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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Violinists, help me with bowing directions on this piece please?


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/54408

Randy Rosinbow - Posted - 12/14/2020:  12:04:57


Could someone help me with the bowing directions on this song? For instance, after measure 4 should I pick up the bow to reset for the downbeat of measure 5?


TuneWeaver - Posted - 12/14/2020:  13:19:32


I'm no expert but I'd say YES..

Brian Wood - Posted - 12/14/2020:  14:37:59


quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

I'm no expert but I'd say YES..






I agree. And since there's a quarter rest there it's easy to do.

TuneWeaver - Posted - 12/14/2020:  14:43:26


So.. I think that TWO non experts count as on Expert, right Brian?

fiddlinsteudel - Posted - 12/14/2020:  14:50:25


You could also start the next phrase with an upbow and slur the first two notes to get it back on track. I think either way would be fine. The tune doesn't seem like it requires a strong downbeat, so an upbow would be fine I think. --Another non-expert opinion


Edited by - fiddlinsteudel on 12/14/2020 14:55:16

Brian Wood - Posted - 12/14/2020:  15:26:21


quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

So.. I think that TWO non experts count as on Expert, right Brian?






That makes me feel important!

TuneWeaver - Posted - 12/14/2020:  15:41:59


quote:

Originally posted by Brian Wood

quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

So.. I think that TWO non experts count as on Expert, right Brian?






That makes me feel important!






I"ve been impotent for years..

buckhenry - Posted - 12/14/2020:  17:52:52


Good opportunity to practice the 'upbow retake'.



Also at bars 8,10,16, 17, 18 and the last bar if you want to repeat.


Edited by - buckhenry on 12/14/2020 18:05:21

sbhikes2 - Posted - 12/14/2020:  18:25:29


quote:

Originally posted by Brian Wood

quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

I'm no expert but I'd say YES..






I agree. And since there's a quarter rest there it's easy to do.






Speak for yourself!

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 12/14/2020:  19:40:47


Yes, you should replace the bow so you can have a down bow on the first beat. It’s a 4/4 tune, so beat 1 gets the strongest emphasis.



I wouldn’t start measure 5 with an up bow because it begins a new phrase. The same is true with the first measure of each line. 


Edited by - The Violin Beautiful on 12/14/2020 19:42:09

Cyndy - Posted - 12/14/2020:  22:08:01


What about slurring from B to D in the third and seventh measures?

Astrang - Posted - 12/15/2020:  00:05:53


Maybe try an up/up bow thing. Slur the B&D on a downbow, slur the C&B on the first up, and the A on the second up. That would sound good and set you up for the next downbow.

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 12/15/2020:  10:47:45


You could put a slur in, but it’s not generally a good idea to end a phrase on an up bow, as that makes the strongest beat weaker.

Cyndy - Posted - 12/15/2020:  11:01:38


I'm thinking it might depend on the genre? I'm an old-time player and so I can't speak to anything else, but for me, ending a phrase on an up bow works really well because I can come into the next phrase with a strong down bow.

buckhenry - Posted - 12/15/2020:  13:12:44


You could put slurs in all over the place and reverse the bowing, but obviously the OP is a beginner, and those bowings could be learnt after learning the basic bowing of 'upbow retakes' in the appropriate place to prepare for a down bow on the strongest beat. And, this tune sounds like a Hymn which he wants to play in church real soon.

Astrang - Posted - 12/15/2020:  13:56:43


He is not a beginner! A few days ago he posted a list of the tunes he plays with some good ole old time hard ones on the list.

What is an upbow retake?

DougD - Posted - 12/15/2020:  14:03:08


On his homepage here, Randy4string describes himself as a "novice."

buckhenry - Posted - 12/15/2020:  14:45:55


quote:

Originally posted by Astrang

He is not a beginner!






Sorry, I just assumed he is a beginner by the nature of his question.



quote:





Originally posted by Randy4string



 



 should I pick up the bow to reset for the downbeat



 

quote:






Originally posted by Astrang





What is an upbow retake?



 



This is when the bow is taken off the string after a down bow. The bow is then moved 'up' without touching the string so that the next bow movement can be a 'down bow on the strong beat'.  




Randy Rosinbow - Posted - 12/15/2020:  15:14:14


I am a beginner on fiddle. Been playing for a year and two months, and just having a great time with it. Been a guitar player since I was a kid and picked up banjo and pedal steel later. Fiddle has been the most challenging instrument I have tackled, but I am pretty obsessed with it and getting a lot of enjoyment from being a beginner and learning something new. A big Thanks to all of you for the advice!

Randy Rosinbow - Posted - 12/15/2020:  22:45:14


Here's my progress so far: youtube.com/watch?v=0qrBI_d9fYQ

bulltrout - Posted - 12/16/2020:  08:29:38


I’d try it several ways and decide which sounds the best to you.it seems like a tune where you could emphasize phrasing—separating the melody into cohesive parts that could have different bowing and dynamics.

Dick Hauser - Posted - 12/18/2020:  07:50:14


I'll bet this is a slow tune. The 5th measure is a dotted half note followed by a rest. I would just keep the up/down pattern in the 4th measure "going".

Over time I have stopped relying as much on the downbow. I often use a slur to change bow direction. In fact, I often bow a tune differently each time I play it. Whatever makes the music sound best.

Earworm - Posted - 12/25/2020:  08:56:18


I have never removed my bow from my strings. I firmly believe that while I sleep it is still going.

Brian Wood - Posted - 12/25/2020:  09:06:15


quote:

Originally posted by Dick Hauser

Over time I have stopped relying as much on the downbow. I often use a slur to change bow direction. In fact, I often bow a tune differently each time I play it. Whatever makes the music sound best.






I agree with you on that. I generally bow tunes simalarly each time, but there are places in many tunes that I play freely. Changing up the bowing makes you a more flexible player and keeps some tunes from sounding boring. I think John Hartford said something about changing bowing every few measures, and it didn't seem to hurt his playing. Vassar was another revered player who didn't seem to think it was so important how he bowed.


Edited by - Brian Wood on 12/25/2020 09:09:58

ChickenMan - Posted - 12/25/2020:  09:52:21


I agree, but would also say neither of them were dance fiddlers. Their playing was great in a bluegrass band (or any of the many genres they played) but would have been less than desirable for a dance. That is where the strong down bow is put into context, guiding the dancers to the next figure and phrase.

Brian Wood - Posted - 12/25/2020:  10:04:08


quote:

Originally posted by ChickenMan

I agree, but would also say neither of them were dance fiddlers. 




That's a good point.

banjopaolo - Posted - 12/25/2020:  10:26:44


Bowing direction can cause religion-wars!!!

Anyway I watched your video and think that you are doing well, for the speed yuo are playing resetting the bow its ok, there can be many other solution of course...



@Donna sometime to remove bow from strings can be usefull... expecially while sleeping!laugh

Brian Wood - Posted - 12/25/2020:  11:33:44


quote:

Originally posted by banjopaolo

Bowing direction can cause religion-wars!!!






More likely religion might cause bowing wars. I'm agnostic and only care how musical a fiddler sounds.

banjopaolo - Posted - 12/26/2020:  00:29:42


I’m atheist both in religion and Bowing!

banjopaolo - Posted - 01/01/2021:  07:59:57


quote:

Originally posted by ChickenMan

I agree, but would also say neither of them were dance fiddlers. Their playing was great in a bluegrass band (or any of the many genres they played) but would have been less than desirable for a dance. That is where the strong down bow is put into context, guiding the dancers to the next figure and phrase.






  I would say that for Vessar but not for Hartford: he used to dance himself while fiddling!



youtube.com/watch?v=1BI1N08FEo0

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