Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

50
Fiddle Lovers Online


Discussion Forum

Hide these ads: join the Players Union!

 All Forums
 Playing the Fiddle
 Playing Advice
 ARCHIVED TOPIC: How SLOW can you go?


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/53917

Page: 1  2  

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/13/2020:  18:10:31


I suspect that some of you think that you lose a tune's 'flow' if you try to play slowly and that is what prompted this topic..

As I mentioned in today's Busking stories topic, I played Porter's Reel very slowly for a LONG time today.... I mean VERY slowly.. I knew that the bow-flow was the Key to getting the sound I wanted and I kept forcing myself to have Complete control of the bow/slur/cadence.. I found that at "almost" slow I sort of had it but found that from time to time I'd vary and lose 'something' in the execution.. So I went slower and slower with complete focus on the BOW.. What was the bow doing for Each note? I wanted to KNOW.... It was an enlightening experience......I can still play the tune various ways ( I AM the Tuneweaver, after alllaugh)...but found that a Dedicated way made most sense...BY slow I mean maybe 20 bpm or slower .. (didn't count).

Your comments?


Edited by - TuneWeaver on 08/13/2020 18:11:01

DougD - Posted - 08/13/2020:  18:18:48


Did your audience find that interesting?

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/13/2020:  18:21:40


I made big tips!!! I mostly did the SLOW playing when the passersby were few.. (I know where my bread is buttered..so to speak).. There was plenty of time to play slow and I'd kick it up when people came by..smiley



Tomorrow, I'll try the same thing with "Hail, Hail, THe Fun's All Over".. That may be interesting..


Edited by - TuneWeaver on 08/13/2020 18:34:54

Johnbow - Posted - 08/13/2020:  18:34:26


Great practice technique. Playing slowly (or very slowly) can be tricky to do as our ability to operate on autopilot is taken away. It really does require a ton of control. I have a metronome that will go down to 30 bpm which for traditional music is pretty darn slow.

Johnbow - Posted - 08/13/2020:  18:35:52


On another note, I plan to try busking in the near future. Big tips sounds like fun!

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/13/2020:  18:38:46



  1. quote:





Originally posted by Johnbow

Great practice technique. Playing slowly (or very slowly) can be tricky to do as our ability to operate on autopilot is taken away. It really does require a ton of control. I have a metronome that will go down to 30 bpm which for traditional music is pretty darn slow.






Thanks for the comment.. When I'm doing this the tune becomes secondary.. the 'flow' of the bow is the main focus..I'm seeking NO disruption in the feeling that my bow is 'dancing'.. Certainly, I'm no expert but I did learn a lot by challenging myself in a way that I don't do usually.. Can't wait to get on the street tomorrow with another tune.....(I'm staying with relatives and can't play in the house..so busking is my only chance to play!!)



 

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/13/2020:  19:04:55


quote:

Originally posted by Johnbow

On another note, I plan to try busking in the near future. Big tips sounds like fun!






It is always a crap shoot!!! I made just  $2 the first 1/2 hour...THEN, got three (3) $5 tips in a row within the next  ten minutes.. Ya never know.. Busking is more fun that a fiddler can imagine..It has a way of boosting your ego one minute and shattering your ego the next.. I've learned to just leave my ego in the car.. Harry Hare's ego is big enough for the two of us. (BTW, Harry Hare is my fiddle playing marionette)..Today I had fun telling college students that me and Harry had college degrees in Music Performance, and that if 'they' didn't study hard  at something different that they'd be out here on the street corner like us.. Except I told them to go to a different corner ..we don't need the competition..


Edited by - TuneWeaver on 08/13/2020 19:09:02

BR5-49 - Posted - 08/13/2020:  19:54:04


I enjoy playing slow pieces... and a variety of pieces with different tempos. The ballad tunes as airs and slower hornpipes. And marches. I've spent a lot of time on it... meaning honing the art of it as well as performing to get a slow tune over to an audience. Some of my best moments on stage have been watching tears well up in someone's eyes or watching someone close their eyes and get into a slow piece. Slow doesn't always mean quiet. Besides bow control etc., dynamics is a big part of it.

Johnbow - Posted - 08/13/2020:  21:40:01


quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

quote:

Originally posted by Johnbow

On another note, I plan to try busking in the near future. Big tips sounds like fun!






It is always a crap shoot!!! I made just  $2 the first 1/2 hour...THEN, got three (3) $5 tips in a row within the next  ten minutes.. Ya never know.. Busking is more fun that a fiddler can imagine..It has a way of boosting your ego one minute and shattering your ego the next.. I've learned to just leave my ego in the car.. Harry Hare's ego is big enough for the two of us. (BTW, Harry Hare is my fiddle playing marionette)..Today I had fun telling college students that me and Harry had college degrees in Music Performance, and that if 'they' didn't study hard  at something different that they'd be out here on the street corner like us.. Except I told them to go to a different corner ..we don't need the competition..






Turf wars for buskers!



 

Johnbow - Posted - 08/13/2020:  21:42:57


quote:

Originally posted by ShawnCraver

I enjoy playing slow pieces... and a variety of pieces with different tempos. The ballad tunes as airs and slower hornpipes. And marches. I've spent a lot of time on it... meaning honing the art of it as well as performing to get a slow tune over to an audience. Some of my best moments on stage have been watching tears well up in someone's eyes or watching someone close their eyes and get into a slow piece. Slow doesn't always mean quiet. Besides bow control etc., dynamics is a big part of it.






I think you've nailed it man - splendid tone!  Bow control, dynamics and Tone. I'm ready for your next video. 

carlb - Posted - 08/14/2020:  05:15:08


quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

I suspect that some of you think that you lose a tune's 'flow' if you try to play slowly






Yes, I do. There are slow tunes, but to slow down tunes, that I usually play at a faster tempo, loses a lot for me.

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/14/2020:  05:29:51


quote:

Originally posted by carlb

quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

I suspect that some of you think that you lose a tune's 'flow' if you try to play slowly






Yes, I do. There are slow tunes, but to slow down tunes, that I usually play at a faster tempo, loses a lot for me.






In this case my goal is to go slow only until I can develop Desired brain/bow control .Then, I'll increase speed as needed...  

Swing - Posted - 08/14/2020:  12:34:50


I will play tunes slowly, very slowly to work on my bowing...it is a great exercise in becoming more fluid and smooth...did I say frustrating at first...yep, but worth the effort

Play Happy

Swing

tonyelder - Posted - 08/14/2020:  19:05:54


quote:

Originally posted by carlb

quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

I suspect that some of you think that you lose a tune's 'flow' if you try to play slowly






Yes, I do. There are slow tunes, but to slow down tunes, that I usually play at a faster tempo, loses a lot for me.






I thought Carl's point deserved to be looked at again. I do practice slow tunes slow. 



 

BR5-49 - Posted - 08/14/2020:  19:49:32


Thanks Johnbow !

Johnbow - Posted - 08/15/2020:  14:06:49


Just a fan. :)

alaskafiddler - Posted - 08/16/2020:  00:42:08


BY slow I mean maybe 20 bpm or slower ..



One beat every three seconds??? Would timing, "in time" even matter? Could be wrong, but pretty sure that would defy any sensibility to the meaning of the music and rhythm; or even concept of "beat" and timing. I suspect something else is happening. IIRC something like 40bpm is the lowest end of cognition of beat/meter...  depending on the tune, possibly higher than that before a psycho-acoustic doubling shift phenomenon would happen.



Can you post an example??

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/16/2020:  05:39:01


quote:

Originally posted by alaskafiddler

BY slow I mean maybe 20 bpm or slower ..



One beat every three seconds??? Would timing, "in time" even matter? Could be wrong, but pretty sure that would defy any sensibility to the meaning of the music and rhythm; or even concept of "beat" and timing. I suspect something else is happening. IIRC something like 40bpm is the lowest end of cognition of beat/meter...  depending on the tune, possibly higher than that before a psycho-acoustic doubling shift phenomenon would happen.



Can you post an example??






The group may be missing my point.. I played that slowly primarily in areas where I wanted to SEE, visually, and Feel, what my bow hand was doing.. not just in making a bow stroke but  seeing and feeling if the Changes between bow direction were smooth and not jerky..not questionable.. There was not need to play the entire tune that slowly....I also have difficulty with timing if I try to play an entire tune that slow.. I was trying to work bow Kinks....Timing did NOT matter, but I just gave that number to indicate how slow I went in areas that I was working on.. Some parts of the tune offered no difficulty...but I still slowed those parts down enough to feel the 'dance' of my bow..  ?Comprendes?



 

buckhenry - Posted - 08/16/2020:  05:55:26


quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

Comprendes?


 






Yeah sure, but why not just practice long-slow bows on a scale...?

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/16/2020:  05:58:31


quote:

Originally posted by buckhenry

quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

Comprendes?


 






Yeah sure, but why not just practice long-slow bows on a scale...?






But why not ALSO practice SHORT SLOW bows where I need them ??smiley

tonyelder - Posted - 08/16/2020:  07:51:59


In my head, I hear what I think should be played, and I work it out at tempo - the note choices, the rhythm, accents, phrasing, and bowing. Then if I struggle with any of that - I might work on that part at a tempo where I can validate my choices. But I will always include playing the same passage at tempo during that practice session. 



FOR ME... learning a tune at an extremely slow tempo doesn't mean I will (or should) play it that same way at tempo. The bowing may not work as well, the accents are usually different, sometimes even the note selection might need to be different in a phrase.



But... if that's what it takes for some - and it works, then be encouraged.  



 


Edited by - tonyelder on 08/16/2020 07:52:53

ChickenMan - Posted - 08/16/2020:  08:20:50


Yes, I play SOME passages slowly IF there is a hitch in getting it 'right' at closer to dance speed. I also play long slow bows as needed to loosen my bowing arm.

I may, when refreshing my memory, play the tune slow-ish once before really playing it. I seldom play at the slow tempo that I hear where folks are saying it was a "hypnotic groove." I have no idea what bpm that would be, just that it is slower than I generally choose to play.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 08/16/2020:  08:23:50


quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver


?Comprendes?

 






Not really. Oh well.



In the comment of flow of a tune... I thought it was meant to be in context of sound like the tune, or at least musical.



I enjoy playing tunes slowly... I do encourage others in these exercises; but for maybe different reasons, not for technical reasons and control... but rather the opposite... help illustrate how it's not just notes and timing or letting composition and tempo do all the work...  but  the players input, breath, performance aspects and nuance, that make it expressive, give the type of feel, groove and flow.



edit,  The slow hypnotic groove is similar, great exercise... and the slower groove is harder for folks who just playing notes in time.



There is a similar concept in dance. Slower can be more difficult hard to keep in time; if it lacks  feel/sense of weight, balance, sway, flow.


Edited by - alaskafiddler on 08/16/2020 08:38:37

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/16/2020:  09:00:35


Sometimes ideas get lost in translation.. We can get lost in words/phrases and miss the big picture.........My big picture is "play as slowly as NEEDED, those parts the are not smooth, with focus on the 'dance' of the bow"...

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 08/16/2020:  09:28:55


When I was growing up, sometimes I would sit in the shade on a lazy summer afternoon when I felt half asleep and go ridiculously slowly just through a tune, maybe for an hour straight, the same tune. It was always very enlightening...I just learned so much doing that. I went back to it later as an adult in the efforts to gain the insights I'd gotten as a child doing that sort of thing...I mean SLOW...like, ridiculously so. No audience...they probably couldn't have named that tune...lol...it was so slow and I was letting it go where it wanted to go.

Then back with all the bowing discussions and such, I started trying to do that sort of thing when I got myself a fiddle at the age of 55...just, well, I had played a little bit of fiddle in my past here and there, just never had an instrument so I never got to work on it much...you can only borrow a fiddle for so many days at at time...lol...but anyway, at 55, I could at least pull the bow and make notes, so it wasn't learning from square one, but I was very interested in all the bowing whatevers and whichevers and the interplay between notes and bowing, etc. So i tried to sometimes duplicate that "state of strum," actually picking but what my old friends used to call it...played extremely slowly and just let stuff happen...I still don't like playing fast...you lose a lot of stuff when it's fast, although I know most people do like fast music. I don't want ridiculously slow music all the time, but I've learned I like it played slow because there seems to be more audible stuff going on when you keep it on the slow side, to me at least.

BR5-49 - Posted - 08/16/2020:  09:58:31


But isn't the topic kind of shifting from performance to practice? There may be a few bowing exercises apart from tunes I might practice sometimes, but if I'm playing/performing a tune for myself or others, I'm playing it to enjoy it and make it musical whether playing slow or fast.



From a practice standpoint... There is a time for slowing down things to learn, but playing fast requires playing fast. So practicing slow in order to play fast later can be a stumbling block.


Edited by - BR5-49 on 08/16/2020 10:00:53

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/16/2020:  10:13:36


quote:

Originally posted by ShawnCraver

But isn't the topic kind of shifting from performance to practice? There may be a few bowing exercises apart from tunes I might practice sometimes, but if I'm playing/performing a tune for myself or others, I'm playing it to enjoy it and make it musical whether playing slow or fast.



From a practice standpoint... There is a time for slowing down things to learn, but playing fast requires playing fast. So practicing slow in order to play fast later can be a stumbling block.






I supposed that I wasn't very clear in the OP.. I was playing slow because I wanted to see why I was having trouble playing fast/smooth... I kept going slower and slower while listening/feeling what my HAND was doing with the bow..looking for the reason I wasn't smooth when playing fast.. Once I discovered how to make it smooth I increased the speed with the newly discovered bow movements.. Does that make sense?  I wasn't trying to play a busking performance at that speed.. When passersby came along, I played much faster.. I only practiced when the sidewalk was quite..



Yes it is often difficult to describe what is happening if fast playing, and that is ok if the fast playing is 'working'.. In this case, it WASN"T and I needed to find out WHY..!!


Edited by - TuneWeaver on 08/16/2020 10:14:07

alaskafiddler - Posted - 08/16/2020:  11:04:19


Okay I think I get where you are going now...



Although I still am skeptical about going too slow and the idea of flow. I think there is a point of diminish return. Flow is to me, the continuity of a sequence. Like in dancing, there is kind of minimum point where it just looses any sense of flow... the same movement of whole body (knees, hips ankles); instead it just becomes individual step of feet.



playing fast requires playing fast. So practicing slow in order to play fast later can be a stumbling block.



I agree, some  folks get stuck in that kind of slow or lopey rut... their slow doesn't always translate the same needed to play fast. As matter of fact you can get by with pretty inefficient if slow enough. Really should be practicing the fast but in "slow motion" Paradox that you need to have experience of what playing fast feels like.  

Brian Wood - Posted - 08/16/2020:  11:57:18


quote:

Originally posted by alaskafiddler

Okay I think I get where you are going now...



Although I still am skeptical about going too slow and the idea of flow. I think there is a point of diminish return. Flow is to me, the continuity of a sequence. Like in dancing, there is kind of minimum point where it just looses any sense of flow... the same movement of whole body (knees, hips ankles); instead it just becomes individual step of feet.



playing fast requires playing fast. So practicing slow in order to play fast later can be a stumbling block.



I agree, some  folks get stuck in that kind of slow or lopey rut... their slow doesn't always translate the same needed to play fast. As matter of fact you can get by with pretty inefficient if slow enough. Really should be practicing the fast but in "slow motion" Paradox that you need to have experience of what playing fast feels like.  






I agree with everything here, and well put. I only play extra slow when I'm learning something and don't have it yet. Doing it for its own sake never made much sense to me although, obviously, it does to others.

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/16/2020:  12:54:57


The printed word can be SO hard to understand... Once, that 'famous' seer, Edgar Cayce, after having heard what the listeners said about one of his statements, said, "I read it out...and You read it in."... That happens often here on the Hangout.. just human nature, I guesswink

Brian Wood - Posted - 08/16/2020:  13:12:03


quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

The printed word can be SO hard to understand... Once, that 'famous' seer, Edgar Cayce, after having heard what the listeners said about one of his statements, said, "I read it out...and You read it in."... That happens often here on the Hangout.. just human nature, I guesswink






That's a rather mysterious statement. And I think using Edgar Cayce to illustrate a point about factual clarity is also mysterious.

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/16/2020:  13:15:23


quote:

Originally posted by Brian Wood

quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

The printed word can be SO hard to understand... Once, that 'famous' seer, Edgar Cayce, after having heard what the listeners said about one of his statements, said, "I read it out...and You read it in."... That happens often here on the Hangout.. just human nature, I guesswink  






That's a rather mysterious statement. And I think using Edgar Cayce to illustrate a point about factual clarity is also mysterious.






Well, remember, I'm not even using my real name here..(mysterious?)... and yes Cayce is controversial.. The drama builds...!!!!laugh He was saying that we tend to read into comments things that aren't there..!! I do it all the time..Actually, Truth Be Told, that is my Superpower..cheeky



 



 


Edited by - TuneWeaver on 08/16/2020 13:16:57

buckhenry - Posted - 08/16/2020:  17:16:08


quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

 


But why not ALSO practice SHORT SLOW bows where I need them ??smiley






Because the brain has better retention of information if aspects of technique are isolated in practice so that any particular technique can be played anywhere at any time you need it. 

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/16/2020:  17:18:16


OK..

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 08/16/2020:  19:18:07


I agree if you like to play fast you need to practice fast.

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/16/2020:  19:20:11


quote:

Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

I agree if you like to play fast you need to practice fast.






Hmmm.. BUt if you sound terrible playing fast, it is good to slow down, work out the kinks and then go fast again.. THAT is what i'm doing.. Others may take another technique.. 

Brian Wood - Posted - 08/16/2020:  20:13:11


quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Wood

quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

The printed word can be SO hard to understand... Once, that 'famous' seer, Edgar Cayce, after having heard what the listeners said about one of his statements, said, "I read it out...and You read it in."... That happens often here on the Hangout.. just human nature, I guesswink  






That's a rather mysterious statement. And I think using Edgar Cayce to illustrate a point about factual clarity is also mysterious.






Well, remember, I'm not even using my real name here..(mysterious?)... and yes Cayce is controversial.. The drama builds...!!!!laugh He was saying that we tend to read into comments things that aren't there..!! I do it all the time..Actually, Truth Be Told, that is my Superpower..cheeky



 



 






You're not really Lee? Oh no! Maybe I should get a pseudonym too. But I'd have to log out and come back, otherwise everybody'd know. It's true, I am no fan of metaphysics, but so what. Maybe I was Edgar Casey in my last life and I'm trying for different experiences this time so I'm in denial. Time for a beer.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 08/17/2020:  05:17:05


Hmmm... I really am groundhogpeggy...says so on my birth certificate...I mean, if I did have one, it would say that.

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/17/2020:  15:09:02


So.. If any of you NEEDED $1,000 dollars, and if Someone was to tell you that they'd GIVE you $1,000..if you would take one of your fastest tunes, and put your playing on PAPER showing Bow movement.. What would you do? How slow would have to play in order to see what you do with your bow ...!!? (Just a fun thought)...( this could be a whole new topic,... but that takes too much effort..laugh

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/17/2020:  15:40:47


quote:

Originally posted by Brian Wood

quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Wood

quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

The printed word can be SO hard to understand... Once, that 'famous' seer, Edgar Cayce, after having heard what the listeners said about one of his statements, said, "I read it out...and You read it in."... That happens often here on the Hangout.. just human nature, I guesswink  






That's a rather mysterious statement. And I think using Edgar Cayce to illustrate a point about factual clarity is also mysterious.






Well, remember, I'm not even using my real name here..(mysterious?)... and yes Cayce is controversial.. The drama builds...!!!!laugh He was saying that we tend to read into comments things that aren't there..!! I do it all the time..Actually, Truth Be Told, that is my Superpower..cheeky



 



 






You're not really Lee? Oh no! Maybe I should get a pseudonym too. But I'd have to log out and come back, otherwise everybody'd know. It's true, I am no fan of metaphysics, but so what. Maybe I was Edgar Casey in my last life and I'm trying for different experiences this time so I'm in denial. Time for a beer.






Sorry, Brian, my real name is LeRoy...truth be told..and HERE on the Hangout is the reveal...Just as a side note,....I just returned from a visit to Columbia, Missouri.. I couldn't help but to notice that right across the street from their  public library was a  SCHOOL of METAPHYSICS.... one can only wonder what type of Everywhichway fiddling they teach there!!



 



 


Edited by - TuneWeaver on 08/17/2020 15:45:06

Brian Wood - Posted - 08/17/2020:  15:46:31


quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

So.. If any of you NEEDED $1,000 dollars, and if Someone was to tell you that they'd GIVE you $1,000..if you would take one of your fastest tunes, and put your playing on PAPER showing Bow movement.. What would you do? How slow would have to play in order to see what you do with your bow ...!!? (Just a fun thought)...( this could be a whole new topic,... but that takes too much effort..laugh






I'd do it for that. Heck, I'd do it for nothing if I was in the mood. I write the notes all the time but seldom make bowing suggestions on anything I transcribe. Bowing is important, but my bowing usually finds its own way, and I just let it. If I did it I wouldn't have to slow down too much I don't think. On the occasion when I do have a bowing issue I slow down quite a bit because I have to decide how I'm going to change what I'm doing, and remember it from then on.

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/17/2020:  15:50:02


quote:

Originally posted by Brian Wood

quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

So.. If any of you NEEDED $1,000 dollars, and if Someone was to tell you that they'd GIVE you $1,000..if you would take one of your fastest tunes, and put your playing on PAPER showing Bow movement.. What would you do? How slow would have to play in order to see what you do with your bow ...!!? (Just a fun thought)...( this could be a whole new topic,... but that takes too much effort..laugh






I'd do it for that. Heck, I'd do it for nothing if I was in the mood. I write the notes all the time but seldom make bowing suggestions on anything I transcribe. Bowing is important, but my bowing usually finds its own way, and I just let it. If I did it I wouldn't have to slow down too much I don't think. On the occasion when I do have a bowing issue I slow down quite a bit because I have to decide how I'm going to change what I'm doing, and remember it from then on.






EXACTLY.. Bowing seems easy until we have to SHOW it...It has always bugged me that sheet music always tends to show the notes but not the BOWING, which is really the most important thing..



 

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/17/2020:  16:06:46


I never could understand that.

Brian Wood - Posted - 08/17/2020:  16:53:51


quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

I never could understand that.






Actually, I understand why sheet music leaves out bowing for the most part. It's because bowing isn't especially crucial to the tune as long as you have basic skills from which to play. Trying to read bowing marks really slows me down. TMI for me. Except, as I said, for little places occasionally that get me. But what gets me wouldn't likely be what gets anybody else. It's personal, so I almost never mark up sheet music I'm sharing.

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/17/2020:  17:17:39


There is a balance.. Often, really, students would come to me with their fiddle book and I'd have to put in pencil bowing suggestions.. Slurs.. Then, they'd play it and say that it finally sounds like fiddling. For experienced fiddlers, they can figure out the bowing without the slurs showing, but for BEGINNERS, the slurs make a difference.. As I ALWAYS say.. '" it depends on the fiddler"... some need to see the bowing, and some can figure it out for themselves..............

buckhenry - Posted - 08/17/2020:  18:17:10


quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

sheet music always tends to show the notes but not the BOWING, which is really the most important thing..


 






I don't think the bowing has the most importance because the notes are how the tune goes. Those notes can be interpreted with many different bowings, and to include them would clutter the sheet music.  All the 'fiddle tune books' I've seen don't have marked bowings because it's assumed that the player has some knowledge of the simple/basic bowings. However, in 'beginner fiddle books' the (basic) bowings are always marked to facilitate the learning process. 



Some studies for violin have the bowing variations marked separately from the actual exercise to avoid the clutter. In 'Kayser.op 20, book 1' the marked bowings can be labeled as... chain bowing, hook stroke, single shuffle and reversed, and the Georgia bow which I call 'three in one bow and one in the other stroke', beginning up or down, on or off the beat, and reversed. That's about all the bowings which exist in folk fiddling, all in a 'elementary violin studies book'. 



 



 

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 08/18/2020:  04:30:50


I like the interplay of notes plus bowing, in my own attempts at fiddling. I am willing to sacrifice notes for the sake of cool bowing...as Dwight Diller says..."Don't let the left hand be the boss." Just sorta drop the notes down into the right hand groove however they can sift down through. I know a lot of people disagree with that whole idea, but it's what I personally like to try to go for when I play...for whatever that's worth. I didn't exactly learn the concept from Dwight, but learned that I aspired to it from Dwight...he was sorta the "pogo" who could parse it out enough for me to find enough words to be able to think about it and explore it more, knowing what it was I was exploring and trying to do. Of course we didn't agree on how to go about that on the fiddle...lol...but the concept is the same and the end result should be too. The road you take might be different than another fiddler. Just my 2 cents. I won't charge today.

TuneWeaver - Posted - 08/18/2020:  04:36:44


quote:

Originally posted by buckhenry

quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

sheet music always tends to show the notes but not the BOWING, which is really the most important thing..


 






I don't think the bowing has the most importance because the notes are how the tune goes. Those notes can be interpreted with many different bowings, and to include them would clutter the sheet music.  All the 'fiddle tune books' I've seen don't have marked bowings because it's assumed that the player has some knowledge of the simple/basic bowings. However, in 'beginner fiddle books' the (basic) bowings are always marked to facilitate the learning process. 



Some studies for violin have the bowing variations marked separately from the actual exercise to avoid the clutter. In 'Kayser.op 20, book 1' the marked bowings can be labeled as... chain bowing, hook stroke, single shuffle and reversed, and the Georgia bow which I call 'three in one bow and one in the other stroke', beginning up or down, on or off the beat, and reversed. That's about all the bowings which exist in folk fiddling, all in a 'elementary violin studies book'. 



 



 






I have been known to read about the bowing in fiddle books when I was learning but at that time I just couldn't understand it..no teacher and no skill..!! and you are right, it does seem to be assumed that musicians can figure out their own bowing but my observation is that many Can't... 

old cowboy - Posted - 04/14/2021:  19:42:52


I do not care for playing a tune faster than it was meant to be played. For instance, most people think the faster you play a song the better. Take Old Joe Clark for example. Most fiddlers want to play way faster than it was meant to be played. In my opinion it sounds so much better at the right tempo.

ChickenMan - Posted - 04/15/2021:  08:26:33


quote:

Originally posted by TuneWeaver

So.. take one of your fastest tunes, and put your playing on PAPER showing Bow movement.. What would you do? How slow would have to play in order to see what you do with your bow ...!!? 






When I slow down, I bow it a totally different way - I've tried. Tempo changes what I do/how I think (or don't think) about it. 

Page: 1  2  

Hide these ads: join the Players Union!

Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

6.298828E-02