Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

124
Fiddle Lovers Online


Discussion Forum

Hide these ads: join the Players Union!

 All Forums
 Other Fiddle-Related Topics
 Other Fiddle-Related Topics
 ARCHIVED TOPIC: What is your reaction to feedback?


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/54590

Page: 1  2  

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 01/23/2021:  12:27:06


Honestly...I was wondering about this concerning my own playing. Do I listen to advice? Am I hurt by criticism? Do I like compliments? Mainly I'm thinking the general answer is no. I mean, yeah, I hear advice and I might keep it in mind...in case I'm doing something so doggone egregious and terrible that it's painful or depressing to hear me play...lol...which might be the case at times. Hopefully not too often...but yeah, I hear advice and I might think on it some...but...I weigh it pretty heavy against my own feeling about my playing...if I absolutely love what i'm doing...then I can't change it because somebody better than I am advises me to. This is what happens so much when I've gone to Bluegrass jams...seems so many who hear me play want to change what I'm doing...yeah, I hear their points out...but if I love what it is I'm doing more than their advice hits me, which, I confess, has been more often the case, then I don't pay attention...lol. Maybe I'm not teachable. Then, criticism...I must say it has always quasi-amused me to be criticized for anything...all of my life...either I agree with the criticism, knowing all too well what case is being made against whatever I'm doing and just having hoped the other person just didn't notice (once I had to play an organ for a church service...I made the chords with my left hand and poked out the melodies with my right hand...I hit the major bass notes with my fumbling foot, where I could and thought i did good enough that maybe nobody'd notice I knew nothing whatsoever about playing the organ. Right after church, a woman came up to me and really let me know I was missing the whole point of how organ is supposed to be played, especially the foot pedals...lol...ooops...I hoped nobody'd notice), or sometimes I'm shocked at the content of what was said or shocked I didn't even think about what was being said, maybe really good criticism I needed to hear. Usually not hurt...sometimes I listen to wonder if I'm as bad as what was said, and still somehow find it unexpectedly interesting that anyone would give me enough attention and thought as to offer some type criticism. I might even learn something from it. How 'bout compliments. It's not the same as criticism...I mean...I am personally very touched and encouraged if someone says my music did something to inspire them...inspire in any way, but especially if they tell me they picked up an instrument or plan on it...then it's like super fun sharing...that makes me really happy. But if nobody said a word...what would I feel like? And my whole question is...how reflective is your playing to the attitudes or comments expressed by others???? For whatever reason, I'm just wondering about this today. And if everybody hated my playing and told me so...no, i wouldn't like that, but I would still play the way I love to play, because I do love so much to play. But it adds to the fun to feel like you were successful in sharing something you love that much. Ok...just blabberin' out loud on the world wide web...penny for your own thoughts. How much is your playing reflective of the opinions and feedback of others? Or, how obstinately do you continue on in the face of feeling not-so-welcoming opinions or downright neglect??? How personal to you is your playing?


Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 01/23/2021 12:34:49

TuneWeaver - Posted - 01/23/2021:  13:10:19


Two years ago at Clifftop I was giving a lot of lessons.. Non students would sit around and listen in and 'learn?" from me...or not.... Anyway, this one time, after a lesson an audience member said, "Would you mind if I gave YOU a lesson?"...Hmm, wasn't expecting that.. The speaker was our Own, GAPBOB..whose fiddling style I greatly admire... He pointed out a discrepancy in my bow angle which I'd never noticed......It was humbling.....but I understood that the feedback was politely applied and justified.........(Love you, Bob!!!)...



On another note (pun intended) I remember that early on in jams I was quick with a compliment..to everyone no matter what skill level they had.....After a year or two...or three, I occurred to me that Never had anyone complimented ME.....!! I was deeply hurt..There was nobody to actually blame, but didn't anyone notice that I was playing my heart out??..... a little feedback now and then would have been nice...Now, decades (literally) later,  it is water under the dam.. I do NOT  need approval from others....as much..?   Anyway, what performer doesn't  want a little applause.



 


Edited by - TuneWeaver on 01/23/2021 13:16:17

Woodcutter - Posted - 01/23/2021:  13:50:05


I always appreciated the compliments, even when I was a rank beginner and knew it was patronizing rather than complimenting. Most folks don't criticize. But it has happened and when it did I tried to use it as motivation to do better (I suppose to show them --- or myself --- that I can).



BTW Peggy, our church was without an organist many years ago and I was asked to fill in while they found a new one. Made so many mistakes that everyone thought I was "playing in tongues".


Edited by - Woodcutter on 01/23/2021 13:51:09

TuneWeaver - Posted - 01/23/2021:  14:05:27


quote:

Originally posted by Woodcutter

I always appreciated the compliments, even when I was a rank beginner and knew it was patronizing rather than complimenting. Most folks don't criticize. But it has happened and when it did I tried to use it as motivation to do better (I suppose to show them --- or myself --- that I can).



BTW Peggy, our church was without an organist many years ago and I was asked to fill in while they found a new one. Made so many mistakes that everyone thought I was "playing in tongues".






Playing in tongues.. Now THAT is funny..

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 01/23/2021:  14:09:06


Lol...that's good, Woodcutter! I'll have to remember that one!

Interesting thoughts, guys.

I wanted to play something so bad today but just couldn't think of anything to play...boy is that frustrating. So I cleaned out the fridge...boy, is THAT frustrating...lol...but, good to have that done. We kinda put that one off too long...I used to give it a quick swipe and toss-out treatment once a week, back when I did the "Fly Lady" style upkeep on the house...but got lazy, then broke the arm...now all well...so if I can't think of something to play, I must catch up on house hold chores...so...gotta hurry and think up some good tunes to get me outta that situation!

farmerjones - Posted - 01/23/2021:  14:53:17


There is nobody more critical of my playing than me. I've been trying to make a second disk of tunes for my father. It turns my stomach in knots. If I want to keep any cuts, I have to essentially surrender.
On the other hand, strangely, the places I go, and the people I play with, and the listeners, are so greatful to have a fiddler in the house, it's nearly embarrassing.

I can't believe how rude people must be elsewhere. All I can say.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 01/23/2021:  15:00:35


I take every bit of feedback a different way. If the giver is nothing more than a Don Rickles I either give them a dirty look or I laugh if the insult is genuinely funny. If the feedback is beneficial I do my best to take it into account. If the feedback giver is able to play the proverbial pants off me, I thank them for the analysis. In any event, I am usually pretty aware of how good or bad I am at any given moment. I work like a dog in the effort to improve my craft.

ChickenMan - Posted - 01/23/2021:  17:16:38


I'll ask band mates and other players who I like as peers or superiors, but otherwise who's criticizing anyone? It is rare. The only thing I get is "you oughta play thus and such" or "you should listen to more of what's it" type of thing.

sbhikes2 - Posted - 01/23/2021:  17:26:08


I'll admit that criticism hurts but I try not to react and to just accept that I need to learn better, try harder, not do whatever I'm doing wrong. I can't always stop doing whatever I'm doing wrong though.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 01/23/2021:  18:22:53


I guess my main point, concerning how i feel...and your first instinct is to figure there must be others who think along the same way...whatever anybody says, good or bad, it would be hard to make me do things any differently, because I love playing however I can or want to. I've never been that affected by criticism of anything, music or othewise, although it sometimes can sting a little. Harassment, yes, I'm affected by that...I'm destroyed by that...but I've never been musically harassed...I'm talking just people saying you don't bow it right, you don't play that song right, you're going too slow, you've got the melody wrong, you're just flatout playing that wrong, that kinda thing.
And people sometimes do say similar things...well, the BG community has seemed to want to tutor me...lol...which I'm just resistant to and instantly stop enjoying myself...and...I don't see myself as really wanting to listen to that...rather just have my fun and play music anyway I can. Tell me I'm doing it all wrong...ok...thanks for sharing your opinion, but I'm having so much fun it's ok with me if I do it wrong.

Flat_the_3rd_n7th - Posted - 01/23/2021:  19:51:32


A fellow blockader once told me I was too greedy, cutting too early into heads and too deep into tails, thus compromising traditional standards and pushing my craft towards pop-skull bush likker. I was much obliged for his observation.


Edited by - Flat_the_3rd_n7th on 01/23/2021 19:52:13

farmerjones - Posted - 01/23/2021:  20:41:10


Yep, playing them fills sounds to me like a smart-alec kid. Always chirping and talking over the others. So I sat back and played chords. I got, "hey, where the heck are you?" And "c'mon, let's hear that fiddle!" So. . . .

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 01/24/2021:  05:07:27


Sometimes you can't win.

Oops, I forgot about the time in college when I played a banjo and a buncha guys told me how wrongly I played the banjo. A few years later, when I got my hands on another banjo, I tried to learn the scrugg's rolls that those guys told me you have to do or you're being an embarrassingly bad banjo player...lol...by that point, I threw that whole idea out and went back to playing my own way...Scruggs might be one good way, but it ain't for me, I finally got brave enough to realize...but that one hurt bad, and took years for me to come back to terms on the banjo in my own way. Maybe that one experience was what helped me not care whatever anybody else thinks about my playing...lol...don't know. All I remember was how bad they embarrassed me over my banjo playing and how stupid I felt.

banjopaolo - Posted - 01/24/2021:  06:16:40


I think that mostly dependance on wich is the situation, I’m a music teacher and I always try to be nice with my students and encourage them by appreciating their work, but of course I must also tell them when I see something tnat they could do better in another way...

Sometimes it happened me ti ask for advices on my playing to more expert musician (when I started playing banjo about 15 years ago I had many help from italian banjo picker Silvio Ferretti)

In other context I never criticize or give unasked advices, expecially here where I meet people I don’t know at all! If I listen something I dislike I just don’t write... it’s so simple!

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 01/24/2021:  07:41:20


yes, it is that simple, seems to me. If you have a teacher, you are there for advice. If you play anywhere else, you're not necessarily asking for advice willy-nilly...some people might like it and some might not...which is ok. If I comment on someone else's playing, I'm well aware that I could inadvertently quench their fire and take that joy away from them by my comments...if they ask for my advice...I hope to try to carefully explain that I know nothing but have opinions that get me through ... but to me, everyone who plays has some serious soul put into it, otherwise would they play at all? Maybe that soul speaks to some listeners, maybe not to all.  Nobody should ever mess with that...lol...leave that alone.


Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 01/24/2021 07:42:50

rosinhead - Posted - 01/24/2021:  07:48:05


quote:

Originally posted by banjopaolo





In other context I never criticize or give unasked advices, expecially here where I meet people I don’t know at all! If I listen something I dislike I just don’t write... it’s so simple!






This is my approach too, Paolo.  My mother taught me early on...if you don't have anything nice to say, then say nothing at all.



Like farmerjones said, I am my worst critic.



I appreciate compliments, but I don't feel there is anything negative someone could point out that I'm not aware of already.  I am more inclined to ask advice from those whose playing I admire in order to overcome my weaknesses.  My reaction to a negative comment depends on who it is coming from.



 

pmiller510 - Posted - 01/24/2021:  07:54:17


Feedback is Ok, but it really depends on who it's coming from. If it comes from someone I don't know there is no context for me. If it's some one I respect as a musician then it can make sense to me. (or it least I'll try to figure out the sense of it.) Otherwise it's kind of like the internet and I don't know if the information is valid or not. Anyway, best feedback has come from people who had experience teaching, in workshops or whatever, and had some idea about what to look for and comment on. And, by the way, we're really good at their respective instruments. Stray comments at a jam?? Not all that meaningful in general, though I'm sure there is something to be gleaned there occasionally.

Earworm - Posted - 01/24/2021:  08:49:06


In the context of judging for high school speech contests, I was told to try to give students 3 positive comments for each negative one, and to be specific. I find it to be good advice for life.

Old Scratch - Posted - 01/24/2021:  09:40:51


Peggy, I'm surprised by the content of your initial post for a couple of reasons: 1) I think your playing is wonderful, based on what I hear from your youtube videos, and can't imagine why you would encounter so much criticism - now, I'm not an aficionado of what I think of broadly as 'Southern fiddling', so maybe I'm missing something, or maybe there are a lot of people that play a similar style - but I haven't heard them; 2) I've never experienced nor witnessed people delivering blunt criticism of someone's fiddling to their face, outside of a workshop, where it's a teacher-student situation. A few times in my earlier years, I had comments that I realize in retrospect were indirect criticisms (didn't get through my thick skull at the time, though, unfortunately); e.g., "You play that one pretty fast" (i.e., too fast for your ability), "That's a hard one" (stick to the easy ones for now), etc.

Maybe you have an open, friendly, somewhat-vulnerable demeanour that appeals to blowhards and bullies. I seem to have a stern and miserable look that keeps people at their distance ... !

sbhikes2 - Posted - 01/24/2021:  12:17:22


I have witnessed blunt criticism to my face. Maybe Peggy has also. Nobody on the internets would witness that. It hurts even if it is true, maybe because it is so rude.



I do not know Peggy at all. She seems really nice and not abrasive, but I do not know her or how people in her circle of real people see her. Maybe some people don't like her because she is nice or because she is a good musician. Who knows?



I think people don't like me because I'm not afraid to step up and make a decision or speak the truth while everybody else is cowering and afraid.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 01/24/2021:  12:37:49


I'm not meaning to whine about criticism, here...that's not my point. I've had my share, but I've had more compliments than I'll ever deserve too, so...my point was just that I was wondering how people think of it...when you get criticism or compliments either one...how does that affect your playing...or does it at all? If somebody said your playing was terrible, would you stop playing? Or is your love of playing too strong to let yourself listen that much? Also, if somebody compliments you...what does that do to your playing...help, or maybe hurt?



But yeah...I'm not whining here, just wondering. i've had some strange comments that quasi-amused me, puzzled me and surprised me just at the local BG jams around here. That shouldn't be too surprising, because BG just isn't my thing, so I'm sure I don't play in any way they expect. I had one guy tell me I could never know Cowboy Waltz, as he led a jam where nobody could know it...I joined him because I did know it...he seemed upset that I knew it...I was puzzled by his reaction ... I mean...what????? How can you sit there and say nobody could know this one but you???? Does that mean the rest of us are supposed to pretend we don't know it???  I don't get it.  LOL...weird.



But just by my musings here and wondering how others feel about this (I don't know any other musicians in person at the moment)...then...well, really online is the only way I hear people's stuff...then I wonder how my reaction to people's music affects their playing, if it even does...or should it? How personal to you is what you play on the fiddle or other instruments...how much are you affected by what anybody thinks or says about it? Just thinking aloud here.



Diane, I have the same problem as you...sometimes I speak up when it would be more socially acceptable to say nothing...lol...I just talk too much. Maybe that's the problem with the BG jams...don't talk, just play. But usually concerning anybody's music...I feel it's a sensitive area and wonder what effect what we say or how we react might have...I would never wanna take that away from somebody. I really miss the old jams from back home...we didnt' care how anybody played...we just found a way to have fun playing together and that's all we wanted.


Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 01/24/2021 12:39:18

Old Scratch - Posted - 01/24/2021:  13:03:48


All compliments gladly accepted. Back in my busking days, a young woman on her way home from work - she was wearing a hard-hat - said to me, "Your music blesses me". Still makes me feel good.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 01/24/2021:  13:46:40


Yes, for sure, Old Scratch. When somebody says something like that, you feel like you're actually giving someone the gift of music when you play. That's awesome.



To clarify my comment about saying something not so socially acceptable...I can think of one example that really happened...regarding Hillary Clinton drinking blood in the basement of the pizza shop. I mean, I have to speak up in those situations...whatever somebody thinks of H.C., maybe don't like her policies, her ideas, her clothes, her personality...let's be truthful about it...if for some reason you don't like her, but that doesn't mean you can say she drinks blood in the basement of the pizza hut. I think it's not good for people or society in general for people to choose their reasons for disapproval or even approval of something or someone by believing ridiculous things instead of confronting the real reasons, head-on, for their disliking of the person or thing. I can't sit quiet when I'm around that sort of thing...in person or online...have to speak up...you're not confronting your own reason if you choose to accept ridiculous lies and conspiracy and base opinions on that. No...I can't be quiet...that's what I meant. I don't say bad stuff about people's music though. I don't have to always like it, but I can appreciate what it took to do it and what it means to others.


Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 01/24/2021 13:47:53

RB-1 - Posted - 01/24/2021:  13:53:09


quote:

Originally posted by banjopaolo

Sometimes it happened me ti ask for advices on my playing to more expert musician (when I started playing banjo about 15 years ago I had many help from italian banjo picker Silvio Ferretti)






You mean, the guy I'm talking to in this picture?



What a wonderful day out, back in Oct. 2002, a guided tour through Portofino.



Now I see, I was starting to loose my hair too...laugh



groundhogpeggy - Posted - 01/24/2021:  13:56:32


That's a really beautiful looking spot you guys were in.

LukeF - Posted - 01/24/2021:  14:31:03


Being on the receiving end of criticism hurts but it makes me want to improve.



I generally don't criticize anyone in my bluegrass jam group but there was one time where the bass player was so far off he couldn't find the right notes. I couldn't help myself and blurted out "just stick with the 1 and 5 notes on each chord" . In retrospect I should have been kinder and gentler.



I like Earthworm's advice 7 posts above.


Edited by - LukeF on 01/24/2021 14:32:08

ChickenMan - Posted - 01/24/2021:  16:18:41


My reaction to feedback is to wince and glare in the direction of the sound guy, or yell "Turn it UP!" depending on the situation. laugh

farmerjones - Posted - 01/24/2021:  18:26:06


quote:

Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

 - I had one guy tell me I could never know Cowboy Waltz, as he led a jam where nobody could know it...I joined him because I did know it...he seemed upset that I knew it...I was puzzled by his reaction ... I mean...what????? How can you sit there and say nobody could know this one but you???? Does that mean the rest of us are supposed to pretend we don't know it???  I don't get it.  LOL...weird.






I know that guy. He's a meatball. 



He has a relative that calls out tunes in F, then gets chapped when you play along. One time he even modulated to F#. I said that's not F#. He said yes it is. I said you're playing in F#, but your girlfriend ain't singing in F#.  LOL  

banjopaolo - Posted - 01/24/2021:  22:38:47


quote:

Originally posted by RB-1

quote:

Originally posted by banjopaolo

Sometimes it happened me ti ask for advices on my playing to more expert musician (when I started playing banjo about 15 years ago I had many help from italian banjo picker Silvio Ferretti)






You mean, the guy I'm talking to in this picture?



What a wonderful day out, back in Oct. 2002, a guided tour through Portofino.



Now I see, I was starting to loose my hair too...laugh








Of course he’s the man! Great friend... I own two banjos crafted by him, love those instruments....

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 01/25/2021:  06:38:49


I've been having trouble pinning down my exact question here I'm trying to get at...just wondering aloud on this but curious if others have any thoughts...but the gist I think I was trying to get at, having trouble doing that too...is...how much of our music is relative to our surroundings and our interactions with others? That's the gist of it.

Then, a big part of my life playing my guitar, when that's all I had, was spent back in the woods where I didn't see people much, except when we went to town. Then, I had a lot of jamming and a lot of little local amateur volunteer "performing," if you wanna call that, opportunities. Some people from chicago moved in down the road from us one time, our nearest neighbors...and the guy had been a bluegrass musician in chicago, among his other real jobs...lol...anyway he always said, "Why are you here back in these woods by yourself playing?" They thought we should move to a big city and I should get up on a stage and play all the time. Well, we did move to a...not a big city I guess but an area just on the outskirts of a city...I find myself sitting alone, only not in the woods...lol..playing. No gigs...just playing. I've asked myself many times why do I sit and play? Or think about it and want to? I've got other things to do so it's always a conflict, finding the time to concentrate on playing something...so...why don't I just drop it all and give myself a little bit of freedom to do things without always feeling like I'm just squeezing everything else in?

Then, there's youtube. I love recording, but when youtube was threatening to sweep with robots and fine anybody 42,000 per video that violated their ridiculous-and-impossible-to- meet demands to help them avoid target advertising to kids...I was all set to drop my youtube channel to avoid our lives being ruined by my music...lol. The rules they set to avoid kids on your channel were so wide-sweepingly ridiculous...I mean, anything could be considered soemthing that would catch some kids' eyes...anything, really. So when I decided I should drop youtube before we could possibly become homeless from the fines...I found myself really feeling depressed over that...like...ok, I can play my music by myself...but back home I could always meet up and jam with lots of people, always knew there would be some community or church functions going on where I could play. Up here, I know there's always youtube so I can just put my recording efforts out there.

So back to the question...how does anybody's music become affected by whoever might hear it? Are we looking for approval? Or do we maybe find it interesting to see why we get criticism? How does it affect our playing? I know it affects our playing that we've been exposed to modern pop and rock and all that...can't avoid that...I see it as contamination. I think we've all got that sort of contamination....lol. But, well, if youtube stopped, and I found myself REALLY playing alone...no jams, no gigs, no youtube...how would that affect my playing? Because it seems to me however ridiculous that sounds...I'd be working hard at it anyway...lol...though maybe depressed at not being able to share it with anyone else.

Just thoughts I was pondering...I still can't put it into words. I'm not whining or any of that, just wondering about how it all works...why do people go through it? Secretly, I've thought many times in my life to drop music and have no instruments around me. It's like a big conflict thing...takes up my time and I'm always so busy keeping up with other stuff...life stuff...like dirty dishes, cooking, being with family, garden, also other things I used to like to do but just don't have time for anymore...I always thought how liberating to not be chained to my instruments and have time to do the other things. But ... I can't let go of it...I think nothing could make me stop playing and very little, if anything could make me change how I do play.

I think I have a hard time expressing myself with words...lol. Not sure it makes sense, still...but anyway...the best I can say it, for now.

Earworm - Posted - 01/25/2021:  09:06:43


"...So back to the question...how does anybody's music become affected by whoever might hear it? Are we looking for approval? Or do we maybe find it interesting to see why we get criticism?..."



- - - -



I guess I look at the approval-vs-criticism way of interacting with other musicians as a little flat. I mean,  there is so much more to gain from human interactions - I like to consider others as mirrors, of a sort, that help you see and hear what your effect is as you make music. And of course there is so much to enjoy in the way music played together multiplies joy. The finest compliment I ever receive, though, is to see someone's toe tapping as I play. Most other comments can be taken simply on a take-it-or-leave-it basis.



I also think you need to exercise a little self love, and know that you are enough just as you are. We're all a little lonely for each other right now. We may as well enjoy what  advantages there are to "independent study," and we'll come out stronger on the other side.


Edited by - Earworm on 01/25/2021 09:18:27

Old Scratch - Posted - 01/25/2021:  10:00:40


@Groundhogpeggy   I know what you mean ... I think.



There seem to be a lot of people who play only for their own enjoyment, literally: they have no desire for an audience or musical-fellowship of any kind; they want to be left alone with no one around just to play. Then there are those for whom at least the idea of an audience or musical-fellowship is essential to the satisfaction they get from playing music. You're obviously of that type, and so am I. I started out performing as a singer as a child, and have continued ever since, although rarely these days - even pre-pandemic. Anyway, the only time I sing now is when I'm performing or getting ready for a performance; otherwise, I don't practise or learn new songs, because no one would want to hear any song that I would want to learn, so I stick with the same-ol' same-ol', which keeps them happy. But for many years, I worked on the songs that really moved me, buoyed by the fantasy that someday I'd be sharing them. I've outgrown that. Also, I got my harmonica-playing to a respectable level, and did some professional playing (not full-time) off and on over the years, but, again, nobody much wanted to listen to or play along with what I wanted to play, and, gradually, I lost interest myself, and now only use the harp to play little fills and breaks when I'm performing; otherwise, never touch it. And now I just play fiddle - I have a level of competence that I'm aiming for that I'll probably never reach, so that keeps me going, I guess. But for me, it is bound up with the fantasy of playing for and/or with other people. It's utterly impractical, when I think of how little public fiddling I've done in the past or am likely to do in the future, but ... it's the nature of the beast.



I've done some recording, both at home and in the studio, in the past, but eventually decided it wasn't a wise use of my time. So ... I suppose I don't have anything helpful or useful to say, but I've never let that stop me before .....


Edited by - Old Scratch on 01/25/2021 10:03:06

farmerjones - Posted - 01/25/2021:  10:22:32


When one gets to playing and jamming, one runs into types. Have a close friend, plays better than Doc Watson. He did the band thing, in his younger days. Between his point of view and the other players point of view, he gave it up. He didn't jam much either. One time we were discussing ability. He said he was just good enough to drive himself crazy. I felt a kindred spirit. There's enough, just to get together with a few close friends and make music. Stage stuff and performance stuff is okay if we're making folks happy, but the monkeying around part that's always part of it, doesn't make it more attractive than just picking with close friends.



The discussion of playing by myself or with others, to me, there's no comparison. Yes, I can and have done the guitar playing solo singer thing, for money, but not nearly as enjoyable as at least another buddy.  Playing piano and singing seems more 'complete.' For lack of a better  word.  My friends aren't familiar with piano so I don't force it on them.  I hate playing solo so much, I learned five instruments and got an 8 track studio. I still sounds lonely to me.  It still, to me, doesn't replace even a duo. 


Edited by - farmerjones on 01/25/2021 10:41:12

pete_fiddle - Posted - 01/25/2021:  11:47:22


I've learned to filter BS over the years, actually there has not been much of it......or i just don't remember it? And cherish well intentioned criticism. Even if it comes from folk who don't play. I've had comments like "You should slacken your bow a bit" (from a non player). Which i interpreted later as, "You're not relaxed enough"...Which was true...Then i've had unsolicited advice from good players on how to hold the bow and move my fingers etc, saying " There, that'll do you for a few years"...And i'm still trying......It's all fine by me, and part of the learning curve.

DougBrock - Posted - 01/25/2021:  12:16:45


I briefly played fiddle a decade or so ago but quit because I just didn’t have the time. I have more time now and have started again (pretty much from scratch). I’ve been trying to get in a little practice each evening and this past weekend, when my 3-year-old granddaughter was visiting, she went into the music room and kept trying to get me to play with her. I told her, “Grandpa needs to practice this violin for a little while.” She looked at me, looked at the violin, then pointed at the violin and said, “You need to practice. This is” and then she made a raspberry sound with her tongue (not sure how to better describe it!). I said, “What???” She then repeated her comment and the sound effect!

When we were later upstairs with Grandma, I told her what our granddaughter had said and the sound effect. Our granddaughter just responded, “I just want him to get better!” :)

TuneWeaver - Posted - 01/25/2021:  12:22:57


quote:

Originally posted by DougBrock

I briefly played fiddle a decade or so ago but quit because I just didn’t have the time. I have more time now and have started again (pretty much from scratch). I’ve been trying to get in a little practice each evening and this past weekend, when my 3-year-old granddaughter was visiting, she went into the music room and kept trying to get me to play with her. I told her, “Grandpa needs to practice this violin for a little while.” She looked at me, looked at the violin, then pointed at the violin and said, “You need to practice. This is” and then she made a raspberry sound with her tongue (not sure how to better describe it!). I said, “What???” She then repeated her comment and the sound effect!



When we were later upstairs with Grandma, I told her what our granddaughter had said and the sound effect. Our granddaughter just responded, “I just want him to get better!” :)






laughSounds like your granddaughter knows good music when (if)  she hears it!!.. My own children, who all took Suzuki lessons, were quick to tell me when I was out of tune.....and still do, as adults..wink



 

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 01/25/2021:  13:39:31


Just wondering, from my own thoughts and experience...not whining, as I said...lol...just thinking...maybe sort of the same thing, are they?

boxbow - Posted - 01/25/2021:  15:28:56


I'd as soon not think about what some bystander might think. At festivals they probably enjoy something of what they might hear from me. Out in the general population, like busking, most are probably indifferent and few are fans. What makes my motor go vroom vroom is when you and your pals knock out a tune, end on the same note, and the players burst into spontaneous happy laughter.

TuneWeaver - Posted - 01/25/2021:  15:41:32


quote:

Originally posted by boxbow

I'd as soon not think about what some bystander might think. At festivals they probably enjoy something of what they might hear from me. Out in the general population, like busking, most are probably indifferent and few are fans. What makes my motor go vroom vroom is when you and your pals knock out a tune, end on the same note, and the players burst into spontaneous happy laughter.






Wait... WAIT!!!..... Walter,  You mentioned BUSKING... Busking is my Life..really.. are YOU a busker? If Not... my mistake.. If SO.. lets compare notes.... I'm 'chompin' at the bit' to get out on a street corner.. !!


Edited by - TuneWeaver on 01/25/2021 15:42:49

ChickenMan - Posted - 01/25/2021:  16:29:37


quote:

Originally posted by boxbow

What makes my motor go vroom vroom is when you and your pals knock out a tune, end on the same note, and the players burst into spontaneous happy laughter.






Mine can run for hours, nay, days on that laughter. 

Black - Posted - 01/25/2021:  16:36:04


I would love to busk, dont hàve the ba..s though;)

WyoBob - Posted - 01/25/2021:  16:40:18


The first and only time I've gotten feedback on my playing was when I started with the banjo 8 years ago.  



I started with a slow jam group, playing my banjo and one of the people there said, "you don't own a metronome, do you Bob?"  I still chuckle.  What a nice way to say, "your timing sucks".  Guess what?  My timing is much better now than the guitar player who criticized my banjo playing years ago.



Flash forward to now (well, before Covid) and I'm now playing my banjo with some really great, old time players.   That I got invited to join this great old time jam group is one of the highlights of my life.  I've gotten to the point where I can jump in and play almost any old time tune that's in G, A, C or D as long as it doesn't have weird chords or is crooked.  We always stay in one key and these folks know thousands of tunes.  I know about 70 tunes that I can play on the banjo but, I seem to be able to fake my way through the sessions.  I played three sessions with them where I only knew 4 or 5 of the tunes.  I amazed myself, for sure, that I could figure out how to play with these amazing folks.



I have not played my fiddle with this group and am really hesitant to even try but, as I'm not playing with them during the epidemic and am just playing my fiddle at home, I hope to spring my fiddle playing on them in the, hopefully not too distant future.   Maybe I'll get booted from the group if I try playing with my fiddle.surprise



I've played my fiddle with a couple of folks from the original slow jam group and gotten along fine.  My fiddle buddy who took up the banjo and wants to play along with me, playing my fiddle seems to enjoy it and it's been fun but, he's never said, "wow, good job on the fiddle" so I guess I have a ways to go.

TuneWeaver - Posted - 01/25/2021:  16:42:38


quote:

Originally posted by Black

I would love to busk, dont hàve the ba..s though;)






Lets talk... The public, frankly, doesn't care.. !!! If you are there they'll  love it even if they don't listen, and believe me,.. They DON"T listen... They pay for the spectacle..!!!  That is why I busk with a rabbit.. but when I did busking ALONE, they paid for the IDEA that there was someone playing a fiddle on the street corner.. It is not about YOU , ,it is about the IDEA of what YOU bring to the neighborhood...wink

sbhikes2 - Posted - 01/25/2021:  16:47:56


I'll tell you exactly how it affects me to receive criticism or praise. First, with praise, I don't believe a word of it. I like it, it makes me feel good, but it changes nothing.

Criticism changes lots of things.

I am taking violin lessons. Some days my teacher gives me praise and it feels good, I like it, it stops me from quitting, but it doesn't change anything. Other days my teacher is almost mean to me. It hurts, I feel bad, sometimes I decide it's hopeless, I just can't do this, I will finish out the month and then I'll quit. But I also feel determined to try harder, to see if I can do whatever it is I'm doing wrong. I can't always do it, but I try. It's what I paid for even if it hurts.

The other day I was doing an exercise and I got criticism from my partner. It really hurt a lot. I was very angry. I was going to quit violin forever. I felt like all I can do in this goddam relationship is shrink until I'm really tiny. I told him (he is retired and I am not), "I work all day every day to provide you heath insurance, is there anything else I can do for you that makes me really small but still of service to you?" I was pissed. I wanted to vomit. I felt that way for several days. The day after that I was trying to cook dinner and I kept dropping the food on the floor and I got so mad I threw the food across the kitchen. I went to my room and refused to talk about it. I am still angry. All I can do is sneak a little practice time here and there. The man never leaves the house. He NEVER F-ING LEAVES the G-D house! I work all day long in my room (because of COVID) and if I was retired I would be living on the Appalachian Trail or something. Having adventures. I wouldn't just sit around and get mad at people essentially in a prison of work trying to squeak out a little bit of life. So I told my teacher that my partner doesn't like it when I do exercises, he doesn't like to hear me practice, but he never leaves the house so this is going to be very slow, it's going to take me a long time to learn, I'll probably never learn some things because all I can manage is a minute here, a minute there, maybe a half hour if he does leave the house. She said I should give him earplugs for Christmas. Ironically I gave him headphones for Christmas.

Sorry to unload but this has been bothering me for a month now. But it's how criticism affects me really truthfully.

WyoBob - Posted - 01/25/2021:  17:12:54


Sorry to hear this, Diane.



I'm very blessed to have a partner of 52 years( this March) who loves to hear me play--(mostly old time banjo) but she's starting to like the fiddle, too.



When I started the banjo 8 years ago, I left the door to the practice room closed for several months.  One day, I got done with the banjo and went to leave and the door was open.  I could have sworn I'd closed it.  I asked my wife about it and she said that I started sounding pretty OK so she opened the door.    When I took up the fiddle a year and a half ago, the door stayed shut for a couple of weeks and the same thing happened.  The door was open.   I thought then that maybe I could actually learn how to play the fiddle.   I either wore her down or she's really started to enjoy my fiddle playing.   Miracles never cease.smiley



(BTW, we have a pretty big house so she can avoid my playing anytime she wants to.)



 

pmiller510 - Posted - 01/25/2021:  17:35:46


If this is your basic question:
"how does anybody's music become affected by whoever might hear it? Are we looking for approval? Or do we maybe find it interesting to see why we get criticism? How does it affect our playing?"

I don't know about all the stuff that makes me feel the way I do when I hear comments about my playing (seems to be hugely subjective based on how I'm feeling at the time, who it is, their skill level, their personal level of friendliness or obnoxiousness, etc. etc.)

But I know how it affects my playing. Negative or positive, it always makes me try hard to be better. If it's complimentary then I work hard to at least maintain the level I'm playing at and it inspires me to think I'm on the right path. If it's a negative comment then it makes me try harder to get better so I don't hear the comment again. But it's always a push.

It also causes me to reflect on my playing. Why did it sound good? What was it that made the really good lead fiddler at the session say, "You've really got the bowing down on that tune." What was it that made those people start tapping their feet or clap at the end of tune when they sat silently for the others. And there's nothing like having little kids start bouncing up and down. The other side is what went wrong; like, why didn't the fellow next to me not recognize John Brown's Dream when I led it off? All this has happened to me in the last year (before Covid curtailed jams around here, anyway.)

Anyway, I think that's about as clear as I can be about how comments affects my playing.

I'm sure that I'm looking for approval, after all who wants to sound bad; but I play with my own goals in mind and also because I have to. Otherwise it would be much easier to just quit the whole mess. I mean, fiddle is by far the toughest instrument I play. I've been perfectly adequate on guitar and banjo for years and never really felt a need to learn fiddle but then all the good fiddlers moved out of the immediate area a few years back. So, if I wanted to hear the sound I liked, it appeared that I was going to have to produce it myself. I love the sound of old-time fiddle and am working to play it at a competent level.

Quincy - Posted - 01/25/2021:  17:59:09


I just dropped a video here, in the hope of feedback, I see feedback often as a gift or present you get.
I value technique and knowledge and it makes me happy to get feedback, if it sounds like 'negative' I see it for what it is: if it can open my eyes it is good criticism. Had one comment on another forum: "man what do you have your bow hairs tightened up! :(", I assure you this one had immediate effect, never made that mistake again. Coming from the same poster: "Your shoulder is completely locked! :( " Short , but powerful 'negative' comment , but I assure these were the comments I valued most.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 01/25/2021:  18:33:56


Diane, first, I'm sorry you're having a hard time at home. I know the working from home and everything puts a lot of stress on people and so many are about to pop.

Anyway...I think you actually answered my question here...my original question i kept trying to put into words but couldn't seem to. With all the difficulty, no peace and quiet, no chance to practice, no time to yourself or time away from citicism...you still WANT TO PLAY. There's the answer...well, maybe not entirely the answer, but, whatever obstacles, people still love to play and you cannot stop them.

I hope things get more peaceful at your house. And I would suggest that you try to get yourself a cheapie electric fiddle. Somebody gave me one they didn't like...it's crappy and cheap and hard to play...but, we live in a very small house and there's really no place for me to play without making a buncha noise that can be heard all over the house...so I sometmes get that little cheap plastic electric fiddle.... play it with a mute on it to boot...the house just stays quieter for the dogs and hubby...

I do hope things get calmer and better for you.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 01/25/2021:  21:31:22


The wife (who actually has a Masters Degree in Music) loves my guitar playing but sneers at my feeble, relentless piano and fiddle stylings. The piano now lives in a dedicated room out in the garage. Luckily, fiddles are portable enough for me to escape to the patio & backyard.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 01/26/2021:  05:10:44


I do most of my playing outside when the weather is good. Now, though, here in the past few years, we have neighbors who hang around drunk shooting willy-nilly and it gets kinda scary, also they complain and say they'll call the cops if you make noise...the cops won't do anything about them, but knowing my luck, they'd haul me in in handcuffs for my fiddling if somebody called...lol...so...but anyway, I do try to play outside whenever I can do that.


Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 01/26/2021 05:11:53

Page: 1  2  

Hide these ads: join the Players Union!

Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.109375