Alegria - Posted - 07/23/2021:  00:56:46

Hello friends! I came here from the Banjohangout. I am a banjo player who is considering getting into a bit more sustain. I have little experience with the fiddle. I tried it 15 years ago, didn't stick. My daugther played fiddle for a few years, and I played tenor banjo around that time. I tried her fiddle a few times and found it easy to transfer tunes from the banjo to the fiddle as the notes were in the same places. That being said my daughter found my tone unbearable!

When buying a new instrument I always tend to look for that sweet spot between unplayable toy and handmade instrument. With banjos that put me at about 600 dollars. Do you have any idea where this middle ground for fiddles are? I tried asking on Reddit and it seems I should expect to shell out 2000-3000 dollars for something decent?

My experience with buying instruments is that there is a point where increase in cash doesn't correlate with increase in sound and playability. The difference seems to grow exponentially for every dollar invested. This is usually mid-upper mid range factory made instruments with a decent setup.

Do you have any idea about what price range I would have to look at when it comes to fiddles? How long can I go before it stops sounding like a fiddle? My daughter played a Stagg that we paid 50$ for. She could make it sound beautiful. It was a delight to listen to. We still have it, but it is a smaller size and the bow has lost half the hairs.

ChickenMan - Posted - 07/23/2021:  04:32:39

I've purchased old beaters for $50 US and then paid to have it set up and I've paid $400 for a student fiddle ready to play (already set up). In the end they both cost about the same. I've had a few decent fiddles in that price range ($400). The violins you're being pointed towards are likely intended for classical playing.

Alegria - Posted - 07/23/2021:  05:39:16

Thanks for the reply Chicken Man! That's comforting news. I can afford 400 dollars.

I have seen several shops carry this one:

gear4music.no/en/Woodwind-Bras...Size/3WNG

It's Yamaha and I know that they make solid classical guitars. Very good sound for not a lot for money. Do they have similiar standing in their fiddle line?

They have two models that look very similiar, I believe the cheaper alternative (about 300) is not solid wood. Do you have any toughts on solid vs ply on fiddles?

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 07/23/2021:  07:20:14

Yamaha makes a solid student grade instrument. So does their competitor Eastman. There are thousands of German manufactured instruments for the late 19th and early 20th centuries still floating around out there. They range from violin shaped pieces to very good instruments. With a fiddle the setup and bow are incredibly important. As the Chicken Man points out a fifty dollar fiddle with some quality work may become a nice instrument. I paid 250.00$ for my first decent fiddle and 25.00$ for my first sound bow. Granted this was a few decades ago. So yeah 400.00$ or a bit more will get you an instrument that can get you started. Buy a good mute , practice your intonation with a tuner or a generated tone. Be patient... at first it is not music but noise. R/

farmerjones - Posted - 07/23/2021:  12:10:54

Find out where the school kids are renting. This may also help to make a connection to a service/support person (luthier). Many time instrument rental people also sell used instruments. Knowing what I know now, I should have done this. My first was a 4/4 Cremona Sv80. 80usd. Not setup. Not payable strings. Bow was not primed. A luthier took pitty on me. He made a customer/friend for life.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 07/23/2021:  13:46:56

I've unfortunately found a near direct correlation between quality and price. Yes, it does factor into your personal decision process how old a particular fiddle might be or how pretty it looks. But I've had the privilege of having more than a few fiddle shops within easy driving distance, and it has enabled me to put more than my share of the beasts under my chin. And I got to say that a good three-quarters of the time, the more expensive the instrument is, the better it sounds. Old? New? At least when it came to my budget, it didn't matter (I just could never get up the nerve to ask to audition a genuinely expensive vintage violin).

This isn't to say, of course, that you won't be more than happy with a modestly priced instrument. But I still regularly dream of the fiddles I've played that were just too far above my budget to buy.

Alegria - Posted - 07/23/2021:  14:22:47

Renting really isn't an option. I don't like the idea of giving away money, then I would rather buy it and rent it from myself. I doubt there are reasonable solutions for this where I live anyway.


But I have my eyes on two particular models now. One is a second hand Gewa Allegro Garnityr. I can maybe get it at 200 USD. The seller is still considering my bid. The second option is shelling out 500usd for a brand new Yamaha V5. I prefer buying second hand so I hope the deal strikes through.

I have also found several unbranded 10ish year old fiddles that goes between 200 and 500 USD. Typically the sellers have no idea what they are selling so I am anxious about the price.


Lonesome that's comforting. I understand there are fine aspects of expensive instruments and you are very lucky to have all those options available. Still it's good to know that a 500usd fiddle can bring me joy and music! I am not planning on joining an orchestra, I just want to alternate between banjo and fiddle in my band(We play old time music)

KCFiddles - Posted - 07/23/2021:  14:44:47

One of the very best players I know, Justin Branum, (look him up on You Tube) won the Nashville Masters Championship on a fiddle he paid 25 dollars for, plus a bit more for setup, naturally. A lot of pro fiddlers have bragged to me that they never paid more than $800 for a working fiddle, and indeed, I've got one for sale in the classifieds for $795 that received the approval of a couple of full-time pro fiddlers. Still, the prices I've gotten run all over the place, usually from a few hundred to several thousand. Depends on what you like.

You can buy a good beginner violin alone, suitable for an adult for $350 -$400, and a complete outfit with carbon bow and plywood case for under $500 to $550, depending on your choice. So, again, it all depends on you and what you like, how picky you are, and who you are dealing with.

KCFiddles - Posted - 07/23/2021:  15:07:55

quote:

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Originally posted by Alegria

Renting really isn't an option. I don't like the idea of giving away money, then I would rather buy it and rent it from myself. I doubt there are reasonable solutions for this where I live anyway.





But I have my eyes on two particular models now. One is a second hand Gewa Allegro Garnityr. I can maybe get it at 200 USD. The seller is still considering my bid. The second option is shelling out 500usd for a brand new Yamaha V5. I prefer buying second hand so I hope the deal strikes through.



I have also found several unbranded 10ish year old fiddles that goes between 200 and 500 USD. Typically the sellers have no idea what they are selling so I am anxious about the price.





Lonesome that's comforting. I understand there are fine aspects of expensive instruments and you are very lucky to have all those options available. Still it's good to know that a 500usd fiddle can bring me joy and music! I am not planning on joining an orchestra, I just want to alternate between banjo and fiddle in my band(We play old time music)

---

Setup is critically important, but you can't tell that without trying the instrument. If I were in your shoes, I'd lean hard toward the used Gewa outfit, especially if you can get it around $200. Just seems like a better value to me, and Gewa isn't junk. Yamaha isn't junk either, but I don't see enough of either brand to compare.

RinconMtnErnie - Posted - 07/23/2021:  18:07:38

My first fiddle was a used Scott Cao student violin SV100, which I may have payed $450 to $550 used with a case and bow. It was well set up with a fiddle radiused bridge from a shop I trusted, The Folk Shop. I played that for at least ten years. The build quality was great. It had a two-piece back where the halves didn't match, but each half looked great. After ten years or so I learned that it was kind of shrill. I absolutely think you can find a good beginner fiddle for $450, but you either need to work with a shop that you trust or a fiddler friend who can tell you that a particular instrument is good.

I currently have three fiddles that all sound good to excellent. The best two cost between $1400 to $1500. One cost about $5 to $7 when it was a new student instrument around 1880. But between inflation and lutherie costs it has more value. Another was more like $400 when I bought it, but cost me around $2400 to get it to sound good. It does not sound as good as the cheaper instruments, but looks awesome. For good sound for an advanced player, I think $800 to $1500 is a sweet spot. That's not to say great instruments can't be found for much less, but those will be harder to find and require a discerning ear.

farmerjones - Posted - 07/23/2021:  19:48:16

quote:

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Originally posted by Alegria

Renting really isn't an option. I don't like the idea of giving away money, then I would rather buy it and rent it from myself. I doubt there are reasonable solutions for this where I live anyway.

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If you were referring to my post/suggestion,  it was not intended to recommend renting. I was recommending the connection, or what could be one's first connection with anyone that knows about violins locally. 

doryman - Posted - 07/24/2021:  11:17:17

quote:

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Originally posted by farmerjones

quote:

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Originally posted by Alegria

Renting really isn't an option. I don't like the idea of giving away money, then I would rather buy it and rent it from myself. I doubt there are reasonable solutions for this where I live anyway.

---

If you were referring to my post/suggestion,  it was not intended to recommend renting. I was recommending the connection, or what could be one's first connection with anyone that knows about violins locally. 

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I'll also add that most of the violin shops that rent out instruments will apply your rent to the purchase price if you decide that you like enough to keep it.  

OP, I too came from banjo to fiddle about a 1.5 years ago.  I think it's MUCH easier to find a decent enough fiddle for $500 than a decent enough banjo for the same price.  First, there's just lots and lots of fiddles out there, new and used.  Second, there is a plethora shops that sell, rent and rent to own.  Third, there were millions of fiddles made in Europe 60 - 100 years ago (I'm not exaggerating...millions).  Many, many of those fiddles are still around and can be had for less that $1000...commonly far less.  I have two,  I paid about $400 for each of them and they play wonderfully and sound good too.  

Quincy - Posted - 07/25/2021:  01:20:53

Hello Alegria,



I recently purchased a Chinese violin from the luthier of my violin teacher. It was adapted by the luthier, he put strings on it, a bridge and fine tuners and tuning pegs. He told me a Chinese violin can be a lot more than just a violin shaped object, if you know what you have to look for on the Chinese market.

My violin costed 580 euro and I have a 165 euro wooden bow with it and a decent suitcase which costed another 230 euro.

This means for 975 euro I had a decent set up.



I just told the luthier my goal is to play mainly folk, and he gave me 2 violins to test out from a series of 6-7 violins and 3 bows , which I could all take home for a while until I had made up my mind.



Here you can hear me testing out my brand new violin:



I really am in love with the sound of this violin and am glad I had the help of a young but very talented and dedicated luthier!

Edited by - Quincy on 07/25/2021 01:25:57

VIDEO: Practising on my new violin
(click to view)

 

old cowboy - Posted - 08/31/2021:  07:54:20

I purchased mine from theFiddlerman at The
Fiddlershop.com. They are located in Florida. Ship all over the world. Very reliable people to deal with. Sell excellent fiddles. Go to their website for videos of their products.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 08/31/2021:  13:41:32

I'll put it simply. I have three fiddles. I play each of them often. All of them are professionally set up. The quality of the sound I can get from them strictly follows the cost I paid for them. I've said all this in previous posts, but here I go again --

Ironically, my most inexpensive fiddle is the oldest one -- a German factory fiddle from some time around the year 1900. I cannot be sure of the exact date because several fiddle shops have told me that every single label inside of it is "fiddling" with the truth. Tone is sweet but scrawny. Compared to my other fiddles it weighs a ton. I keep it in AEAE. What did I pay for it? Five Hundred?

Next up the ladder is a German fiddle from 2015. I bought it new. I think it cost me $1500. The finish looks as if it were poured on at an automobile factory. Rich but dark tone that can get lost among a sea of fellow fiddlers, but fellow jammers have complimented me about how pretty it sounds.

Finally, there's my mid-level German Bernd Dimbath fiddle from 2002. Bought it in maybe 2008. I paid in the mid four figures, and yeah I suffered a decent amount of guilt about the amount of lucre I threw at my accursed fiddling hobby. Nevertheless, it is by far my favorite fiddle. Beautifully finished. Beautifully antiqued. When my bowing is going the way it should properly go, the tone is elegant and assertive. It addictively keeps itself under my chin, driving my wife and neighbors nuts.