemed wrong...lol.

RichJ - Posted - 11/27/2022:  12:50:25

quote:

---

Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

To avoid spreading wrong info...lol...which I guess I've already done, HERE is the tune I started thinking in my head when Rich brought up Soapsuds, etc. I was busy and thinking it all day, waiting to get a chance to try to get through it on a recording, but somehow it morphed on me into West Fork Gals...I kept thinking when I was playing it something is just wrong here...yeah...lol...wrong tune. So, whatever anybody else calls this one, it's the one I think of as Soapsuds over the Fence...although I have never played it. Grappling about for notes here on this so I'm considering it just a correction so I'm not telling anybody wrong stuff...so here's what I meant: youtu.be/7hYTSARXovQ



Sorry about that...and thanks again for the correction....I knew something seemed wrong...lol.

---

Oh Dear, I hope my reputation as a PTS (professional tune suggester) hasn't been damaged in this Kerfuffle. 

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 11/27/2022:  18:02:56

Well you could consider going on strike and see if you could get union protection or something...lol.

loy - Posted - 11/28/2022:  05:39:07

Well heck, soapsuds over around under or through the fence don’t matter to me, that’s some mighty good fiddlin Peggy. Sure enjoyed it! Have a great day!

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 11/28/2022:  08:33:04

Lol…a lot of confusion I’ve caused, but I did enjoy the fiddling, whatever it was. Thanks for listening and the kind comments, Loy.

RichJ - Posted - 11/29/2022:  08:15:43

To avoid confusion in the future I propose we just play fiddle tunes and NEVER name em'.

DougD - Posted - 11/29/2022:  08:57:54

Peggy, the tune you're playing is the one I know as "Too Young to Marry." Here's an early recording by Charlie Poole and the North Carolina Ramblers, with I guess Posey Rorrer on fiddle: youtu.be/Oryv6iZZ2fs I've never heard it called anything else, except "Lead Out" from the Tommy Jackson recording. If you look on YouTube you can find Scots pipers and pipe bands playing it, but a little different, and I think it has words from Robert Burns.
So Rich - is that the tune you were thinking of? I grew up in Hartford, and one of the first fiddlers I played with in the 1960's was Bill Welling, from Simsbury. In 1976 he published a handwritten book of 55 tunes called "Welling's Hartford Tunebook," and this one is in there. Well worth owning if you can find a used copy at a reasonable price.

RichJ - Posted - 11/29/2022:  09:50:18

quote:

---

Originally posted by DougD

So Rich - is that the tune you were thinking of? I grew up in Hartford, and one of the first fiddlers I played with in the 1960's was Bill Welling, from Simsbury. In 1976 he published a handwritten book of 55 tunes called "Welling's Hartford Tunebook," and this one is in there. Well worth owning if you can find a used copy at a reasonable price.

---

Hi Doug - No, the tune that got all this started was called Soapsuds Over the Fence and played by Eric Zorn and son on YT. youtube.com/watch?v=lE79MxrxJBU There are a couple of other folks who play it there as well. Some one else (you?) mentioned the similarity of it to Durang's Hornpipe, but i'm still "on the fence" on that one. lol I also grew up in Hartford but never got serious with a fiddle until after retirement so never knew any of the CT fiddler's in the 1960-70s. I did find a copy of Welling's book for sale on line ($303.30 - yikes!). Interestingly though there was a photo of the index page showing some tune titles in the book. One was called Frank Moon's Jig. I happen to know quite a bit about Mr. Frank Moon. He was a fantastic fiddler who played in a fiddle club called The Old Fiddler's Club of Rhode Island. The club has been more or less active in the Southern New England region for around 90 years. There's a lot mentioned about him and OFCRI on the club's website which I currently manage, but no longer remain an active member. oldfiddlersclubri.com/

Edited by - RichJ on 11/29/2022 09:53:04

DougD - Posted - 11/29/2022:  10:24:40

OK, that's the James Bryan tune that bubbaschnell mentioned earlier in thread. Here he is playing it: youtu.be/YJg5_03ae4k He apparently learned it from a neighbor, and I think its on his album "Lookout Blues." I definitely hear "Durang's Hornpipe" in there, which is a very specific tune that's gone through a lot of variations. There used to be a historical society page about John Durang that included notation of the tune as written for him by one "Hoffmaster, a German dwarf" who lived in NYC, but I couldn't find it the other day.

As far as the "Hartford Tunebook," I saw that listing too! Look on Amazon - there are a couple for as little as $20:
amazon.com/Wellings-Hartford-T...ks&sr=1-5

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 11/29/2022:  12:10:21

Hey...i'm ok with calling the first one i played West Fork Gals...but i'm stubbornly calling the second one i played the soapsuds, wherever they are going, over the fence, under the fence, into the railroad ditch like where we used to throw them...wherever...that's my final offer...lol. But it's been a fun analysis of fiddle tunes.

RichJ - Posted - 11/29/2022:  12:21:23

quote:

---

Originally posted by DougD

OK, that's the James Bryan tune that bubbaschnell mentioned earlier in thread. Here he is playing it: youtu.be/YJg5_03ae4k He apparently learned it from a neighbor, and I think its on his album "Lookout Blues." I definitely hear "Durang's Hornpipe" in there, which is a very specific tune that's gone through a lot of variations. There used to be a historical society page about John Durang that included notation of the tune as written for him by one "Hoffmaster, a German dwarf" who lived in NYC, but I couldn't find it the other day.



As far as the "Hartford Tunebook," I saw that listing too! Look on Amazon - there are a couple for as little as $20:

amazon.com/Wellings-Hartford-T...ks&sr=1-5

---

Doug - Actually I saw the James Bryan rendition first and liked the tune even before I saw the one the Zoern's did I just love watching the fluid like motion of James' wrist while he plays that tune. Lots of feeling in there too. Also, thanks for the Amazon ref on that Wellings book.