jdove - Posted - 08/21/2020:  06:47:44

I like to record my playing in Audacity using a Yeti microphone. I would like to buy Bluetooth headphones to listen while I play/record. The headphones I have tried have so much noise canceling or isolation I can't hear my fiddle acoustically. I have also noticed delay when recording, making the recorded music and my playing out of sync. Does anyone have a recommendation of a headphones that would allow me to hear my fiddle and not have the delay when recording.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 08/21/2020:  06:59:48

The delay is latency. Bluetooth introduces latency. Similar using any WiFi. Many noise cancellation methods also require a slight delay in order to work.

Just regular Headphones or even earbuds that you plug directly into to the Yeti should give you zero-latency.

Make sure you review the Yeti and Audacity set-up so to monitor thru the Yeti. Monitoring thru the computer system soundcard (headphones on the computer)  will not give zero latency. You have to use the Yeti.

As well, related is make sure you review how to calibrate and adjust the latency in Audacity... so the recorded tracks line up with each other.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 08/21/2020 07:05:32

pete_fiddle - Posted - 08/21/2020:  07:39:23

i got some Wireless headphones.... Not Bluetooth about £20, to listen to the radio in my workshop when the machines are running. They work fine from any 3.5mm stereo output and i can walk away about 50 or 60 yds and they still work through walls etc, and zero latency. Not exactly hifi but not bad at all for general listening and recording. They work just like wired headphones.

edit: saves being tethered to the computer and having to keep unwrapping the wire from the chin rest. and if you have a nice sounding room you can get away from the microphone and still play with the backing track or whatever

Edited by - pete_fiddle on 08/21/2020 07:46:54

alaskafiddler - Posted - 08/21/2020:  08:37:09

You are probably not actually achieving zero latency of the input if monitoring plugging the headphone through the computer. Besides things like I/O bus,, you have analog to digital, then digital to analog conversion and processing.

The idea of using the headphone on the mic like Yeti (or on interface) is that the source input is analog... no computer routing or processing.

Not sure what wireless technology is being used, and if it is truly zero latency? But how much advantage to wireless with Yeti or similar for recording; likely want to be within 2 feet or less of the mic.

FWIW, been doing a lot of tech support help for folks with tele-music; and of all the folks that keep wanting and trying to use various wireless... they all face lots of struggle with the sound, none have ever got it to work well... problems mostly disappear simply using good old plug-in headphones.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 08/21/2020 08:43:25

pete_fiddle - Posted - 08/22/2020:  00:10:08

The phones work using a 2.4Mhz or 3Mhz radio frequency and don't introduce any further latency than you get from your recording/playback device. What goes into the audio socket on the transmitter comes out of the headphones immediately, with decent(ish) quality exactly like plug in headphones albeit with slightly less quality than top of the range plug in phones. just no wire. i have bluetooth also and they are full of latency and bad sound issues and only transmit/recieve for about 10-15M if you are lucky.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 08/22/2020:  02:53:32

Didn't mean to imply there is not good quality "analog" wireless that could do zero-latency. (not sure about inexpensive consumer grade that does? check specs) - Though this reminds me of the old joke about wireless... for mere few $100s, get quality kind of "almost" as good as the $20 wired.

any further latency than you get from your recording/playback device

That was my point mentioned before, if the audio socket on device (soundcard) is your computer... then it will likely already introduce latency. The transmitter would need to be plugged into the USB mic... which might bring other issues. Batteries would be another issue to consider, how long they last, cost... going out in the middle of recording.

As I suggested... wired works pretty simple, not sure the need for wireless.

"saves being tethered to the computer and having to keep unwrapping the wire from the chin rest"

Has me a bit puzzled? Can't picture why the wire gets wrapped around chinrest? - In regard to recording/tracking... with Yeti; the general procedure is to put mic in front of you, sit or stand maybe a foot away; maintain same sitting/standing distance and direction from mic, and not move around;  headphone jack is right there in front of you on the mic, a foot away. Sure could go wireless, but I just questioned if a whole lot of advantage in this. 

Personally I would spend the same money on better sounding comfortable headphones. Probably closed for isolation, leak; or possibly IEMs. Or possibly toward other gear, mic stand, different mic... that said, just suggestions, but not my money.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 08/22/2020 03:01:12

pete_fiddle - Posted - 08/22/2020:  03:37:03

Batteries are rechargeable from the transmitter dock, and last about a day, sound quality is about the same as cheap wired phones but still usable at the same price, they are closed phones, i paid around 20 GBP. i think Sennheiser make very expensive ones using similar wireless tech. Advantages over Bluetooth and wired phones are, reasonable sound quality, not being tethered to a device, zero latency, long battery life, and around 50 or 60 yards range if you want it? through walls and all. Dont know anything about Yeti latency though....

 edit: onboard volume control as well...

Not my money either...

Edited by - pete_fiddle on 08/22/2020 03:41:04

alaskafiddler - Posted - 08/22/2020:  06:29:57

The Yeti has direct analog monitoring, so zero-latency; just like many USB mic's on the market today used for multi-track recording; which I gathered was the OP plan. Thee process you are within arms reach. Also already has volume control on the mic.

Maybe I'm missing something, you seem to be referring to something other than, or rather moot to that type of recording process?

-----

Speaking of wireless; I found a wireless keyboard/touchpad very useful.

DougD - Posted - 08/22/2020:  06:31:37

Two different ballparks here: jdove is trying to record with his Yeti microphone without latency, and pete wants to listen to music while moving around his shop. Sounds like he's found a good solution for that. Jdove was asking about wireless headphones and pete just described what he uses, although for a different purpose. Jdove just needs to plug directly into the Yeti, whether wired or wireless to get rid of the latency. Most interfaces have a way to blend or switch between input and the computer to avoid latency, but maybe not with USB mics.

Edited by - DougD on 08/22/2020 06:37:35

pete_fiddle - Posted - 08/22/2020:  08:26:01

i find also with using the closed wireless phones that i can listen more to what the microphone is "hearing" while the source (me), is moving about the room, or i might sit in my chair with a beer and play etc. And because they are closed i hear more of what the Mic is "hearing" and less of the fiddle under my chin. Plus i have the backing track mixed in as well, sort of makes recording a bit less of a sitting down at the computer chore, and a bit more relaxing fun. Especially with a wireless mouse/keyboard as well. But as always each to their own.

sounds like the latency with the usb mic/interface "is what it is". But with a pci card there is very little latency even using effects eq etc if i want to

Don't get me wrong i wouldn't use them for final mixing or anything serious, but they're fine for doing a bit of fun recording or practising over changes and stuff, or playing along with recordings etc. if the expensive ones are better than these they must be quite good.

bf - Posted - 09/02/2020:  06:19:09

quote:

---

Originally posted by jdove

I like to record my playing in Audacity using a Yeti microphone. I would like to buy Bluetooth headphones to listen while I play/record. The headphones I have tried have so much noise canceling or isolation I can't hear my fiddle acoustically. I have also noticed delay when recording, making the recorded music and my playing out of sync. Does anyone have a recommendation of a headphones that would allow me to hear my fiddle and not have the delay when recording.

---

Hi jdove, I know this isn't exactly what you were asking for, but here is a link for an article on measuring your latency in Audacity, and how to adjust your settings to compensate for it. manual.audacityteam.org/man/la...test.html

Sometimes I'll uncover one ear to allow me to hear the outside world better. 

Edited by - bf on 09/02/2020 06:26:01

jdove - Posted - 09/02/2020:  13:45:04

Thanks for the replies. I have come up with a solution that seems to be working. It is much as bf suggested. I have Labtec speakers and use the headphone jack with Koss CS-100 headphones. I created a click track in Audacity and then recorded it on a second track in Audacity. I set the Latency Compensation to the difference of the two click tracks. In my case it was -50ms. I can now record using a backing track, hearing the fiddle acoustically, and when I play back the tracks seem to be in sync. Thanks to alaskafiddler for bringing my attention to the headphone jack on the Blue Yeti microphone. I have had the mic for years and hadn't discovered it. BTW, the Koss CS-100 headphones with the fiddle recordings. They don't block a lot of sound and have a one sided chord. They can be purchased from Walmart.com for around $15. Again thanks for all the help.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 09/02/2020:  23:22:14

Glad to hear.

Related to this monitoring discussion, many folks want to hear their instrument acoustically (esp singers, can throw pitch off). And/or lot of folks find headphones a pain, or difficult to use, or might have monitoring live mic latency issues.  Some just play better without headphones.

Another option... is just using speaker as a monitor of just the recorded tracks; make sure you have the software mic monitoring off. (usually the default).

The new track won't ideal/perfectly clean separated; will have bit of bleed from picking up some of the previous recorded. But if minimal, might not be a problem.  Can help minimize that to a degree, an easy method put the speaker in the null spot of the mic; for typical cardioid pattern, directly behind.

For just home recording, where isolation isn't required... and a few tracks the result/noise isn't that bad.

[Another method studios use is better but bit more complex to set up; involves making L and R speaker with reverse polarity cancelation. Room/treatment is a factor as well]

catt_chas - Posted - 09/24/2020:  02:57:25

I've been producing mainly on headphones for around 15 years, I currently use Audeze LCD-X but before these I got really good results with Sennheiser HD 650

I highly recommend staying away from closed headphones as your main mixing pair if you can, not only will you avoid ear fatigue and headaches but you will also get a much more natural and consistent sound

montananmrk - Posted - 09/24/2020:  04:57:24

I have been using Trex Air by Aftershox bluetooth headphones. they were originally designed for runners to be able to hear traffic. they are bone sound transmission headphones and wrap around your ears and rest on your TMJ joint leaving your ears open for hearing your instrument

ChickenMan - Posted - 09/24/2020:  07:03:48

What is meant by "closed headphones?"

alaskafiddler - Posted - 09/24/2020:  13:45:28

Closed headphones create a bit of barrier and seal, to block sound thru air pressure... generally plastic covering over speakers. Thus greatly reduces sound from the speakers, that is heard outside the ears. (also reduce outside sound coming in).

Open headphones on the other hand have little or no barrier/seal of sound thru air pressure... so sound can be heard somewhat outside the headphone.

Because of the tight blocking of air pressure they can get fatiguing to wear for long periods of time, both physical and listening fatigue on hearing (esp if loud). Whereas open is far less fatiguing; and of course actual speakers and natural air distance even less so.

For recording, you don't want the sound from headphones bleeding into the mic. However, that means you can't acoustically hear the source (like fiddle).

But as pointed out, when mixing, different types of these monitoring will give bit different image of mix to the ears. Prolonged monitoring of any does cause ear/hearing fatigue; which can result in inaccurate mixes, ears tend to try to compensate, naturally start filtering certain things. Come back after a long break and it will sound different. So it's good to take periodic breaks.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 09/24/2020 13:48:37