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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Did you see this article?


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/54687

sbhikes2 - Posted - 02/06/2021:  09:44:57


nytimes.com/2021/02/03/us/ozar...-jam.html
The comments are interesting, too. I agree that it's not as dire as the article makes it seem. The Ozarks aren't the only place this music is played. It's played in California, for crying out loud!

I feel excited that Old Indiana is in there. I brought that one to my jam and a lot of people really like it (and some hate it because it sounds like It's a Small World). We may be Californians but a great deal of our music tends toward the Missouri, Illinois and other Mid-West origins.

DougD - Posted - 02/06/2021:  10:08:02


Subscription only. Probably the usual "blah blah blah, gloom and doom, blah blah blah dying tradition etc." It is interesting that it says they played "Pig Ankle Rag" though. I'm interested in the history of that tune.


Edited by - DougD on 02/06/2021 10:10:08

sbhikes2 - Posted - 02/06/2021:  10:32:36


Doom and gloom because people learn the music by watching and listening to each other play and we can't do that because pandemic + old people = no chance to do that.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 02/06/2021:  12:32:28


I enjoyed the heck out of the L.A. Old Time scene. It almost seems as if I could go to a jam three times a week. Pete Tinker's jam at a pizza parlor in Northridge (one evening I actually hosted the Pizza Jam at my house). David Bragger's jams at his house. Ben Torres' raucous, spirited jams at a beer bar near Dodger Stadium. Jams in Griffith Park. I was so busy with jams I never even bothered to go to the jams in Pacific Palisades or Long Beach (or was it Torrance?). Then there was the bluegrass jam I mentioned in another post, in Ventura.

DougD - Posted - 02/06/2021:  14:37:40


Probably before your time, Ed, but I think the Ash Grove in LA did a lot to change the course of American musical history.

DougD - Posted - 02/06/2021:  14:46:42


Diane - "people learn the music by watching and listening to each other play." That's certainly true, and I've learned a lot that way (although I'm not a jammer in the current sense) but I also learned a lot from recordings, radio, and sheet music, just like the older folks did. I'm still learning from certain YouTubes and Larry Warren's wonderful Slippery Hill website.
I can't read the article, but for a long time people have preached "gloom and doom" theories about the demise of traditional, hand to ear musc, but as its turned out that hasn't happened. It may have evolved and morphed dramatically, but somehow it keeps going.

RinconMtnErnie - Posted - 02/06/2021:  15:41:24


I did see the article! I thought it was well done (good narrative, photographs and recordings). I just see at as factual human interest, not doom and gloom. My wife subscribes to NYT, but that's not how I saw it. I saw it through the google news feed.

farmerjones - Posted - 02/06/2021:  16:18:18


Read the article as well. I kept thinking, what does the new york times know about Mo. fiddling? Have they never heard of Charlie Walden?

Flat_the_3rd_n7th - Posted - 02/06/2021:  19:53:38


NYT knows nothing about the Ozarks. They sent some snoop to a town to get a story. Found an old-timer that was willing to drive around in his truck with a mask on for a picture. He relates to when bad times were made better by the establishment.

I live slap in and on top of the Ozarks--Boston Mtns--no one around here is boogered. Because you can't trust who says what, on any political or media side anymore. You trust your relations, common sense, and what has worked in the past. In the sticks, we still meet and visit and trade and jam however we see fit. If somebody gets sick, we get them doctored and pray for them. They either get well or not, it's up to the Almighty, not the state. NYT won't come to the way-off hollers to inquire cause we don't fit their narrative--we won't give the responses they want. That, or they are scared their reporter will disappear, and fed to the hogs.

We are intentionally backward for a reason--it's the best way

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 02/06/2021:  20:08:16


quote:

Originally posted by DougD

Probably before your time, Ed, but I think the Ash Grove in LA did a lot to change the course of American musical history.






I wouldn't say I was a regular at the Ash Grove.  But I did go there several times, mostly to cater to my hippie girlfriends.  Did I see Arlo Guthrie there?  Did I see Doc Watson?

DougBrock - Posted - 02/06/2021:  23:06:04


I had read the article and enjoyed it. Quiet, respectful coverage of a small rural jam that is being impacted by the pandemic. Some nice pics too.

Hoodoo - Posted - 02/07/2021:  06:30:31


You can't forget that the article was written for a broad, international audience, most of whom have never heard of old-time music or are barely familiar with it, thanks to its rare forays into the mainstream ala O Brother Where Art Thou. That being said, I think that it was well written and seemed like accurate portrayal of the situation in this small specific area. A lot of younger people also took issue with the article on Facebook, reminding us all of the vibrant scene in other areas of the Ozarks (ie, the Fayetteville area)

Earworm - Posted - 02/07/2021:  07:48:26


I read it too. I just think this group's eventual demise may be more related to their failure to recruit younger members, than having to take a year off (or a few months, it sounds like) because of Covid. Their older members, no doubt, would still have had the health problems associated with age, regardless of the interruption.



I do agree with the complaints about how the article was written to highlight the doom-and-gloom romanticized telling of the "last of it's species." I guess I just got a kick out of reading anything at all about Old Time Music in the mainstream media. And sure, I expect that this group, like many groups with a history will be hard to replace. That's why they should recruit some younger members. Also women - what's with the boys-club over there? They certainly do present a stereotypical picture of old white male fiddlers, past their prime and at the end of an era.


Edited by - Earworm on 02/07/2021 07:53:42

farmerjones - Posted - 02/07/2021:  08:47:18


quote:

Originally posted by Earworm

 Also women - what's with the boys-club over there? 






Natalie McMaster, Liz Carroll, Kimber Ludiker, Alita Stoneking, Donna Jo Wallace, Minde Hunke, Sedra Bistodeau, the list goes on and on. If people never heard them play, they've never heard fiddling. 

Earworm - Posted - 02/07/2021:  09:22:59


Well, gee, @farmerjones thanks for including me. wink But my point is that these guys' homogenous group is part of their demise. Even their wives got "bored" coming - they could have become involved but they didn't. I would be surprised if there were not other women, people of color, young people, and more, that were either excluded outright, made to feel out of place, or just not taught. Musicians take nurturing at many levels. This is Arkansas, after all, but I believe this can happen many places.



*I don't know why my member tags don't come up as links. So, I apologize if you've ever missed one.


Edited by - Earworm on 02/07/2021 09:30:26

DougD - Posted - 02/07/2021:  09:57:18


@Earworm - This is just a test to see if the suggested method of tagging works (I think you have to use plain text).
Also, when I think of fine youg fiddlers I know, many of them turn out to be women.i guess I'm just hanging out with the wrong crowd!

DougD - Posted - 02/07/2021:  10:02:12


Hmmm, maybe they don't come up as links, but I know I get emails when people tag me.
Also, I think I meant "fine young fiddlers."

Old Scratch - Posted - 02/07/2021:  12:41:36


Once in a while, it actually is the end of something. I was reading somewhere recently, in a discussion similar to this one, someone reminding us that the Irish harp tradition died out completely with the last few players in the early years of the 19th century. It was 'revived' in the 20th century, but no one pretends the tradition is unbroken, or that modern playing has much to do with the older tradition, other than involving the harp tunes that were put down on paper. In fact, if you looked into, I'm sure you could find any number of musical and other folk traditions that have disappeared. Whether we should care or not is a different question.

RichJ - Posted - 02/07/2021:  13:38:31


quote:

Originally posted by sbhikes2

Doom and gloom because people learn the music by watching and listening to each other play and we can't do that because pandemic + old people = no chance to do that.






Hey Diane - Arn't you fogetting something...like huge number of internet websites devoted to OT music and a bazillion Youtube vids? 

sbhikes2 - Posted - 02/07/2021:  14:23:20


quote:






Hey Diane - Arn't you fogetting something...like huge number of internet websites devoted to OT music and a bazillion Youtube vids?






I'm flattered you think I wrote a NY Times article!

RichJ - Posted - 02/07/2021:  14:29:28


quote:

Originally posted by sbhikes2

quote:






Hey Diane - Arn't you fogetting something...like huge number of internet websites devoted to OT music and a bazillion Youtube vids?






I'm flattered you think I wrote a NY Times article!






Ooops, guess I didn't realize you were quoting. So many folks crying about the disappearance of OT music, lol

East Texas Fiddle - Posted - 02/07/2021:  17:42:05


quote:

Originally posted by Earworm

I would be surprised if there were not other women, people of color, young people, and more, that were either excluded outright, made to feel out of place, or just not taught. Musicians take nurturing at many levels. This is Arkansas, after all, but I believe this can happen many places.



 






Did you just make a stereotypical assumption about an entire state full of people? Aside from the first one in your post..



Maybe I misread? Sure hope so. If so, my apologies.



If not, just wow..


Edited by - East Texas Fiddle on 02/07/2021 17:45:03

Earworm - Posted - 02/07/2021:  20:34:20


East Texas Fiddle I spoke too hastily, and I apologize. Thanks for calling me out.

mallery - Posted - 02/07/2021:  20:45:40


Alvie Dooms was the guitarist for Bob Holt and Gordon McCann played with Art Galbraith. These are two top-notch musicians and are treasures in terms of their knowledge of variations of tunes that have developed in this corner of Missouri. Yes, old time music is widespread and we have many recordings, but places like McClurg’s are precious for preserving local styles.

Hoodoo - Posted - 02/08/2021:  05:25:26


And I'm really not knocking the author of the article. Full disclosure, I work in the same field. However, its obvious that they haven't read Howard Wight Marshall's amazing books about traditional Missouri fiddle music.

East Texas Fiddle - Posted - 02/08/2021:  07:43:57


quote:

Originally posted by Earworm

East Texas Fiddle I spoke too hastily, and I apologize. Thanks for calling me out.






No worries,; hope I wasn't rude about it.



Tactfulness isn't my strong suit, but it needs to be!

WyoBob - Posted - 02/08/2021:  15:34:41


quote:

Originally posted by Earworm

I That's why they should recruit some younger members. Also women - what's with the boys-club over there? They certainly do present a stereotypical picture of old white male fiddlers, past their prime and at the end of an era.






Recruiting has been going on in the Buffalo, WY area for many years.  Women, kids, and old guys who are beginner's (me).  Johnson County, WY is a hotbed of old time and blue grass.   The main instigator in having a very active music community in our area is due to Lynn Young.   Friends of Chickenman and DougD and many others.  He was involved with the Bighorn Mountain Festival here for years (on hold due to Covid and some other scheduling conflicts.)  He's played every Thursday nite for 13 (?) years or so at the old Occidental Hotel here in Buffalo. 



occidentalwyoming.com/events/d..._sessions



He's the main "mover and shaker"  in the "Bluegrass Camp for Kids" and has taught a Warnke class for all ages for several years.   When I decided to buy a banjo 9 years ago, I took lessons from Lynn and really got into old time.   He eventually invited me to play with his small, strictly old time music group and, after playing with these talented folks, I got interested in the fiddle and bought one a year and a half ago and got hooked on that.  I guess you could say, he's an "enabler".smiley



He's mentored so many great young people in the area for many years, some who have cut "CD's" and performed at many venues.   And, I've gotten to play with several of them.  They're light years ahead of where I'll every be in musical  ability but tolerate me (though I've not played the fiddle with any of them yet).   I don't think they're ready for that!  Every time I get to play with these folks is one of the biggest highlights of my life.  I'm so grateful to be able to play (and socialize) with these great folks and really miss playing with them as I've "hermitized" myself due to covid.   Thankfully, I've recorded many sessions of our playing together and now listen to them (like right now as I'm typing this) and play along with them every day with my fiddle thru my recordings.



 

bsed - Posted - 02/08/2021:  16:02:42


I don't really get some of the comments I read here, like some big city reporter went 'snooping around', etc. Maybe the article was hinting that this jam or jams like it won't come back. I don't share those sentiments. I hope the McClurg general store will continue to host these jams, and I think it probably will. People in SW Missouri are especially devoted to their regional music. I personally got to visit McClurg on 2 occasions. I met Bob Holt and Alvie Dooms. There are tunes played in that area that ya won't hear anywhere else.

bsed - Posted - 02/08/2021:  16:07:00


And actually (going back to the first sentence of my post above) It's not up to a big city paper to report on this matter as if the reporter was a veteran fiddle player or something. I thought the NYT did a fine job and wrote a fine article. They portrayed a community that most people in this country didn't know existed.

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