Erockin - Posted - 09/12/2022:  05:27:23

Thanks again for all the positive advice and feedback on my latest fiddle purchase!

I'm grateful I found this website too. Yesterday, I dropped it off to have it set up. Strings, Pegs, Bow Re-hair etc...



Now I am in the market for a chin and shoulder rest. From a short review of my Google search, I see that

there are a lot of reasonable product/prices out there to pick from. However I know nothing about these items,

I was curious on what you think I should get? For instance, I found a Dresden Chinrest for $19 from the Fiddle Shop??

Seemed like the correct route. But the shoulder rest seems like there are a lot of options. Any input would be appreciated!!



Please forgive me if there is endless info on this topic here. It's been a while since I used a forum.

Edited by - Erockin on 09/12/2022 05:40:33

DougD - Posted - 09/12/2022:  06:18:02

Most luthiers stock some chinrests, so I'd start there when you pick up your instrument. Maybe give them some advance warning and at least ask for advice. The problem with buying online is you can't try the fit, and there are a lot of different models.
Shoulder rests are a much more recent invention (later 20th century) and some people use them, many don't. I think I'd try playing without one first, and see if you feel you need one. Lots of options out there, which I don't know much about.

Erockin - Posted - 09/12/2022:  06:27:27

quote:

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Originally posted by DougD

Most luthiers stock some chinrests, so I'd start there when you pick up your instrument. Maybe give them some advance warning and at least ask for advice. The problem with buying online is you can't try the fit, and there are a lot of different models.

Shoulder rests are a much more recent invention (later 20th century) and some people use them, many don't. I think I'd try playing without one first, and see if you feel you need one. Lots of options out there, which I don't know much about.

---

Thanks, Doug. Good idea about the chinrest. The fiddle/violin always seemed awkward to hold. I've watched a ton of beginner and moderate level lessons so far. The shoulder rests aren't all that expensive so maybe when I pick it up from him, he'll have one for me to try!?

I asked him as I left his farm yesterday, "are you going to make me play this when I pick it up??" hahaha. Needless to say, I'm pretty excited to get started!

Swing - Posted - 09/12/2022:  06:45:01

Doug gives sound advise regarding the chin rest.... a good luthier will have several types on hand and can offer suggestions... As far as shoulder rests go... if you have a fiddle friend see if you can try theirs and if it fits well get one, if not it hasn't cost you anything to try it... the Kun basic should rest is not a bad place to start...

Play Happy

Swing

NCnotes - Posted - 09/12/2022:  08:45:43

Yep I would wander into a music store that sells/sets up violins, with my violin, and just try a few different models of shoulder rests to see what feels comfortable (I have a Kun, as Swing mentioned).

It's not totally necessary, I see many fiddlers playing without them! That's because fiddlers can get away with different ways to hold the neck...classical players need to hold violin using neck/shoulder so that the left hand can be free to quickly shift positions up and down the neck. Since fiddlers often don't need so much fast changing of positions (usually play in first position) they are free to hold fiddle differently...

so it's up to you...(unless you want to become a classical violinist :-)

Erockin - Posted - 09/12/2022:  09:09:42

quote:

---

Originally posted by NCnotes

Yep I would wander into a music store that sells/sets up violins, with my violin, and just try a few different models of shoulder rests to see what feels comfortable (I have a Kun, as Swing mentioned).



It's not totally necessary, I see many fiddlers playing without them! That's because fiddlers can get away with different ways to hold the neck...classical players need to hold violin using neck/shoulder so that the left hand can be free to quickly shift positions up and down the neck. Since fiddlers often don't need so much fast changing of positions (usually play in first position) they are free to hold fiddle differently...



so it's up to you...(unless you want to become a classical violinist :-)

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I figure that an affordable shoulder rest ain't gonna hurt the bank too much. The very few times someone actually allowed me to hold their violin, it felt very strange. I hope my posts don't become redundant...lol. I drink a lot of coffee from 6am-10am meanwhile listening to as much fiddle and violin videos as I can. This new endeavor will promote my scale practice for my mandolin as well. I've already made some new theory connections since diving into the violin. 

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 09/12/2022:  21:20:07

Here are a couple thoughts:



1) When you’re new to playing, it takes a while to become comfortable holding the instrument, even with good posture; over time you become used to holding the instrument and it gradually feels natural to play. Beginners often make the mistake of focusing too much on comfort and not on good posture, something that only does more damage in the end. This is where a teacher can make all the difference as you start by checking your posture and refining it so you’re getting the most out of your playing.



2) Shoulder rests exist to help brace the instrument against the body and to add a feeling of greater security to the hold. As such, the shoulder rest is an accessory to the instrument, whereas the chinrest is a part of it. It’s good to find a chinrest model that allows one to hold the instrument without having to rely on the hand too much while conforming reasonably well to the jaw line. The Guarneri model is what works for the majority of violinists, but some swear by other models. Some players tend to clamp straight down with the chin while others tend to use more of the jawbone and tilt the head to the side. If you can hold the instrument securely with the chin and collarbone, the shoulder rest is not needed. As a luthier, I prefer center mounted rests for the health of the instruments and for the acoustic benefits. 

Edited by - The Violin Beautiful on 09/12/2022 21:23:14

Erockin - Posted - 09/13/2022:  04:30:27

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

Here are a couple thoughts:



1) When you’re new to playing, it takes a while to become comfortable holding the instrument, even with good posture; over time you become used to holding the instrument and it gradually feels natural to play. Beginners often make the mistake of focusing too much on comfort and not on good posture, something that only does more damage in the end. This is where a teacher can make all the difference as you start by checking your posture and refining it so you’re getting the most out of your playing.



2) Shoulder rests exist to help brace the instrument against the body and to add a feeling of greater security to the hold. As such, the shoulder rest is an accessory to the instrument, whereas the chinrest is a part of it. It’s good to find a chinrest model that allows one to hold the instrument without having to rely on the hand too much while conforming reasonably well to the jaw line. The Guarneri model is what works for the majority of violinists, but some swear by other models. Some players tend to clamp straight down with the chin while others tend to use more of the jawbone and tilt the head to the side. If you can hold the instrument securely with the chin and collarbone, the shoulder rest is not needed. As a luthier, I prefer center mounted rests for the health of the instruments and for the acoustic benefits. 

---

Rich, I appreciate the input and advice. It's very much appreciated! 

I've never been so excited about an instrument and lord knows I've had a few..lol Everyone seems to hold it a different way. The few times I have, it's felt REALLY strange like "how do they do this??" so understanding posture is key, Not just with music but in life as well. Alexandria VA? I've played a lot of shows around the DC Baltimore area. I haven't been to Appalachian Bluegrass in Canton for years but that used to be one of my favorite stops. Again, thanks for your input!

rosinhead - Posted - 09/13/2022:  05:33:03

I played for over ten years without one, but over the last couple of years have started using one more often than not. At this point it just feels better. I angle the fiddle a little more in front of my body vs. to the side and in doing that use less chin/jaw to hold the fiddle. Basically my upper chest and left arm doing most of the support. The shoulder rest allows a sturdier feel for me and a more relaxed left hand. There are lots of good ones out there and sampling them is always going to be the best option. IMO, Kun seems to be the most popular brand across genres.



This is the one that I have been using. It shares the features of the Kun, but with a little difference in curvature and price.

 

fiddlershop.com/products/fiddl...amp;_ss=c

Erockin - Posted - 09/13/2022:  05:36:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by rosinhead

I played for over ten years without one, but over the last couple of years have started using one more often than not. At this point it just feels better. I angle the fiddle a little more in front of my body vs. to the side and in doing that use less chin/jaw to hold the fiddle. Basically my upper chest and left arm doing most of the support. The shoulder rest allows a sturdier feel for me and a more relaxed left hand. There are lots of good ones out there and sampling them is always going to be the best option. IMO, Kun seems to be the most popular brand across genres.



This is the one that I have been using. It shares the features of the Kun, but with a little difference in curvature and price.

 

fiddlershop.com/products/fiddl...amp;_ss=c

---

I like that one! I want to hold it the way. Thanks for the post, rosinhead!

alaskafiddler - Posted - 09/13/2022:  17:45:58

It's about finding comfort, balance... what works for you, and how you want to play.

Lot's of ways to hold the fiddle. Keep in mind, don't need to overly obsess about getting it perfect at first... initially (for some fiddlers and goals) might be more important to just find basic comfort and relaxed stability. Most end up changing things later with experience... it's generally part of process. Many players involves lot's of experimentation, holds and/or attachments/adjustments; end up with a collection of different SR and CR they've tried over the years. Finding set up to adapted to you (more than you adapting to a random set up), understand a bit of what function serves. It is important to listen to your body... differentiate between initial awkwardness vs actual discomfort or pain.

One thing to point out... a lot of beginners awkwardness, slipping, afraid it falling... and with that might do a few things. One is holding the neck with left hand, kind of like death grip idea (similar to guitar, mando, banjo). Another is the chin/shoulder squeeze (often from the "look ma no hands" idea); or the idea of the fiddle being more rigidly fixed/locked position. These involve tension; CR and SR don't necessarily solve those tension issues; might be less noticeable, for example the slight shoulder lift; but tension still there.

Chin rest come in different shapes, bowl depths, positioning (some more over the tail); and often overlooked is height. The latter involves the idea of the back of fiddle rests on collar bone shelf... and chin rest fills space rises up to the chin enough to catch it. As opposed to the pushing the back of fiddle up; or neck overly pushing chin down. Another consideration is the material that can cause some issues, from allergies to just hardness or feel (plastic vs wood); some folks like a softer cushion feel, and might use cloth or some pad (some dispense with CR completely, just use cloth).

The shoulder rest is probably more variable and adjustable (and debatable), in how might use it, for what function, where it's going to rest on body and fiddle; and might adjust it; angles, heights, curve/shape (some the curve is bendable); and of course padding/feel. One old school was just shoulder pad... could improvise just a sponge/rubberband... that many find work just fine to give slight cushion and anti slip. As Doug D mentioned... there is also the no SR folks, which has some advantages and advocates.

FWIW, violinistinbalance.org/index.html is a interesting site that covers some of this info... various equipment, adjustments, ergonomics (and will custom measure and design for you). 

Good luck, remember to breathe, and have fun.

Kye - Posted - 09/13/2022:  22:05:41

My opinion is just get an everest and be done with it. Avoid the ones with tubing /rubber on the ends, ive had 5, they fell off every two seconds. Possibly because they dry out or crack. Love my everest. More playing, less chasing.

Erockin - Posted - 09/14/2022:  05:14:50

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kye

My opinion is just get an everest and be done with it. Avoid the ones with tubing /rubber on the ends, ive had 5, they fell off every two seconds. Possibly because they dry out or crack. Love my everest. More playing, less chasing.

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Wow, that's great advice. Thanks. I just looked them up. I dig. It's a minor investment for a tool that can be experimented with. Even if it's not feeling right at first. 

Erockin - Posted - 09/14/2022:  05:16:51

quote:

---

Originally posted by alaskafiddler

It's about finding comfort, balance... what works for you, and how you want to play.

Lot's of ways to hold the fiddle. Keep in mind, don't need to overly obsess about getting it perfect at first... initially (for some fiddlers and goals) might be more important to just find basic comfort and relaxed stability. Most end up changing things later with experience... it's generally part of process. Many players involves lot's of experimentation, holds and/or attachments/adjustments; end up with a collection of different SR and CR they've tried over the years. Finding set up to adapted to you (more than you adapting to a random set up), understand a bit of what function serves. It is important to listen to your body... differentiate between initial awkwardness vs actual discomfort or pain.

One thing to point out... a lot of beginners awkwardness, slipping, afraid it falling... and with that might do a few things. One is holding the neck with left hand, kind of like death grip idea (similar to guitar, mando, banjo). Another is the chin/shoulder squeeze (often from the "look ma no hands" idea); or the idea of the fiddle being more rigidly fixed/locked position. These involve tension; CR and SR don't necessarily solve those tension issues; might be less noticeable, for example the slight shoulder lift; but tension still there.

Chin rest come in different shapes, bowl depths, positioning (some more over the tail); and often overlooked is height. The latter involves the idea of the back of fiddle rests on collar bone shelf... and chin rest fills space rises up to the chin enough to catch it. As opposed to the pushing the back of fiddle up; or neck overly pushing chin down. Another consideration is the material that can cause some issues, from allergies to just hardness or feel (plastic vs wood); some folks like a softer cushion feel, and might use cloth or some pad (some dispense with CR completely, just use cloth).

The shoulder rest is probably more variable and adjustable (and debatable), in how might use it, for what function, where it's going to rest on body and fiddle; and might adjust it; angles, heights, curve/shape (some the curve is bendable); and of course padding/feel. One old school was just shoulder pad... could improvise just a sponge/rubberband... that many find work just fine to give slight cushion and anti slip. As Doug D mentioned... there is also the no SR folks, which has some advantages and advocates.

FWIW, violinistinbalance.org/index.html is a interesting site that covers some of this info... various equipment, adjustments, ergonomics (and will custom measure and design for you). 

Good luck, remember to breathe, and have fun.

---

Thanks for the input and knowledge! It's inspiring to have somewhere to reflect on this challenging but fun instrument. 

ChickenMan - Posted - 09/14/2022:  16:27:23

Second the Everest suggestion. Inexpensive, easy to adjust. Chin rest is more important if you have a long neck, like I do.

Erockin - Posted - 09/15/2022:  04:56:47

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChickenMan

Second the Everest suggestion. Inexpensive, easy to adjust. Chin rest is more important if you have a long neck, like I do.

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Oh, and the variety of colors....lol. 

ChickenMan - Posted - 09/15/2022:  10:40:01

Meant to say shoulder rest is more important....

Proof read son, proof read

pete_fiddle - Posted - 09/15/2022:  12:46:15

i would say that a chinrest is fairly essential ...But a shoulder rest is an optional extra.



Personally i would try to get on with just a chin rest for as long as possible, before entering the expansive and expensive, world of the shoulder rest. i have tried a lot of shoulder rests (at least half a dozen) that ping off, scratch your fiddle , have little rubber bits that perish, are comfortable at first then injure your neck after a while, take up room in your fiddle case need adjusting etc..And are generally annoying. Before i ditched them all together and found that i really didn't need one at all.



i do see the practical uses for a "Chin rest". To keep your chin off of the tail piece and the top of the fiddle which would severely impair the sound of the fiddle. But a shoulder rest is a last resort if you still have problems holding the fiddle after a year or three imo

Edited by - pete_fiddle on 09/15/2022 12:47:34