fiddler55 - Posted - 05/12/2022:  14:00:42

I’m currently in the process of making a purchase on the violin attached ( see photos) I’ll also include a video.



Is this a French violin or something else.



Any help would be appreciated.

here is a video

tiktok.com/t/ZTdsJoqNj/?k=1

Edited by - fiddler55 on 05/12/2022 17:16:31

 

fiddledeedee3 - Posted - 05/12/2022:  14:27:06

Let’s see if this works.

ibb.co/GVZ9q2H
ibb.co/TvNstMy
ibb.co/nPVLLxT

 

fiddledeedee3 - Posted - 05/12/2022:  14:32:17

Each of the links will show the pics.

ibb.co/GVZ9q2H

fiddledeedee3 - Posted - 05/12/2022:  14:33:03

Here is the video

tiktok.com/t/ZTdsJoqNj/?k=1

Old Scratch - Posted - 05/12/2022:  14:55:44

Certainly appears to be French text - "...don & Fils" = (typical French-ending) name & Sons; "du" = of or from; "Poissonniere" = word derived from "fish", "fish-monger", maybe? maybe a street or neighbourhood name; "Paris" = ... hmmm - that one has me stumped ... !

Edited by - Old Scratch on 05/12/2022 14:56:49

fiddler55 - Posted - 05/12/2022:  15:53:05

I’m trying to figure out if it’s a French violin. It might be difficult but wanted opinions.

Thank you @oldscratch

Old Scratch - Posted - 05/12/2022:  16:00:30

I was going by the title of the thread .....

fiddler55 - Posted - 05/12/2022:  16:11:21

All is good and when looking at the title it is misleading. I knew the text was French but trying to see if it’s a French violin which is in question. Thank you @oldscratch for the help. :)

DougD - Posted - 05/12/2022:  16:25:37

There are people here who can probably tell you, but you've made it a little hard to view the photos. It would be easier if you could post the photos to your page here and attach them to your post. Need to see scroll, ff holes, corners, etc. (I'm not one of the ones who would know). Its a nice looking back for sure.

fiddler55 - Posted - 05/12/2022:  16:44:05

It was a nightmare trying to upload again. I’ll login with the laptop see if that will work. Thank you!

DougD - Posted - 05/12/2022:  17:03:46

The upload process doesn't seem very difficult to me, but there may be a restriction that you have to have a certain number of posts before it will let you do it.

KCFiddles - Posted - 05/12/2022:  18:18:07

Body corners look like it was BOB, Built on Back in Schoenbach, maybe varnished in Mirecourt. Nasty varnish. Can't see many pertinint details at all, but I'd spend what little money I had on something else. Body construction that I can see is not at all French from any time period whatsoever, but I have seen low-end German violins that do appear to have been varnished in Mirecourt.

Edited by - KCFiddles on 05/12/2022 18:20:44

KCFiddles - Posted - 05/12/2022:  18:33:32

FWIW - I watched the video. The player has some good skills, and should be pulling pretty good sound out of that violin, since it is set up with Dominant strings. I have pretty bad high frequency hearing loss, and even with her trained bow hand that violin hurt my ears badly, even on low volume, which is a pretty good indication it is a screech box and you'll never get it to sound even decent. You can find far better outfits for very little money.

fiddler55 - Posted - 05/12/2022:  19:09:58

Can we agree to disagree when it comes to the screech box comment? Yes, she does have a trained hand and plays professionally for an orchestra. But I do appreciate your comments.

NCnotes - Posted - 05/13/2022:  07:22:05

about Labels...
mine says "Andreas Morelli" and "Antonius Stradivarius 1774" on the inside. But is it a priceless Italian instrument? Nope, it's a common German-made model from the 1920s! So French label doesn't necessarily mean it's French...?

fiddler55 - Posted - 05/13/2022:  08:33:44

NCnotes I was told that it wasn’t French and just wanted other opinions. This will be my second violin. Last one I owned was horrible and cheap $100.

Thank you for your response.

KCFiddles - Posted - 05/13/2022:  09:48:28

quote:

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Originally posted by fiddler55

Can we agree to disagree when it comes to the screech box comment? Yes, she does have a trained hand and plays professionally for an orchestra. But I do appreciate your comments.

---

Sure. My thought as a pro who restores and sells fiddles for a living, is that she's pulling close to the best possible sound that it has in it, and compared to the thousands I've heard and worked with (and recorded hundreds) over the years, there are a lot better ones to be had for the money. I don't have to listen to it, though, and everyone is welcome to their own opinion, and nobody has to listen to me. Just offering one viewpoint, FWIW.

fiddler55 - Posted - 05/13/2022:  09:57:46

@KCFiddles I’m by far not an expert on violins. I stated to you that I appreciate your feedback. I’m curious since you are a professional, what would you value the violin with a KW Pernambuco bow?

KCFiddles - Posted - 05/13/2022:  12:55:35

I don't know what a KW pernambuco bow is, nor could I find any references to one.  Also, this is going to make me look like a real curmudgeon, but I can't put a value on that violin because I just wouldn't ever offer one like that to someone who I hoped to keep as a customer. I recently traded 25 violins like that to a guy who sells that sort of thing, in exchange for 3 decent trade violins and I felt like I came out WAY ahead!  I took a look around some old videos I shot a long time ago, and I still have this fiddle in a box in my basement.  It's very plain, and 29 years old, so it's gonna hold up OK. But you'll see what I mean about the sound. If you like it, I'll list it in the Classifieds with used case and carbon fiber bow for $350. 

fiddler55 - Posted - 05/15/2022:  10:05:34

You haven’t heard of pernambuco bows?

fiddler55 - Posted - 05/15/2022:  10:16:20

quote:

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Originally posted by fiddledeedee3

 

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DougD - Posted - 05/15/2022:  10:56:51

Of course he has. I'm sure he means he hasn't heard of a KW bow.

fiddler55 - Posted - 05/15/2022:  11:54:07

The KW was a typo on my end. Apologies. Are they pretty decent bows that you know of?

rosinhead - Posted - 05/16/2022:  04:50:57

Pernambuco is just the wood so it is hard to tell what the quality of a particular bow is without looking at it or at least knowing the maker. They can range in price from $70 to the tens of thousands. Personally, I would test several bows in your price range and pick the one you can get the best sound out of. If you are spending under $1,000 you typically can get a lot more bow for your money with carbon fiber bows. The other benefit of carbon fiber is that they are less delicate and can withstand changes in humidity much better. If you don't have the option locally to test different bows there are more than a few reputable sites online that will send you multiple at a time to try out...i.e Shar Music, Southwest Strings, and Johnson String Instruments.

KCFiddles - Posted - 05/16/2022:  11:08:09

quote:

---

Originally posted by rosinhead

Pernambuco is just the wood so it is hard to tell what the quality of a particular bow is without looking at it or at least knowing the maker. They can range in price from $70 to the tens of thousands. Personally, I would test several bows in your price range and pick the one you can get the best sound out of. If you are spending under $1,000 you typically can get a lot more bow for your money with carbon fiber bows. The other benefit of carbon fiber is that they are less delicate and can withstand changes in humidity much better. If you don't have the option locally to test different bows there are more than a few reputable sites online that will send you multiple at a time to try out...i.e Shar Music, Southwest Strings, and Johnson String Instruments.

---

I agree with this. Can't tell without knowing the maker, or, best, trying the bow.  I usually sell carbon fiber bows to beginners because they work consistently well, don't warp, and play well for fiddlers. Most of my pro clients are playing the pernambuco veneered bows I sell, because they have all the advantages of carbon fiber, plus a little warmer sound.

BTW, I went back and listened to that video again. The teacher's voice was badly distorted (huge treble boost) which should have given me a clue that the whole video was distorted, making the fiddle sound really awful. I was just paying attention to what I heard, and missed other clues. Hope your fiddle ended up sounding a whole lot better in real life. I always check my photos and demo videos against "real life", so it sometimes doesn't occur to me that other people don't do the same.

NCnotes - Posted - 05/16/2022:  12:50:35

Yep OP told me that he/she made a recording with her phone, of a TikTok video...so who knows what it originally sounded like?!



The lady that sold to her/him, is a very good violinist so I don't think she could bring herself to sell anything harsh or horrible sounding to somebody...hopefully OP is happy with his/her (French?) fiddle.



(edited because unsure of pronouns!)

Edited by - NCnotes on 05/16/2022 13:00:18

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 05/16/2022:  13:07:33

I had the luxury of going to a couple of high-end violin shops and getting them to lay out an assortment of bows in all-but-not-insane price ranges for me to try. I used my best fiddle. There were several carbon fiber bows among the ones brought out. I wound up buying a Brazilian-made bow with a rounded shaft. The bow does not specify the type of wood but it is a distinctly lighter shade of brown than my other wooden bows. As opposed to my other bows, which barely show any grain structure at all, the grain structure of this bow consists of very short length dark stripes. Bottom line -- I have no idea what type of wood it is made from but this is my favorite bow by a large margin. It draws more volume and sweeter tone. It is easier for me to produce long, steady notes. I'm a happy guy. I have no urge to shop for a better one.

boxbow - Posted - 05/16/2022:  13:54:15

A word on bows, if I may. One of the best upgrades for your fiddle is a better bow. I think we're all assuming this discussion is confined to inexpensive equipment. Rule of thumb is you should be prepared to spend as much or more on your bow as you did on your fiddle. I've never spent more than a few hundred bucks on a used bow, but I've always been glad when I did. That's about as much as I've ever spent on a fiddle. I don't have fabulous fiddles. I don't have fabulous bows but they're well suited to my fiddles. What I'm saying is that if this particular bow is playable for you, great, and prepare your budget for another bow as you grow. Just yesterday I borrowed a Coda Protege (carbon fiber bow) for 2 hours I was a very happy fiddler. I'd never used one before. Then I had to give it back.

fiddler55 - Posted - 05/17/2022:  17:29:37

I'd like to thank everyone for posting their comments and suggestions. The violin should arrive tomorrow and I'm excited! The lady who sold the violin to me has an outstanding reputation and plays with a well known orchestra. This is the reason I made the purchase and sometimes you have to take a chance. I agree that the likelihood of her putting her reputation on the line and selling me a horrible violin would be doubtful. 

She was telling me that her violin that she plays in the orchestra is worth more than her home which is very expensive as she lives in NYC. She also told me her violin is 300 plus years old and doesn't even have a label inside it.

I posted to get feedback, and for me I just want to learn how to play. I don't even know how to play a tune.

I spend most of my time being deployed overseas and have done so for 25 years plus.

I have no idea what I'm doing. I just want to learn how to play and have since I was a child which was far too long ago.

Thank you to everyone, and I'll be sure to post pictures when it arrives so you all can take a look.

quote:

---

Originally posted by KCFiddles

quote:

---

Originally posted by rosinhead

Pernambuco is just the wood so it is hard to tell what the quality of a particular bow is without looking at it or at least knowing the maker. They can range in price from $70 to the tens of thousands. Personally, I would test several bows in your price range and pick the one you can get the best sound out of. If you are spending under $1,000 you typically can get a lot more bow for your money with carbon fiber bows. The other benefit of carbon fiber is that they are less delicate and can withstand changes in humidity much better. If you don't have the option locally to test different bows there are more than a few reputable sites online that will send you multiple at a time to try out...i.e Shar Music, Southwest Strings, and Johnson String Instruments.

---

I agree with this. Can't tell without knowing the maker, or, best, trying the bow.  I usually sell carbon fiber bows to beginners because they work consistently well, don't warp, and play well for fiddlers. Most of my pro clients are playing the pernambuco veneered bows I sell, because they have all the advantages of carbon fiber, plus a little warmer sound.

BTW, I went back and listened to that video again. The teacher's voice was badly distorted (huge treble boost) which should have given me a clue that the whole video was distorted, making the fiddle sound really awful. I was just paying attention to what I heard, and missed other clues. Hope your fiddle ended up sounding a whole lot better in real life. I always check my photos and demo videos against "real life", so it sometimes doesn't occur to me that other people don't do the same.

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Edited by - fiddler55 on 05/17/2022 17:30:39

NCnotes - Posted - 05/18/2022:  08:05:20

Yes, a professional violist I know, was asking my opinion (casually) on some violas he was trying. He said, "And this one is worth more than my car!" ( I was going to ask him if I could play one of them...but decided better not touch it! :-)

I was checking out violin videos online out of curiosity, trying to figure out what my own 'dream sound' is. ( I mean, I like my violin but it was chosen for me by my teacher when I was like...14? ) So I clicked through on one that I loved...$22K. Ha ha ha. I suffer from "champagne taste, beer budget" syndrome! In real life I would never even try anything in that price range, so that's the problem with the internet!

Enjoy fiddling, fiddler55!
And what will your first tune be? ( Angelina Baker?? :-)

pete_fiddle - Posted - 05/18/2022:  11:43:55

I think my dream sound would be realized by a David Gusset violin..... if i could only play like Alasdair Fraser.



How much would one of those cost ?

TimeTension - Posted - 05/18/2022:  14:13:23

I've paid more for two of my violins than I did for my car, but when I slow down on the highway for a hitchhiker they usually wave me on.

KCFiddles - Posted - 05/18/2022:  14:23:01

So much of it depends on the player. Here's one violin that has a more open sound, not as "covered" as Frasiers, and it's being played pretty loud, not for sweetness, but I've played it quite a bit, and it's capable of producing the kind of colors you hear when Frasier plays Scots airs, and it can be just as bright when playing reels and jigs.  It's far from the best instrument I have on hand, but it's the first that came to mind when listening to Frasier, and it's under $5,000  Albin Paulus    So much depends on setup, tonal adjustment, and the player. This one has a lot of latitude, which is a characteristic of a good instrument. I'll be interested to know your reaction.

DougD - Posted - 05/18/2022:  15:16:30

fiddler55 - I hope your violin arrives safely. Its always exciting to get a new instrument, and I hope this one is everything you're hoping for. I guess you realize you'll also need some good rosin and a tuner (electronic is good, but a tuning fork will work). Keep us posted how it goes!
As far as presenting instruments online, I happen to own a violin by this maker, and evéry once in awhile I check around to try to learn a little more abut them. This one has been sold, but I thought it was a nice presentation: youtu.be/HBfkIKzaO0o

KCFiddles - Posted - 05/18/2022:  15:55:36

quote:

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Originally posted by pete_fiddle

I think my dream sound would be realized by a David Gusset violin..... if i could only play like Alasdair Fraser.



How much would one of those cost ?

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Come to think of it, some of my least expensive fiddles get the "OK" from working fiddlers, and one of them in particular has that "covered" sound on the low end, and a very bright, full and open A and E, which is something that many fiddlers like, not just Fraser. Those fiddles only sell for $800. This video was just aimed to show the overall fiddle sound, not to sound like Fraser, but playing in front of the monitor with good speakers, it's definitely in the ballpark Southwind 150312. I'm tempted to do a video of Scots airs on various fiddles just to demonstrate.

DougD - Posted - 05/18/2022:  16:10:10

I liked that one, Michael, although I'm not listening on anything very good.